Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #126

[katydid23]

I am more of the opinion that he was leaving by the time that the father came looking for them. I can't image anyone lingering after having done this.

I will have to check the timeline again. IIRC, there wasn't a whole lot of time between them walking down from the bridge, and the father arriving to pick them up. He began calling her cell before he pulled into the lot.

I think it took awhile for the perp to walk them both down the hill, go across the water[if they did it that way] , kill both of them, stage the remains, and then make his exit.

I think that was a pretty tight window. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

MOO I doubt the photo depicts anything other than where the girls, and the murderer(s), scrambled up the bank, thence to the CS.

I call this photo “Siberian meteorite”. A huge impact pit, one fallen tree looking away from the center, another probably would look the same way, but was not captured. It can not be quite “natural” - I.e. it is not soil erosion, given the way the trees are lying. Either they were pulled out with force, or indeed something big hit the area from above. MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

I will have to check the timeline again. IIRC, there wasn't a whole lot of time between them walking down from the bridge, and the father arriving to pick them up. He began calling her cell before he pulled into the lot.

I think it took awhile for the perp to walk them both down the hill, go across the water[if they did it that way] , kill both of them, stage the remains, and then make his exit.

I think that was a pretty tight window. JMO

OK my post was removed because I was reporting hearsay. So, I am linking the article with Anna Williams’ words.

Chilling evidence left on killed teen’s phone


“It's a very tough situation to live with, and we have a very small, tight-knit community and to think that this person is still right there in our own back yard is overwhelmingly horrible," said Abby's mother, Anna Williams.

She knows her daughter would not have gone quietly.

"If she was going to go down the hill, it would have had to been, like, super-forcing her to go down the hill," she said.

"She would have tried to fight back or something if he didn't."”


Not only is it a tight window. Here, Anna says her daughter would not go down that hill without the fight.

So - supported by an article from Northernstar - if Anna says her daughter did not go down the hill meekly, how high is the chance of no one around hearing the sounds of some struggle? Winter, people around, on the trails, daytime, tiny plot of land?

 

[Charlot123]

BG knew that bridge, and those woods, he'd been there before.

BG was in those woods early that day. He was prepared. He may have even prepared the kill site.

BG stalked these two girls, he watched them cross that bridge, and he followed them.

BG knew there was nobody around.

BG confronted the two girls, and threatened to kill them if they made even the slightest sound.

BG forced them down that hill, across the lane, through the woods, across that creek, to the kill site, and murdered them there.

BG walked out of those woods shortly thereafter, and drove away.

LE doesn't know who BG is. OR, they do know who he is, but don't have enough definitive evidence to convict him in a court of law.

That's how I see it, this evening.

All of it seems to be the official version, my question is, how did he know there was nobody around? He can look around to see that no one is on the bridge, but how can he know that no one in the houses above the bridge is at home? This is not something anyone can bet on, right? MOO

 

[Ozoner]

All of it seems to be the official version, my question is, how did he know there was nobody around? He can look around to see that no one is on the bridge, but how can he know that no one in the houses above the bridge is at home? This is not something anyone can bet on, right? MOO

Psychopaths have very low anxiety. He probably wasn't too worried about anyone seeing him. Countless people witnessed Ted Bundy during his abductions; he didn't care. BG may have been the same way.

 

[Charlot123]

Psychopaths have very low anxiety. He probably wasn't too worried about anyone seeing him. Countless people witnessed Ted Bundy during his abductions; he didn't care. BG may have been the same way.

Are we dealing with Ted Bundy? Because TB was a serial killer. Tobe Leazenby said people of Delphi should not be concerned because the crime was limited to victims? I need to understand, serial killer, or not. ETA: sorry, the public needs to know...

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Psychopaths have very low anxiety. He probably wasn't too worried about anyone seeing him. Countless people witnessed Ted Bundy during his abductions; he didn't care. BG may have been the same way.

I think this is absolutely right!

 

[Charlot123]

So, maybe Abby/Libby were stalked (?), but unknown victims of someone, who had the urge for a thrill-kill to let off steam. In addition, maybe he had the urge to produce crime news again in "high quality" (mysterious) with much public interest.
IMO - speculation

Oh no, I for my part never thought of a journalist/reporter, whose job it is, to present a story or photos. I'm far from it!

I agree with you in this. I slightly doubt if the goal was “for shock value”, because with different LE, he might have been caught fast, and then, no shock value. I presume...

What I mean to say, if you want the case to go down in the annals of true crime as something shocking, you need to be either take by the quantity (GRK), or by the personality of the killer (Bundy - handsome and educated), or by the daring case that is never solved. In the last case, you have to know that you are playing against weaker opponents.

And how would one know it, unless he knows, and well, the LE in this area? Any group follows Bell curve. You can run into someone super smart, or the opposite, but most likely, someone towards the mean. How do you know that your nemesis will be unable to solve this case?

I wonder if BG plays chess, or any other game where knowledge of one’s adversary is important.
MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

I am more of the opinion that he was leaving by the time that the father came looking for them. I can't image anyone lingering after having done this.

Again, depending on how well he knows the father, his strengths and weaknesses. This is why I think, he has to be local, or else, closely know one of the girls. MOO,

 

[Justice101]

All of it seems to be the official version, my question is, how did he know there was nobody around? He can look around to see that no one is on the bridge, but how can he know that no one in the houses above the bridge is at home? This is not something anyone can bet on, right? MOO

Looking at a video on YouTube someone was re-enacting, there was not a clear line of sight to any of the houses on the south bank of the river. The elevation at that point is flat and there were many tree trunk obstructing in between.

Once they went down the gravel bank from the rail road ties, the drop obscures line of sight from houses even more. The only real fear he would have of being seen was from someone on the gravel road/driveway directly below the bridge and he could have glanced left and right when he was right over top that walking towards the girls.

Again, this is why I think this was a planned location based on a smart person casing the area and minimizing the chances of being caught.

 

[minazoe]

I am of the inclination to believe the girls may have been stalked for several days..

someone who scoped out the girls, found out where they lived, found their face book, followed them around, followed to the park, waited for his break. as some have said, he may have known in advance and just waited for them to show up and waited until they hit
that bridge.

I honestly think that if he had just shown up and it was random..he would have been sitting there for several days waiting for a victim and someone would have noticed. What are the odds that this single perpetrator has so much luck..to find his victims during a span of an hour or two...would do this out in the open and not be heard, to have his picture left at the scene and his voice, yet still...not caught....

I don't believe he was that lucky..he was prepared...totally equipped as you can see inside his clothing. mOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

Are we dealing with Ted Bundy? Because TB was a serial killer. Tobe Leazenby said people of Delphi should not be concerned because the crime was limited to victims? I need to understand, serial killer, or not. ETA: sorry, the public needs to know...

I believe that Leazenby made that statement shortly after the girls had been found?
The reason for making that statement are up for debate- BUT,
it is probable for one to assume that at that time, they believed that this was a homicide that would be solved rapidly because of the evidence on hand AND/ OR they assumed it would be an individual known or acquainted with the victims.
Remember , the FBI was active in the investigation quite early on-I would assume this reinforced local LE's assumption that the crime would be solved very quickly.
AMOO JMO MOO

 

[dub]

Psychopaths have very low anxiety. He probably wasn't too worried about anyone seeing him. Countless people witnessed Ted Bundy during his abductions; he didn't care. BG may have been the same way.

This is at least generally (and maybe almost entirely) true of psychopaths, but just because they don't experience "anxiety" like normal people doesn't mean they don't have a certain level of risk aversion within their MO's.

I agree with you that Bundy is a good example of a psychopath who also had a low level of risk aversion, but Israel Keyes for example, at least from what's known of his crimes, seems to have had a very high level of risk aversion in the commission of his murders up until his last known one.

Also, as one's "methods" become more refined, their level of risk aversion may shift over time. With Keyes for sure, and probably Bundy as well (although I don't know as much about him), their risk aversion seems to have decreased over time.

I'd guess this is the more common direction for one to shift, but some, like the GSK, I'd argue became MORE risk averse as their criminality progressed. And Ridgeway, with as many murders as he committed, doesn't seem to have shifted really at all and falls right smack in the center of what I'd consider "medium-risk", although this may be because he was dumb as a box of rocks.

I guess this doesn't really help us in reference to the BG either way, because since we don't know who he is, he could fall anywhere on this spectrum, and whether or not a "shift" took place is impossible to say without knowledge of prior crimes or lack thereof. Just food for thought, and something your post made me think about.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Again, depending on how well he knows the father, his strengths and weaknesses. This is why I think, he has to be local, or else, closely know one of the girls. MOO,

I would agree with the opinion that he is or was local . It is hard to believe that he had no familiarity with this area.
I disagree that he closely knew either girl.
AW has stated that either, or both girls , would have made that known in the audio.

AMOO JMO MOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I am of the inclination to believe the girls may have been stalked for several days..

someone who scoped out the girls, found out where they lived, found their face book, followed them around, followed to the park, waited for his break. as some have said, he may have known in advance and just waited for them to show up and waited until they hit
that bridge.

I honestly think that if he had just shown up and it was random..he would have been sitting there for several days waiting for a victim and someone would have noticed. What are the odds that this single perpetrator has so much luck..to find his victims during a span of an hour or two...would do this out in the open and not be heard, to have his picture left at the scene and his voice, yet still...not caught....

I don't believe he was that lucky..he was prepared...totally equipped as you can see inside his clothing. mOO

I would also like to say, that DC, on more than one occasion has stated that he believes that the killer will do this again if not caught.
I would infer from that statement that there is a hint of a possible SK in the making.
Of course, that is my interpretation.

AMOO MOO JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I would like to add this, here , as it is directly from The Indiana State Police:

Delphi, Indiana - In the early days and months of the Delphi Murder investigation information was developed about suspect descriptions. It was initially believed the sketch that has been in public view over the last two years of a person in the age range of his 40’s to 50’s was a person of interest in this murder investigation. Now, as the investigation has matured and past information has been reassessed, it is the belief of investigators with the Multi-Agency Task Force that the person depicted in the sketch released on April 22nd more accurately represents the person wanted for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

It is important to distinguish these points about the two sketches:

• They are not the same person
• The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation
• The sketch released on April 22nd is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge
• The person in the sketch released April 22nd is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20’s to late 30’s
• This person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch

Members of the Delphi community should reflect back on people they know in the community that look similar to the sketch released on April 22nd, especially if that person has changed their appearance since the murders occurred in February of 2017.

###
It is titled this way:
Multi-Agency Taskforce Clarifies Points about the Delphi Murder Suspect Sketches
Indiana State Police sent this bulletin at 04/24/2019 02:19 PM EDT

Just some more information for all of us to consider.

AMOO JMO MOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I would like to add this, here , as it is directly from The Indiana State Police:

Delphi, Indiana - In the early days and months of the Delphi Murder investigation information was developed about suspect descriptions. It was initially believed the sketch that has been in public view over the last two years of a person in the age range of his 40’s to 50’s was a person of interest in this murder investigation. Now, as the investigation has matured and past information has been reassessed, it is the belief of investigators with the Multi-Agency Task Force that the person depicted in the sketch released on April 22nd more accurately represents the person wanted for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

It is important to distinguish these points about the two sketches:

• They are not the same person
• The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation
• The sketch released on April 22nd is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge
• The person in the sketch released April 22nd is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20’s to late 30’s
• This person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch

Members of the Delphi community should reflect back on people they know in the community that look similar to the sketch released on April 22nd, especially if that person has changed their appearance since the murders occurred in February of 2017.

###
It is titled this way:
Multi-Agency Taskforce Clarifies Points about the Delphi Murder Suspect Sketches
Indiana State Police sent this bulletin at 04/24/2019 02:19 PM EDT

Just some more information for all of us to consider.

AMOO JMO MOO

I would like to add that this goes along with somethings that AW stated a couple of nights ago in her interview.

AMOO JMO MOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

All of it seems to be the official version, my question is, how did he know there was nobody around? He can look around to see that no one is on the bridge, but how can he know that no one in the houses above the bridge is at home? This is not something anyone can bet on, right? MOO

I speculate he had first hand knowledge the homeowners wouldn’t be present. Further, and somewhat of a fringe theory, he could have had an accomplice/scout in a deer stand keeping watch for anyone approaching.

Opinion and speculation only

 

[rosesfromangels]

I would agree with the opinion that he is or was local . It is hard to believe that he had no familiarity with this area.
I disagree that he closely knew either girl.
AW has stated that either, or both girls , would have made that known in the audio.

AMOO JMO MOO

However, they might have known him through a loose connection, but unable to place/identify him out of context to his normal setting.

opinion and speculation only

 

[JnRyan]

I would agree with the opinion that he is or was local . It is hard to believe that he had no familiarity with this area.
I disagree that he closely knew either girl.
AW has stated that either, or both girls , would have made that known in the audio.

AMOO JMO MOO

I agree with that and the key word for me is 'closely'. I tend to believe this a chance encounter, i.e, he had not seen the girls prior to that day. If he did know the girls at all, I simply believe he had seen them somewhere before that day in a store, a restaurant or other such place. IOW, he was aware of them, but the girls were not aware of him. While that is possible, I don't believe there is a strong possibility he had seen them before that day on the trails.

Of course, I am also of the opinion that while this guy does have very good knowledge of the trail I believe that is sometime in his past and he doesn't currently live locally and didn't live locally at the time of the killings. And if that turns out to be the case, then the chance he had seen the girls prior to the day of the murders is low.