Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[wary]

No one assumes that there was a puppy. But I sometimes wonder if the perp has a weird sense of humor, you know? The issue of the puppy pops up periodically everywhere, so one wonders if it is a very bad joke.

Well, we have posters here who assume that there was an animal under his jacket. Don’t know if they think it was a puppy specifically.

 

[TTF14]

That posture is also that has caught my eye. Our family has a medical condition Scoliosis that can cause one shoulder to drop and the leg on that side to be a bit longer and also contributes to posture issues, my daughters was so bad that when she was 13 she looked visibly different, once she had her back surgery it was not nearly as easy to see. So there are medical conditions that could case posture as well as gait issues regardless of age.

I wonder if they've had a chiropractor evaluate the videos and photos. I'm always amazing at the minute changes my chiropractor can notice in terms of symmetry in bodies, posture, etc. He's pointed it out to me in my own children and once it is pointed out, you're like "oh yeah, I see that...." They can pinpoint what part of your body is "not ok" just by posture, gait, etc.

Worth a shot.

 

[Yemelyan]

You make good points. Bolded by me, for focus on one point. ISP DB has said, at least twice, that it is just an assumption that the person depicted on the bridge is the person in the audio clips. It’s also been officially said of the person depicted that they at least played a role, if not the killer. So his role may have been to create a distraction, lure, ambush, etc. We all can only opine, without more specific facts. MOO

Are you talking in the bolded part above about the opinions of former ISP information officer, Dave Bursten?

How do you reconcile your opinion that it is just an assumption that the person in the video of the man on the bridge is the same as the man speaking in the audio when we were told this statement in the most recent press conference (this is verbatim but bolded by me): Please keep in mind the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is NOT two different people speaking- please listen to it very, very carefully.

 

[Charlot123]

Well, we have posters here who assume that there was an animal under his jacket. Don’t know if they think it was a puppy specifically.

i think it started a while ago, and initially it was a farm animal (a goat, etc). It was linked to his odd scarf and also, to the way the jacket moved in the loop. But a dog is too specific. It pops up with amazing periodicity.

 

[MistyWaters]

Are you talking in the bolded part above about the opinions of former ISP information officer, Dave Bursten?

How do you reconcile your opinion that it is just an assumption that the person in the video of the man on the bridge is the same as the man speaking in the audio when we were told this statement in the most recent press conference (this is verbatim but bolded by me): Please keep in mind the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is NOT two different people speaking- please listen to it very, very carefully.

Yes, that all the audio released and the photo/video involved the same person was emphatically expressed at that last PC. Prior to that there was some debate, the reason I’d assume DC took the opportunity to clarify the point. I’m certain it doesn’t matter to LE in receiving that one tip they hope for, if the provider of it believes the photo seems more accurate than the audio or vice versa. The quality of neither is 100% clarity.

Delphi Murders: ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Libby & Abby’s killer
“Indiana State Police released never-before-seen video of the "bridge guy" that was taken by Liberty German on the day that she died. That video shows the suspect walking along the bridge.

“When you see the video, watch the person’s mannerisms as they walk,” ISP Supt. Doug Carter said. “Do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might know?”

Carter says because of where the man is walking and the deterioration of the bridge the suspect is not walking naturally because of the spacing between the ties.

An additional clip of audio from the same man has also been released. The new clip includes the word before the previously released version which only stated down the hill.

The new audio clip is a slightly extended version of the original, which was released days after the girls were murdered and includes the word "Guys" followed by "Down the Hill."

"Please keep in mind that the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls" Carter said. "This is not two people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully."....”

 

[MistyWaters]

i think it started a while ago, and initially it was a farm animal (a goat, etc). It was linked to his odd scarf and also, to the way the jacket moved in the loop. But a dog is too specific. It pops up with amazing periodicity.

The white things look like white ties on a hoodie blowing in the wind to me. The goat suggestion was made by somebody only in jest iirc.

 

[girlfriday]

Yes, that all the audio released and the photo/video involved the same person was emphatically expressed at that last PC. Prior to that there was some debate, the reason I’d assume DC took the opportunity to clarify the point. I’m certain it doesn’t matter to LE in receiving that one tip they hope for, if the provider of it believes the photo seems more accurate than the audio or vice versa. The quality of neither is 100% clarity.

Delphi Murders: ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Libby & Abby’s killer
“Indiana State Police released never-before-seen video of the "bridge guy" that was taken by Liberty German on the day that she died. That video shows the suspect walking along the bridge.

“When you see the video, watch the person’s mannerisms as they walk,” ISP Supt. Doug Carter said. “Do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might know?”

Carter says because of where the man is walking and the deterioration of the bridge the suspect is not walking naturally because of the spacing between the ties.

An additional clip of audio from the same man has also been released. The new clip includes the word before the previously released version which only stated down the hill.

The new audio clip is a slightly extended version of the original, which was released days after the girls were murdered and includes the word "Guys" followed by "Down the Hill."

"Please keep in mind that the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls" Carter said. "This is not two people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully."....”

I agree with this, although that may not make sense, with how what I’ve said is being interpreted. I feel confident that it will be, when this case is at a point where the twist and complicated situation is revealed. I respect your opinion too.

 

[Ozoner]

WOW! Did they find the impersonator? These days the DNA in the car and in the house would be telling.

However, this is exactly the situation when a father-son, or two lookalike brothers, could pull it. Same clothes, a profile in the car, certain height...

The husband was convicted of murder, so I think they found the impersonator. (I don't think the impersonator knew that his duties were meant to provide an alibi for murder.)
I saw the case on one of those exposé or true-crime shows a decade or two ago (FBI Files, Forensic Files, Dateline, 20/20 . . . I can't remember which one).

 

[Charlot123]

BBM part - I don't know if you mean the killer or a family member/friend who could ID the killer. But that brings up a thought that had not occurred to me before - what if there aren't any crimes similar since then because the killer himself is dead. Suicide, car accident or even Covid-19 are possibilities. When LE found out that the murderer of Genevieve Zitricki in SC (1990), rapist of 14 yo girl in Memphis (1997) and the murderer of Sherri and Megan Scherer in Portageville MO (1998) were the same person based on the DNA a lot of us wondered why the murderer was not tied to any other crimes since 1998. When GEDmatch made the identification in 2018, it was discovered that the person, Robert Brashears, committed suicide in 1999 when he was stopped by LE for driving with stolen tags on his vehicle. If this killer here committed suicide I wonder if LE or the medical examiner would obtain a DNA sample. They most likely wouldn't with a car accident or a Covid-19 death.

At least it is possible to obtain certain issues from which DNA issues could be lifted.

I sometimes wonder if this loser and coward comes on here as a guest and reads our posts. I certainly hope he read this post. To the coward, if you're out there reading this, when your day comes - and it is coming - you'll be sitting in your jail cell whimpering and wetting yourself.

I think he once couldn’t keep himself from posting, you know? Something very pristine.

 

[Kimmer]

Something just hit me, we see the BG photo, we hear BG voice, we also know the audio is much longer than we have heard. What if in that audio there is a second male voice? Therefore after having the audio cleaned up LE was able to go back thru leads and come up with the second sketch. Maybe they know for sure there were 2 Men but everyone is wondering if it is either one or the other when LE may have concrete proof that it was both.

 

[minazoe]

no one assumed it was a puppy under his coat, we simply wondered if it could be because it looks as though he has somethings other than the norm in his coat. No one said what you are saying.

I simply wondered if a possible third party could have been attached somehow to the puppy they played with that day and if that could be a lead that might have been overlooked.

it was an idea that has little or no effect on the actual case or discussions here about what could or could not have happened.

any possible 3rd party that had any or could have had any outside contact with Abby and Libby in the days preceding their murders need to be looked at and well checked . mOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

So, could one conclude, based on what appears to be a rendering of possibilities #2, and #3 being ruled out, that LE in this case simply do not know who the killer is, and the 'last piece' they seek if simply for someone to come to them with the identity of the killer?

If not, then what else could that 'last piece' of the puzzle be?

Last piece would be, to "nail" the suspected person to the crime scene area at certain o'clock on February 13th, 2017. Or to the parked car at the CPS building, if the car is important. IMO

 

[LuluQ]

This is an amazingly sharp observation. While the gait might be just the loop, short neck and some asymmetry of the shoulders, even arms, might be emphasized by the jacket.

That posture is also something that has caught my eye. Our family has a medical condition Scoliosis that can cause one shoulder to drop and the leg on that side to be a bit longer and also contributes to posture issues, my daughters was so bad that when she was 13 she looked visibly different, once she had her back surgery it was not nearly as easy to see. So there are medical conditions that could case posture as well as gait issues regardless of age.

 

[LuluQ]

Last piece would be, to "nail" the suspected person to the crime scene area at certain o'clock on February 13th, 2017. Or to the parked car at the CPS building, if the car is important. IMO

My daughter had the same surgery, her gait was very lop sided too. It’s still not 100% but definitely one shoulder higher.

 

[Kimmer]

Welcome to our crazy loving crime fighting family.

 

[Yemelyan]

i think it started a while ago, and initially it was a farm animal (a goat, etc). It was linked to his odd scarf and also, to the way the jacket moved in the loop. But a dog is too specific. It pops up with amazing periodicity.

The dog pops up with regularity because at one time there was a particular poster on this board (also present on many others devoted to discussing the Delphi case) who constantly trolled with posts about a dog - and a goat - inside the coat.

So if any of us seem unaccepting of theories that center on dogs as lures/dogs in coats, it could be that we've been around since the beginning and remember the times when the board was overrun with troll posts on this subject.

For the record, I don't think there was an animal concealed in his coat.

I don't know what type of ruse he used but I doubt it was a puppy, I think he produced a weapon instead.

And finally, it is a definite possibility that animal hair may have been recovered from the crime scene and is part of that large amount of evidence that should logically lead to a particular person but hasn't yet.

 

[Charlot123]

Last piece would be, to "nail" the suspected person to the crime scene area at certain o'clock on February 13th, 2017. Or to the parked car at the CPS building, if the car is important. IMO

In other world, to blow up his alibi?

In principle, it is possible, to go through every word, even travel step-by-step, and see what was missed, or did not match. It depends on the alibi, but LE should not hope that the perp’s relatives might suddenly have conscience, you know?

I just thought, if the family is religious, they may think that he is lost in afterlife, and be willing to protect his life in this world, at least.

But with alibis, maybe even after 3 years, there is a way to make holes in the story?

 

[Laughing]

I remember participating in the Baby Goat Diversion.

Folks, you really need to keep children busy or things go south in a hurry.

Without additional information from LE, well, we tend to veer off path.

We struggle & strain & grasp at anything at all to see the path to justice for these two beautiful girls!

Justice for Abby & Libby!

image from freepik.com

 

[JnRyan]

The car parked at the abandoned CPS building came up in the April 2019 PC and I've yet to hear it mentioned by LE in the past year. I could have sworn I heard the former ISP spokesperson, Sgt Kim Riley, being interviewed and stating something to the effect that they had moved on from that but said he couldn't comment on why because of the ongoing investigation. I wish I had saved it and posted in the media thread because now I can't find it. In any event, it doesn't come up any more when LE covers the case.

 

[MistyWaters]

The car parked at the abandoned CPS building came up in the April 2019 PC and I've yet to hear it mentioned by LE in the past year. I could have sworn I heard the former ISP spokesperson, Sgt Kim Riley, being interviewed and stating something to the effect that they had moved on from that but said he couldn't comment on why because of the ongoing investigation. I wish I had saved it and posted in the media thread because now I can't find it. In any event, it doesn't come up any more when LE covers the case.

During the April, 2019 PC, Carter never actually stated the parked car from noon to 5pm was believed to be directly connected to the suspect or the crime, although many people assumed it must’ve been because it was mentioned during the same PC as the New Direction.

The actual snip of him speaking has been linked here many times already and sorry, I don’t have it at hand but he asked the driver to please contact the Delphi police dept.

Based on that I’ve always thought this was a person who had provided an earlier tip and LE was having difficulty contacting him or her for some type of follow-up or further information regarding that tip.

It’d be highly unlikely Carter would expect the killer to contact LE.

Revisiting early tips by LE has been mentioned several times and not everyone keeps their contact/registration/DL info up to date or maybe it was recorded incorrectly at the onset. JMO