Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[Matthoughton]

also in the interest of accuracy, has it ever been confirmed BG said "Guys, down the hill"? I thought Carter said its not necessarily exactly how it was said and there may have been other sound between the guys and the down the hill. Thats always given me the impression that they are part of two different sentences/exchanges. IMO

does sound like it’s two different sentences just it came across from some people like it was a singular sentence, although I’ve been reading random threads/the scanner in an attempt to catch up (might of just been a theory I read here early on and it stuck for some weird reason)

 

[Charlot123]

The biggest problem is, there are plenty of copycat cases. I wanted to post one link to a string of cases near a city in Europe (huge time gaps between the killings, attacking couples, certain day of the week, some PM activity, no sexual actions whatsoever but likely, sexual motivation), but i am afraid that even this could be the trigger for somebody. But the ones who can read between the lines....Delphi make me wonder if the killer was copying that European case. The psychological portrait of that alleged killer is interesting.

 

[Ozoner]

I just feel that it was not a random hit, that he/they targeted one of the girls. I don't know why, and I am not quite sure who was the principal target (my intuitive guess would be, Libby, but it is mostly based on her having more direct access to SM and having more gadgets), and it could have been so that he was just looking for a convenient moment. My logic: if the decision to go to MHB was made at the last moment, and the girls were not a random hit, then he was probably following them for a while, waiting for this moment. My personal feeling, I have no way to prove, or disprove, it. As to evidence, does any of us have more than was officially revealed?

BBM

No, which is why the evidence that's been officially revealed should be the starting point for any theories set forth.

There's evidence that BG did not know the girls' names—i.e., he did not address them by name even though doing so would have helped gain their compliance—so if you're going to suggest that he tracked them for a few days, you'll need to come up with a plausible theory on how he could track them without knowing their names.

Quite a bit of evidence has been presented indicating that BG is likely a trail killer, none of whom have ever targeted specific victims in advance. All of the known trail killers mentioned in discussions about this case have staked out trails and simply victimized whatever people happened to come along (often without being overly particular about age, sex, race, etc.).

You're free to propose any theory you wish, but if you're going to present a theory that seems to actually run counter to the known evidence, you should be prepared to counter the evidence that points to BG's being a trail killer.

For instance, BG seems to be somewhat familiar with the area around Monon High Bridge. Did he track the girls for a few days and manage to familiarize himself with that trail despite not knowing when or if the girls would go there? How did he manage to familiarize himself with the trail system and prepare for the attack while tracking the girls at the same time? That reminds me of the storyline in one of the Harry Potter books where Hermione magically creates two of herself so that she can take twice as many classes. It doesn't seem possible that BG could have done that. It doesn't add up.

 

[minazoe]

it seems unlikely that BG went there to commit one crime like exposing himself..and yet was also prepared with god knows what all in his jacket including the obvious gun to commit double murder . We don't even know what possible oddities and signatures he left for LE, were there bindings? was there a note? Knots? wearing clothes? naked? are they posed? what happened to these girls?

There is not enough interest in this story. and people aren't connecting to it the way they did with cases that got more out there with the evidence..maybe they should release something salacious to bring attention..maybe it would be worth it.

Of course the killer would enjoy it no end..so that would suck but... they need to smoke him out. they need to get people to stop and look at BG .

I hate to say it , but Nancy Grace and Greta Van Sustern ( back in the day). could really bring a case out in the media and hammer the holy *&%$ out of it.

someday I hope we can see a new mainstream channel that is devoted to solving crime and keeping the public informed.

mOO

 

[Ozoner]

I hate to say it , but Nancy Grace and Greta Van Sustern ( back in the day). could really bring a case out in the media and hammer the holy *&%$ out of it.

someday I hope we can see a new mainstream channel that is devoted to solving crime and keeping the public informed.

mOO

Snipped.

Does Court TV no longer exist? That's the channel Nancy Grace was on, right?

I remember when Nancy Grace really put the screws to a mother who had obviously killed her own child, and that mother ended up committing suicide.

 

[K.jill]

Re the discussion on the “creepy” guy on the previous thread. I’ve never read that either of the girls used that word. If they did, LE certainly didn’t say it was on the recording Libby made. However, several people did use that term. IIRC Gray Hughes was the first person, then Becky Patty, and finally by Kelsi in the following podcast.

Victimology Podcast

The Delphi Murders – Interview with Kelsi
@ 13:00

Q. You dropped them off like early after noonish or like mid-afternoon?
K: I dropped the girls off around 1:30 on my way to my boyfriend’s house. My Dad was supposed to pick them up around 3:30.
…
My sister and Abby were there taking pictures and videos of each other and just hanging out which is something very common in that area. And at one point the girls had already gotten across the bridge and it seems like Libby realizes that something is wrong or there’s a creepy guy behind them who just kind of made her feel nervous. Like she felt like something was gonna happen, so she started recording Abby and got the suspect in the back of this video and now that’s been – part of that has been released to the public, so you can hear his voice and see him walking across the bridge.

Victimology – The Oracl3 Network

The girls were going to be picked up at 3:30.
And, le has said the crime was over by 3:30. is that correct?
Is the timing a coincidence or did the killer(s) want to be away from the area by 3:30? ...just wondering out loud here.

 

[Yemelyan]

There is not enough interest in this story. and people aren't connecting to it the way they did with cases that got more out there with the evidence..maybe they should release something salacious to bring attention..maybe it would be worth it.

SBBM....

The meaning of salacious is: having or conveying undue or inappropriate interest in sexual matters. Pornographic. Obscene.

Is that really what you meant to say about two young girls? I'm hoping maybe you meant "sensational"....

But in any case, think back to Carter's righteous anger saying "two LITTLE girls" and "NOT how you left them" and you'll see why releasing salacious details will probably never happen. It's a conservative place and it looks like authorities are sensitive about what happened given their ages.

Terrible idea, by the way.

 

[Diddian]

IMHO, important that this was a Federal holiday. IMHO, this gave AW & LG the day off from school and the perpetrator the day off from his job.

As the Monday of a three-day weekend, the perpetrator may have been able to travel further to be in this location on Monday.

Yes, Valentine's Day could indeed be the cue.

jmho ymmv lrr

Please note that Feb 13, 2017 was NOT a Federal holiday. It was a school day off because the district had not used all the planned snow days. The Friday before (Feb 10, 2017) was also a school day off for the same reason. So, the girls had a full four-day weekend.

There would be no reason to expect that the perpetrator would have had that day off from his job unless his job was somehow related to the school district, or he worked in such a way that he controlled his own working hours and days, or he didn't work Mondays, at least on occasion.

The Federal holiday Presidents' Day was celebrated Feb 20, 2017.

 

[Falling Down]

I have always thought that he could be tech savvy bc of child .



Thank you (and everyone) for your response(s).

He could have used free, public wifi for his online recon.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

Ohio has at least 2 recent unsolved murders occurring on a park trail. Two friends (male and female) were walking and were shot by an as yet unknown assailant(s). Different M.O., but tossing it out there. Last I read, no POI.

One was in Cuyahoga National Park, right by a residential area.

Good catch.

 

[margarita25]

He could have used free, public wifi for his online recon.

JMO

Indeed.

I was thinking to myself earlier, wondering, how many male predators that murder children actually do NOT view child . My guess is it is a minority, idk. Again, SA has not been confirmed wrt the girls, but if I had to guess, I would lean on the side of it occurring, jmo.

As far as my above question goes, perhaps there is a stat listed (that I’m not recalling atm) via one of the links here in the databases forum / I see I created the thread in 2018, so the resources and information should be fairly current:

WS / National and International Databases and Resources / Child Resources and Information

 

[Falling Down]

LE has said that the video also catches “criminal activity” (mentioned in many MSM articles including this one New evidence in Indiana murder case led to 1K new tips). I think they noticed a creepy guy hanging out nearby, but perhaps didn’t know how to get back over the bridge without having to pass by him, and he “corralled” them. As a girl/woman, there are lots of times when you notice creepy guys near you but don’t know whether that person is actually a threat. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve felt like I was being “followed” down my street and felt terrified because he was right behind me, but then I cross the street or stop to “tie my shoe” and it’s just a totally clued-out guy who’s not very self-aware. So as a woman your “danger senses” are always tingling but sometimes you don’t know when to trust them. I think they sensed something was off about him, but by the time they realized he was actually a threat (i.e. immediately after he says “guys, down the hill”) he pulls out a gun and it was too late. MOO.

My theory re: initial contact is they saw each other. BG was creeping on the main trail near where the girls were dropped off. I'm of the opinion he changed his appearance some and "loaded up" before making his way down the trail towards the bridge.

They may not have recognized him from earlier on in their walk due to distance and a change in appearance.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

Indeed.

I was thinking to myself earlier, wondering, how many male predators that murder children actually do NOT view child . My guess is it is a minority, idk. Again, SA has not been confirmed wrt the girls, but if I had to guess, I would lean on the side of it occurring, jmo.

As far as my above question goes, perhaps there is a stat listed (that I’m not recalling atm) via one of the links here in the databases forum / I see I created the thread in 2018, so the resources and information should be fairly current:

WS / National and International Databases and Resources / Child Resources and Information

At the very least, SK's have bizarre fetishes, confirmed by FBI and other LE findings.

 

[margarita25]

At the very least, SK's have bizarre fetishes, confirmed by FBI and other LE findings.

And if he’s a sexual sadist...

 

[stattlich1]

I have to stick with what LE has stated. This killer was familiar with the area because he was from Delphi, or visited Delphi regularly, or even currently lives in Delphi, or nearby.

He may not have had a job at the time. OR, he may have worked night shift. As a side thought, I worked in a school district. Not sure about Delphi schools, but we always put out a calendar for the entire year, and snow makeup days were built in to and clearly indicated on the school calendar.

I've thought maybe he's MHMR. That could be enough justification for a close family member to possibly want to protect him from the legal system.

I've read LE isn't certain if there is one, or two, or more involved. I'm not certain either.

Why's he tell those girls 'down the hill' anyway? Somebody down there waiting for them? Maybe not. Then why? I propose because he had familiarity with the area, and knew right where he was going.

I don't think he boarded a plane afterward. But I DO think he parked at that cemetery, and simply walked up that hill, got in his car, and drove away. There's all kinds of country roads that would take him away from the scene.

Indeed, I DO think he was likely laying in wait on previous occasions for an opportune moment. I can see him parking at the cemetery, walking under cover of the woods, perched at some high point, viewing a portion of the trail, on numerous occasions prior to this fateful day.

At times, however, I also think he could have targeted one, or both girls, to protect himself from some unknown to us irreparable harm that one, or both, of the girls might cause him. Pure speculation of course.

He COULD be a serial killer. Sure, it may come to the light some day, that this guy is responsible for other, maybe numerous, maybe many, murders around the country. It's not like THAT hasn't happened before right?

Still watching, and waiting and hoping to see an arrest some day.

 

[Falling Down]

And if he’s a sexual sadist...

Or a sadist and control freak in general, but gets off on the notoriety. He's famous, he's "Bridge Guy".

 

[Charlot123]

BBM

No, which is why the evidence that's been officially revealed should be the starting point for any theories set forth.

There's evidence that BG did not know the girls' names—i.e., he did not address them by name even though doing so would have helped gain their compliance—so if you're going to suggest that he tracked them for a few days, you'll need to come up with a plausible theory on how he could track them without knowing their names.

Quite a bit of evidence has been presented indicating that BG is likely a trail killer, none of whom have ever targeted specific victims in advance. All of the known trail killers mentioned in discussions about this case have staked out trails and simply victimized whatever people happened to come along (often without being overly particular about age, sex, race, etc.).

You're free to propose any theory you wish, but if you're going to present a theory that seems to actually run counter to the known evidence, you should be prepared to counter the evidence that points to BG's being a trail killer.

For instance, BG seems to be somewhat familiar with the area around Monon High Bridge. Did he track the girls for a few days and manage to familiarize himself with that trail despite not knowing when or if the girls would go there? How did he manage to familiarize himself with the trail system and prepare for the attack while tracking the girls at the same time? That reminds me of the storyline in one of the Harry Potter books where Hermione magically creates two of herself so that she can take twice as many classes. It doesn't seem possible that BG could have done that. It doesn't add up.

He might have lived close by. The sad truth is, there are towns close enough to Delphi, Frankfort, Logansport, Kokomo, Lafayette, you name it. Monticello is 8 miles away, Cutler - within 10 miles. Pretty close. For someone who likes hiking, and lives close by, "familiarizing" with the area is not that necessary.

Your thought that he is a trail killer is valid enough, but you say, "likely". Respectfully, @Ozoner, we have no hard data...

Hence, it is our right to weigh the probabilities, in my mind, 70% - he somehow knew the girls, or one of them, maybe, online, 30% - ran into them accidentally.

As to the audio, as long as we all heard the same, he just addressed them "Hi guys". I can say this to my family, not to mention all, "guys, let's go to a sushi bar", or "i don't know about you, guys, but I want some tea". It proves nothing, either way.

 

[Charlot123]

At the very least, SK's have bizarre fetishes, confirmed by FBI and other LE findings.

This is the thing. We don't know what are the fetishes, how bizarre, but if early talks are true, I wonder if he is 1) attacking pairs
2) copycatting a famous European case that still gives headaches to investigators.

PS. That case generated a famous phrase, the suspicion is split between several participants, and several ones could be involved. It might also be so that the first time, the perpetrator knew one of the victims, but in all subsequent cases, someone else was the perpetrator, and the motive was different.

 

[Ozoner]

He COULD be a serial killer. Sure, it may come to the light some day, that this guy is responsible for other, maybe numerous, maybe many, murders around the country. It's not like THAT hasn't happened before right?

Still watching, and waiting and hoping to see an arrest some day.

I, too, would like to see BG apprehended, but I fear that he won't be caught unless he kills again. Better that he should retire. I don't think LE has a full DNA profile for BG. If they did, then they would have found him by now.

 

[JnRyan]

Or a sadist and control freak in general, but gets off on the notoriety. He's famous, he's "Bridge Guy".

I know. And for that reason I refuse to call him 'Bridge Guy' or 'BG'. When I was in the Navy some of us earned 'call signs'. For me he has done nothing to earn a moniker.

It's just me and personal for me and I have nothing against those calling him that. Me, I prefer 'killer', 'murderer', 'coward', 'dirtbag', '' and other numerous generic titles that WS would censor with "*'s".