Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[JimmyWells]

I hear two voices, and I'm not bending from this stance until proven otherwise.

There are far more than just Andy and Barney from Mayberry working on this case. They have had agency support and help from technologists on the images and video. There is only so much that can be done with that video with what is available today; but advancing rapidly.

LE has made no mention of two Perp voices. You may be hearing a mili-second of a suppressed vocal from one of the girls. It could be in the editing that sound byte has been slowed down and sounds like a male voice. There is no incentive for LE *not* to disclose if there were two male Perp voices. As such, I'm going only with what LE has provided/instructed. Listen to this voice, look at the second sketch. That's your BG.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[dotr]

Refresher re post.

Delphi Murder Suspect: Audio, video and sketch of man accused of killing Libby &Abby
•Apr 22, 2019

 

[JimmyWells]

Refresher re post.

Delphi Murder Suspect: Audio, video and sketch of man accused of killing Libby &Abby
•Apr 22, 2019

 

[JimmyWells]

I hear ya, pun intended, but I'm not buying it. If LE had their ears to the ground, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Two girls were murdered and the perp or perps are unidentified, end of the factual story as we know it. Furthermore, those that allegedly heard the tape said the perp's voice was personified with evil. "Down the hill" is fitting in that context, as it is raspy and demonstrative. "Guys," was anything but, however, I'm not hanging my hat on it. "Down the hill," was an order, most likely from someone brandishing a weapon. "Guys," was an introduction, devoid of direction, and quite possibly the beginning of the exchange. I think the tape is edited, and between, "Guys," and, "Down the hill," there was some dialogue. I'm not dismissing the possibility that both phrases came from the same man, I'm discounting the likelihood the exchanges were consecutive. With that being said, I'm not deviating from my position, I hear two voices.

 

[Peppery]

I go back and forth with one or two voices. Something I don’t understand though, is WHY did LE leave all that noise in between the guys and down the hill? I think I recall Carter saying the two phrases aren’t necessarily connected. It’s pretty loud and distracting to me and I can only think it was intentionally left/put there. Does it mean something to someone who knows BG? Is it their footsteps? Blurred out voices of Abigail and/or Liberty? They have the capability to remove it but it’s there for a reason. What that reason is, I don’t know.

Also, at the april 2019 PC, Carter made it seem like the additional audio they were going to release was a much bigger deal than the “guys” turned out to be. I think “guys” is the most important part, whether that’s because it is a second voice or maybe it sounds more like the rest of the audio they have, thus giving a better representation of his real voice. MOO

 

[Skully]

I only hear one voice. But I think that this is spliced together, only because it doesn't flow to me. I hear the "noise" in-between the two statements, but that could be wind, the phone hitting her clothing, something of that nature. It also sounds like he is so close to them at this point.

 

[Skully]

I go back and forth with one or two voices. Something I don’t understand though, is WHY did LE leave all that noise in between the guys and down the hill? I think I recall Carter saying the two phrases aren’t necessarily connected. It’s pretty loud and distracting to me and I can only think it was intentionally left/put there. Does it mean something to someone who knows BG? Is it their footsteps? Blurred out voices of Abigail and/or Liberty? They have the capability to remove it but it’s there for a reason. What that reason is, I don’t know.

Also, at the april 2019 PC, Carter made it seem like the additional audio they were going to release was a much bigger deal than the “guys” turned out to be. I think “guys” is the most important part, whether that’s because it is a second voice or maybe it sounds more like the rest of the audio they have, thus giving a better representation of his real voice. MOO

When I hear him speak, he sounds older, not younger like the second drawing.

 

[Skully]

"Down the hill", that is odd to me. Why not get down the hill, or go down the hill. So for some reason it is like they selected what they could release, like the whole sentence couldn't be aired for some reason. Also I am from PA, and his accent is definitely PA or Ohio.

 

[JimmyWells]

I also failed to mention that, "Guys," was released in conjunction with the second sketch, implying a younger offender. Now I know this sketch was based on eyewitness testimony, but the polarizing sketches coupled with, what I view are two separate voices, didn't occur by coincidence. Either LE has no idea, or they suspect there are multiple offenders. Think about it, and think about any pre-teens you know, boys or girls, who wouldn't run. They had the time, as well as several avenues of escape, on the east end on the bridge. Who knows? The girls could have taken off, explaining the trek through the creek in February, and he either caught them or had the second offender lying in wait on the east side. I don't think the girls would have stayed on the bridge if BG was alone, and I don't think he would have caught them on his best day due to the terrain he was dealing with, along with the head start the girls would have had. Highly speculative, I know, but this isn't my first rodeo and I'm following the evidence available. [Something I don’t understand though, is WHY did LE leave all that noise in between the guys and down the hill? I think I recall Carter saying the two phrases aren’t necessarily connected. It’s pretty loud and distracting to me and I can only think it was intentionally left/put there. Does it mean something to someone who knows BG? Is it their footsteps? Blurred out voices of Abigail and/or Liberty? They have the capability to remove it but it’s there for a reason. What that reason is, I don’t know.

Also, at the april 2019 PC, Carter made it seem like the additional audio they were going to release was a much bigger deal than the “guys” turned out to be. I think “guys” is the most important part, whether that’s because it is a second voice or maybe it sounds more like the rest of the audio they have, thus giving a better representation of his real voice. MOO[/QUOTE]

 

[JimmyWells]

People are minimizing the fact that this was a well-organized trap in a controlled environment. There's only one way off that bridge if both ends were covered, and the offender(s) knew it.

 

[dotr]

Not that this is likely, but if there was in fact 2 voices and/or 2 suspects (let's say one is older than the other, ie 2 poi sketches) if one perp was giving the command to all three to go" down the hill.''
Commander, enforcer, prisoners..
speculation, imo.

 

[JimmyWells]

I'm just going off my experience and google maps. You can't abate someone from running from several hundred feet away and, gun or no gun, verbal direction wouldn't be effective at that distance unless they were scared stiff. And if they were scared stiff, I hardly think they'd be filming an advancing assailant. My theory is as follows, pure speculation, and reaching at best:
BG planned this far out, and it was evident due to the fact that LE is confident he's is local, coupled with the alleged fact that he wasn't carrying a phone. This is important for several reasons, one of which because it shows premeditation along with his shoddy disguise, but also hurts the secondary offender possibility as both offenders would have had to communicate with each other to trap the victims. Delphi should have scanned for two way radio traffic, as the vast majority of said traffic is not monitored, and could have been a secondary method of communication. Secondly, the weather played a pivotal role and may be suggestive of a crime of opportunity from a drifter type offender as the day was unseasonably warm and any rural trails, parks, etc. are relatively target-rich environments given the time of year. With that being said, a drifter wouldn't have had knowledge of the area, and the main railway was roughly a mile north. I do not believe this offender knew Abby or Libby personally, but knew the area well enough to loosely plan the attack and picked a day warm enough to execute it, yet cold enough so witnesses would be few and far between. I don't know why the girls would have stayed idle on the east end, this makes zero sense to me without some sort of physical barrier or serious threat. BG would not have caught them in ordinary circumstances, he didn't appear to be physically fit, they had a two hundred foot head start, and teens can fly. They were obviously directed, "Down the hill," from the east end of the tracks and didn't run initially, but were obviously spooked enough to start snapping pictures. This makes zero, absolutely zero sense. Now they could have been a bit spooked and just rolled the dice on not running and documenting the encounter, but BG had been following them for some time but not even on the bridge yet. So it would have taken several minutes for BG to even intercept Abby and Libby, yet they stood idle at that far east end for the time it would have taken him to close the distance. One could speculate that this guy is highly organized and used the creek to throw off the scent, but I think the girls took off once their fate was realized. I don't think he intended on committing this crime north of the creek, or outdoors altogether, but like LE said, his demeanor was brutal and the girls probably wised up. Again, this suggests a single offender as they were able to get away momentarily, but the logistics of the crime coupled with the sketches and audio suggests multiple. Frankly, without the audio or sketches, I'd say this was a lone offender who resides in a nearby community, but not Delphi. These guys do not crap where they eat but must know the physical area well enough to execute the crime. Delphi should have also taken a look at anyone in the surrounding areas who had been on google maps or similar sites in the weeks leading up to the homicides. So yeah, in a nutshell, I'm still a bit lost, but some more information regarding the physical evidence would definitely clarify things.

Not that this is likely, but if there was in fact 2 voices and/or 2 suspects (let's say one is older than the other, ie 2 poi sketches) if one perp was giving the command to all three to go" down the hill.''
Commander, enforcer, prisoners..
speculation, imo.

 

[Skully]

I think the "down the hill" was after he had control of them. I think he used 4 things to control them, a gun, zip ties, threats to hurt the other one if she didn't comply and of course FEAR. JMO
I believe he knew the area, planned this for some time, waited for the opportunity knowing at some point kids cross that bridge. I did see a video of the area someone made and after watching it, he was in shape to walk the terrain and carry out the crime and then get back to his vehicle. The voice throws me off for age, I just get a different look to him from that.

 

[Skully]

To get control of them, he may have address them; like he needed something or can you guys help me...... Maybe a ruse of some sort and called out to them about something. They could have waited and then realized it was "fishy" and then decided to film him, but by then, too late. One thing I learned from the cases I get to work, is that women are too nice and polite and some kids are raised to "help", that will get you killed. If you think something is off, run. Don't worry about offending someone.

 

[JimmyWells]

Or there's the possibility that Libby or Abby had relatives or acquaintances in law enforcement and got the, "Talk," any responsible officer gives to their female relatives, and it is as follows: "You do anything the guy tells you to do, anything, but if he tries to take you somewhere else you better fight like hell, because your chances of survival are slim to none."
<modsnip>

To get control of them, he may have address them; like he needed something or can you guys help me...... Maybe a ruse of some sort and called out to them about something. They could have waited and then realized it was "fishy" and then decided to film him, but by then, too late. One thing I learned from the cases I get to work, is that women are too nice and polite and some kids are raised to "help", that will get you killed. If you think something is off, run. Don't worry about offending someone.

 

[JimmyWells]

My point was he wouldn't be able to control them from that distance with verbal direction alone. Even if he was strapped, they wouldn't have known it from 200 feet. The only way it could have worked is if this guy flashed a phony badge, that's a big one with sex offenders. There had to be something that scared them into not fleeing, and perceived authority confronting them for, "Trespassing," or something of that nature would suffice.

To get control of them, he may have address them; like he needed something or can you guys help me...... Maybe a ruse of some sort and called out to them about something. They could have waited and then realized it was "fishy" and then decided to film him, but by then, too late. One thing I learned from the cases I get to work, is that women are too nice and polite and some kids are raised to "help", that will get you killed. If you think something is off, run. Don't worry about offending someone.

 

[Skully]

Any one think he has a right leg that may be longer than the left? I also see he keeps his arm sort of tucked to his right side, I have seen people who have issues with the back that do this. But if he had back issues, he ain't hiking up and down that terrain. But he sort of looks off balance to me.

 

[Skully]

My point was he wouldn't be able to control them from that distance with verbal direction alone. Even if he was strapped, they wouldn't have known it from 200 feet. The only way it could have worked is if this guy flashed a phony badge, that's a big one with sex offenders. There had to be something that scared them into not fleeing, and perceived authority confronting them for, "Trespassing," or something of that nature would suffice.

Yes a badge would do it for most kids. Joseph Smith is the killer of Carly Brushia and it is caught on video tape in a back parking lot. You can see him pull something out of his pocket and show it to her, as he grabs her arm. Many think that it was a badge. I also was think that BG, could be in security, like a mall cop, or even some sort of night security guard; only because of the way he addresses them "guys", and calmly commanding them to go down the hill.

 

[Skully]

Or there's the possibility that Libby or Abby had relatives or acquaintances in law enforcement and got the, "Talk," any responsible officer gives to their female relatives, and it is as follows: "You do anything the guy tells you to do, anything, but if he tries to take you somewhere else you better fight like hell, because your chances of survival are slim to none."
I'm confident the scene was heinous, but it would have paled in comparison to the abuse these poor girls would have incurred if the crime occured elsewhere, it probably would have lasted days.

Never go to the second location, die at the first. You will suffer way less.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I don’t think the girls saw BG as a threat as they filmed him coming across the bridge, so I don’t think they made a decision to film instead of to run. They were certainly wary of him but were probably trying to convince themselves he was OK and the situation would be OK. I think their plan was to cross back across the bridge once he finished crossing to politely distance themselves from him.
I do believe he used some type of ruse to get the girls off the bridge. Exactly what that was I believe is one of the things LE is keeping very tightly hidden, hence the butchered editing on the audio clip. Personally I think the exchange went like this,
BG: I’m an employee of the railroad and this is private property. You are trespassing. Also...GUYS...this bridge is dangerous, you cannot recross it.
Girls: But how do we get back?
BG: DOWN THE HILL
I used to think the girls bolted at some point when they realized his intent but I’m not sure now. It’s very likely he surprised them at the crime scene with his intentions. I am convinced one person murdered them. The only thing that puts any doubts in my mind is that second sketch that we all are trying to make sense of.
Just my thoughts. A few weeks from now I’ll probably think something entirely different!