Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

[somequestions]

You’re right, there really has been much in the way of “new” news since the Apr/19 PC. LE holding public PCs, releasing sketches and asking for tips - that’s not a positive indication an investigation is strongly progressing toward any one suspect because if it were, they’d have no need to seek the public’s assistance. And they’ve never tried to lead us to believe there’s a suspect in their sights, it’s a case of a missing “who”.

"We have a completed puzzle right now of what happened to those two little girls," Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter said last week. "The only thing we’re missing is 'who.'"
Seeking justice for Abby and Libby

But time moves on. The present silence by LE can mean two different things -
- a cold case, or
- indeed they’ve recently identified a strong possible suspect and they’re close to an arrest.

For that reason when the 4th anniversary comes around I’m hoping they’re no longer asking for tips seeking that one piece of the puzzle. If they are then I’d agree, it’s becoming a cold case whether they want to admit it or not. If they had additional information to provide that might assist in jogging anyone’s memory they’d have released it by now but that’s just my opinion.

I hope you are right. I would like to think the case will be solved. I think that I do not think the same as others when I look at this case. What really made me think the police have nothing was when the Indiana State Police Superintendent gave an interview to the news media on the 3 year anniversary and said that if it gets to year 4 he hopes they(referring to the media) are sitting down again to talk about the case. So I would guess that on the anniversary this year there will not be a press conference, but a simple press release for the media reminding everyone that Abby and Libby's case is not solved after 4 years and asking anyone with information to either email or phone in a tip. The case is an open and active investigation.

And then process repeats itself until the day comes where LE gets that tip or finds that tip they need to solve the case.

 

[sandy_80]

I cant have hope for a case that I am completely convinced its committed by an an older adult while you are still considering a teen for it..
and that is where they messed up big time
we need a miracle .
so this is what I think might have happened...
the first sketch is BG ...and the witnesses did not see his full face which caused some conflict between witnesses and artist ...the second sketch came from an incident unrelated directly to the crime but looked suspicious to witness ...
LE think they identified a suspect related to sketch 1...so they decide to drop it and take a chance on sketch 2...which by all means can have zero connection to the case ...now the case is going with a wrong direction ( sketch ) and no clear profile of killer....its stuck
just my opinion n theory

 

[Deleted member 102539]

<------ Hopefully!!!

 

[TTF14]

I would certainly be interested in knowing who the potential POIs via local chatter are.

Same!

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

With respect, WS doesn’t have the power to prosecute so what we think doesn’t matter. But in the past LE has issued statements regarding other potential suspects only known because their name had arisen in the media regarding unrelated crimes. That’s been my point all along because surely TJ had to have been considered a POI at some point in time considering his admitted murder of RM, after he was arrested and the body was found in his closet, as it appears that crime involved severe mental illness and a psychotic breakdown.

KG also seems to consider the possibility the killer may’ve been around the same age as she and grew up in Delphi -

“If you weren’t from the area, you wouldn’t know (the trails) were here,” German says, turning away from the trail. “It’s hard for me to imagine that someone I’ve grown up with, someone who grew up in the same place I’ve grown up in, could do something like that.”..”
A new path

KG’s statement does not necessarily correlate age in regard to BG, though. She could be referring to her youthfulness and growing up alongside local, cemented neighbors, whose generations have repeated the process. But I agree with her that no outsider would know the direction of the trails.

I want nothing more than this to be solved. This person simply doesn’t check (enough) boxes, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

However, while most people make some limited use of eidetic memory, photographic memory is rarer. There have been many studies into people who claim to have a photographic memory. ... The ability to have a photographic memory has been linked to high intelligence.
(found via Google)
BG has had to walk the trails at MHB only once, IF he has a photographic memory, I believe. "Testing" the area once, then returning back for his "adventure". IMO

 

[SamisDad]

Some thoughts on behavioral/ work/ changes/ changes in appearance , etc.
Smoker changes from cigs to chew or vice-versa. (Fear of possible evidence left.)
Change in appearance, (possible reasons).
Medical issue: (Cancer, chemo, vasectomy, Gastro operations/ weight loss, ED treatment)
Operation Possibly to overcome an injury sustained in attack.
Possibly why/if penetration or rape may not have been perpetuated.
Working out/ lack of exercise: To lose or gain weight,
Jobs: Trucker/ change in routes. Long/ short haul switch. Employer change.
Clothing style: From layered, with hoodie underneath to alternative. Heavier jacket lighter undershirt.
Sports team logos versus hunting sports logos or work apparel logos,
Bolder colors versus camo and earth tones Running shoes
versus boots.

Possible Student return or off at school. (University, Trade, etc.)
Grades or major: Recent change from previous GPA or change in Major.
Recent drop out, before or after incident. Transfer to different school.
Loss of scholarship: Athletic or academic, loss of prestige.

Relational: Loss of custody of child(ren). {Retaliation of former CPS, child services building?}
Recent financial change in Child support responsibility or paternity.
Birth of child or awareness of an unwanted pregnancy.
Anniversary of loss of children or event with Child Services.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I am hoping that on the fourth anniversary LE will release at least a little more information, though I’m not really expecting it. If they don’t, I think this case is cold and will remain that way for a long time.
The most perplexing thing about how this case has been handled to me is how LE releases nothing, but consistently begs for help from the public, and then complains that the tips are not good tips or are too speculative. Well, duh.
My fourth anniversary thoughts, opinion only:
1) The killer is not local and I will believe that until LE gives some reason other than familiarity with the trails and terrain as to why they think that. Scouting and research can accomplish the same thing.(The killer may be an Israel Keyes wanna-be. Like Keyes was a fan of Bundy and others and used pieces of their techniques in his own crimes, this guy is doing the same with Keyes. Researching from afar, picking small towns at random, using distance to evade capture, very bold but careful, take anybody, men or women, single or pairs.)
2) The killer used a ruse to get the girls down the hill. His intent was to get them(or at least one of them) to his car at the cemetery, but something went wrong. The girls may have bolted or fought back. If the killer only wanted one because two would be hard to control he may have suddenly killed one of the girls and the other one started to fight and was killed also.
3) Even though things didn’t go as planned the killer needed to leave signatures important to him at the crime scene and he did.
4) The killer lives a good ways away. He has told no one and no one suspects him. The people around him probably have never heard of the Delphi murders. There is no one to turn him in so that’s one call LE will never get.
5) This murder spooked the killer so he’s laying low for a bit. Things went very wrong and he was lucky. The victims didn’t behave right. Getting videoed by Libby initially frightened him but by now he’s feeling pretty secure. Four years and nothing. Change of direction and nothing. Solid.
The only way this gets solved is if he commits another crime and is somehow caught there or someone close to him finds physical evidence taken from the crime scene. They may not know what it is or what it connects to but it is odd and disturbing enough that they take it to local LE and they somehow connect it to Delphi.
Just my thoughts.
Hope I’m wrong and there’s an arrest this year.

 

[JnRyan]

I am hoping that on the fourth anniversary LE will release at least a little more information, though I’m not really expecting it. If they don’t, I think this case is cold and will remain that way for a long time.
The most perplexing thing about how this case has been handled to me is how LE releases nothing, but consistently begs for help from the public, and then complains that the tips are not good tips or are too speculative. Well, duh.
My fourth anniversary thoughts, opinion only:
1) The killer is not local and I will believe that until LE gives some reason other than familiarity with the trails and terrain as to why they think that. Scouting and research can accomplish the same thing.(The killer may be an Israel Keyes wanna-be. Like Keyes was a fan of Bundy and others and used pieces of their techniques in his own crimes, this guy is doing the same with Keyes. Researching from afar, picking small towns at random, using distance to evade capture, very bold but careful, take anybody, men or women, single or pairs.)
2) The killer used a ruse to get the girls down the hill. His intent was to get them(or at least one of them) to his car at the cemetery, but something went wrong. The girls may have bolted or fought back. If the killer only wanted one because two would be hard to control he may have suddenly killed one of the girls and the other one started to fight and was killed also.
3) Even though things didn’t go as planned the killer needed to leave signatures important to him at the crime scene and he did.
4) The killer lives a good ways away. He has told no one and no one suspects him. The people around him probably have never heard of the Delphi murders. There is no one to turn him in so that’s one call LE will never get.
5) This murder spooked the killer so he’s laying low for a bit. Things went very wrong and he was lucky. The victims didn’t behave right. Getting videoed by Libby initially frightened him but by now he’s feeling pretty secure. Four years and nothing. Change of direction and nothing. Solid.
The only way this gets solved is if he commits another crime and is somehow caught there or someone close to him finds physical evidence taken from the crime scene. They may not know what it is or what it connects to but it is odd and disturbing enough that they take it to local LE and they somehow connect it to Delphi.
Just my thoughts.
Hope I’m wrong and there’s an arrest this year.

I in agreement on all of this except #2 - getting them to a car. (That said, unless LE has something to rule it out I would still consider it as one of the possibilities. I just don't put it high on my list.) I'm really in agreement with #4. This guy could be living in Indianapolis or even Chicago or Louisville KY. I wonder if the months prior to the murders if someone saw him on the trail. Although, if his previous visit was in 2016 or even 2015, I doubt if anyone remembers him. Unless his name is in the thousands of tips already submitted, I, unfortunately, believe he won't be caught until he commits another murder or a sex crime causing a CODIS match. Assuming LE has a complete DNA profile to match.

 

[layer]

Does anyone know if KG has tried hypnosis to recover more details about the afternoon when she dropped off the girls? For example the dark SUV with its rear windshield covered in decals, parked near the entrance?

 

[Snoop Sister]

I have been following this case from the beginning. Several times LE have implied an arrest was close. I don’t believe LE have anything significant to go on or move forward with. Someone knows something, and if they don’t come forward, this case will remain unsolved and eventually will be renamed as a cold case

 

[Snoop Sister]

I am hoping that on the fourth anniversary LE will release at least a little more information, though I’m not really expecting it.

2) The killer used a ruse to get the girls down the hill.

snipped by me

I agree, I don’t think LE have any additional or new info.

I believe the killer had a gun or knife when he approached the girls and then ordered then down the hill.

 

[LRDenton]

I have been following this case from the beginning. Several times LE have implied an arrest was close. I don’t believe LE have anything significant to go on or move forward with. Someone knows something, and if they don’t come forward, this case will remain unsolved and eventually will be renamed as a cold case

Can I please ask what/when these several times were? I only recall a single occasion which came from an interview (Down The Hill podcast) with the former Prosecutor Robert Ives, whereby he stated he was sure an arrest would be made within the first few days. Thank you.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Can I please ask what/when these several times were? I only recall a single occasion which came from an interview (Down The Hill podcast) with the former Prosecutor Robert Ives, whereby he stated he was sure an arrest would be made within the first few days. Thank you.

At different press conferences held by LE. More so shortly after the murders. Press conferences have been posted in previous posts and threads.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

At different press conferences held by LE. More so shortly after the murders. Press conferences have been posted in previous posts and threads.

I guess I just heard those press conferences a little different. I have never gotten the impression LE was close to arresting a particular person, only that they needed that “one last piece of the puzzle” they keep talking about, which, I took to mean they don’t know who did this and need someone to call with a tip that identifies the killer.

 

[sunshineray]

I was watching the Netflix episodic show "Unabomber: In His Own Words" recently. The serial killer author, historian and criminal history PHD, Peter Vronsky said something that made me think about ISP Carter's words to the Delphi killer in that April 2019 press conference. Then one thought led to another.

Mr. Vronsky said when you ask a serial killer, "... what did it feel like to kill someone?...most serial killers say the same thing - 'didn't feel anything'."

ISP Carter said while speaking directly to the killer. Some below is out of context.

" What will those closest to you think of you when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls? Two children! Only a coward would do such a thing. We are confident that you have told someone what you have done, or at the very least they know because of how different you are since the murders...

To the murderer: I believe you have just a little bit of conscience left ."

Are those question being asked of a serial killer? Why even bother asking these things of someone you know, statically, didn't "feel" anything while committing murder? Just an observation.

I'm wondering anew if the Delphi killings were in fact a first time occurence for this killer, it was personal to at least one of the victims and he's a local.

Ana Williams has confirmed in a podcast that LE said there were upwards of 50 people in the area of Delphi Trails land that day. Some I believe were just other groups of kids off from school (don't recall a number of how many being said). As far as any LE or MM mentioning who the others might have been, I can only recalled BH the horn blower mentioning himself working close by and reporting something he saw that he thought LE should know. Then I also recall a general mention of benches being installed by numerous individuals (maybe 5 people at the most?). Lastly is C who was walking with a friend and FSG walking his dogs. Even if there were say 10 kids, that still leaves quite a large number of officially recognized unknowns in the area.

Has anyone any others confirmed by LE or MM to have been in that immediate area that day? Please just initials and general circumstances.

Praying for justice.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I was watching the Netflix episodic show "Unabomber: In His Own Words" recently. The serial killer author, historian and criminal history PHD, Peter Vronsky said something that made me think about ISP Carter's words to the Delphi killer in that April 2019 press conference. Then one thought led to another.

Mr. Vronsky said when you ask a serial killer, "... what did it feel like to kill someone?...most serial killers say the same thing - 'didn't feel anything'."

ISP Carter said while speaking directly to the killer. Some below is out of context.

" What will those closest to you think of you when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls? Two children! Only a coward would do such a thing. We are confident that you have told someone what you have done, or at the very least they know because of how different you are since the murders...

To the murderer: I believe you have just a little bit of conscience left ."

Are those question being asked of a serial killer? Why even bother asking these things of someone you know, statically, didn't "feel" anything while committing murder? Just an observation.

I'm wondering anew if the Delphi killings were in fact a first time occurence for this killer, it was personal to at least one of the victims and he's a local.

Ana Williams has confirmed in a podcast that LE said there were upwards of 50 people in the area of Delphi Trails land that day. Some I believe were just other groups of kids off from school (don't recall a number of how many being said). As far as any LE or MM mentioning who the others might have been, I can only recalled BH the horn blower mentioning himself working close by and reporting something he saw that he thought LE should know. Then I also recall a general mention of benches being installed by numerous individuals (maybe 5 people at the most?). Lastly is C who was walking with a friend and FSG walking his dogs. Even if there were say 10 kids, that still leaves quite a large number of officially recognized unknowns in the area.

Has anyone any others confirmed by LE or MM to have been in that immediate area that day? Please just initials and general circumstances.

Praying for justice.

A couple questions.
“...BH the horn blower mentioning himself working close by and reporting something he saw that LE should know.” I don’t know who BH is and I don’t know what a “horn blower” refers to. Did the second(young) sketch originate with him?

As far as others on the trails that day, at least what I have noticed, is there are a number of seemingly legitimate witness stories but few names. Understandable I think considering the killer is still out there. My guess is that LE knows their names though.

 

[minazoe]

I was watching the Netflix episodic show "Unabomber: In His Own Words" recently. The serial killer author, historian and criminal history PHD, Peter Vronsky said something that made me think about ISP Carter's words to the Delphi killer in that April 2019 press conference. Then one thought led to another.

Mr. Vronsky said when you ask a serial killer, "... what did it feel like to kill someone?...most serial killers say the same thing - 'didn't feel anything'."

ISP Carter said while speaking directly to the killer. Some below is out of context.

" What will those closest to you think of you when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls? Two children! Only a coward would do such a thing. We are confident that you have told someone what you have done, or at the very least they know because of how different you are since the murders...

To the murderer: I believe you have just a little bit of conscience left ."

Are those question being asked of a serial killer? Why even bother asking these things of someone you know, statically, didn't "feel" anything while committing murder? Just an observation.

I'm wondering anew if the Delphi killings were in fact a first time occurence for this killer, it was personal to at least one of the victims and he's a local.

Ana Williams has confirmed in a podcast that LE said there were upwards of 50 people in the area of Delphi Trails land that day. Some I believe were just other groups of kids off from school (don't recall a number of how many being said). As far as any LE or MM mentioning who the others might have been, I can only recalled BH the horn blower mentioning himself working close by and reporting something he saw that he thought LE should know. Then I also recall a general mention of benches being installed by numerous individuals (maybe 5 people at the most?). Lastly is C who was walking with a friend and FSG walking his dogs. Even if there were say 10 kids, that still leaves quite a large number of officially recognized unknowns in the area.

Has anyone any others confirmed by LE or MM to have been in that immediate area that day? Please just initials and general circumstances.

Praying for justice.

yes, earlier I questioned the usefulness of name calling and guilt baiting...he could care less about being called a coward and has zero conscience so there is no shred of conscience left, as it never existed.

this is a pathological killer. better this case is overseen by someone who truly understands what they are dealing with.

mOO

 

[MistyWaters]

I guess I just heard those press conferences a little different. I have never gotten the impression LE was close to arresting a particular person, only that they needed that “one last piece of the puzzle” they keep talking about, which, I took to mean they don’t know who did this and need someone to call with a tip that identifies the killer.

I’ve never got that impression either. Every single PC I can recall LE has asked for tips on the identity of the suspect on the bridge. If they were close to an arrest LE ought to know his identity.

 

[Laughing]

Does anyone know if KG has tried hypnosis to recover more details about the afternoon when she dropped off the girls? For example the dark SUV with its rear windshield covered in decals, parked near the entrance?

bbm

Can you post a link re: dark SUV with rear window stickers?