Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[StarryStarryNight]

Hi, new to this thread. Sorry if this is a repeat question, but does anyone know anything about either victim’s real father or stepfather? I haven’t heard one word about either for either girl. Seems odd. Libby was raised by grandparents and had a mother who lived in nearby Kentucky, and Abby was raised by a single mother who according to her obituary was the only one listed at the time of her birth in Sault Sainte Marie Michigan. I thought I did read something about a stepfather for one of them at some point but then could not find it again.

Libby’s parents were divorced. She and her sister Kelsie lived with their grandparents and their father. Her grandparents have appeared often and grant many interviews. Her father prefers to stay in the background.
Abby’s father apparently was never a part of her life.

 

[Angels27]

If it is true that someone parked at abandoned building for 5 hours starting at noon and cops are interested in finding out his name, then I bet the guy planned this based on the day off of school. Who would know the kids were out of school that day. It wasn’t a scheduled day off but rather an extra day given bc they had extra “snow days” left over. A teacher would know, a coach would know, a parent, grandparent or older brother of a student would know. Someone cyber stalking teens online might know. This guy parked away from usual trail parking apparently and for FIVE hours. BG doesn’t look like he’s got the 5-hour hiker’s body type at all. He planned it for sure. Whether he planned to get those girls in particular or just anyone he came upon is the question.

In HLN doc I also noticed highway within site of bridge with big trucks on it. The idea of a trucker crossed my mind. But I doubt most of them take 5- hour daytime breaks.

 

[OverTheRhine]

It would be pretty easy for anyone with FB to know there was a day off. This person really just has to be friends with someone who is associated with the school in some way. I'm sure someone made a FB post. Or the person knows a parent, could check the school's website or FB page. A lot of easy ways to come across the information. It's a small town, I doubt the day off was any secret

 

[Charlot123]

I watched that presser for the first time today and thought I have never seen an officer so emotional before. He looked like he was about to reach across the room and pummel someone. What do you all make of that? I got the feeling from his expressions, gestures, and demeanor that he knows who did it but can’t prove it, maybe. But then some of his words seemed contra to that idea, like he really has no clue who this is and just wants VERY badly to catch the guy or guys. Maybe he has kids the same age and can relate, or knows the family well or something.

Have they ever come out and said they think for sure it’s only 1 guy? In one interview I saw with TL he seemed to hint at more than one, but I might be wrong.

I have a totally different explanation. He was given a sheet of paper, and told, “you have to deliver. Scare him into confiding”. So “delivered” he did, but DC is a very bad actor, and it showed.

 

[Angels27]

It would be pretty easy for anyone with FB to know there was a day off. This person really just has to be friends with someone who is associated with the school in some way. I'm sure someone made a FB post. Or the person knows a parent, could check the school's website or FB page. A lot of easy ways to come across the information. It's a small town, I doubt the day off was any secret

Yeah, or maybe the local news mentioned it. So he moves fast to plan this attack. What kind of guy has the whole day free to just disappear off the grid and murder people. That’s the big question they need to ask. Who in that town knows some adult male who just sits around all day with 5-8 hours to spare? Was he a night shift guy? (Cop, hospital worker, convenience store clerk, grocery or retail store stocking guy, office cleaner, truck driver, night security guard, road construction worker? Self-employed (gave himself the day off), farmer, manager, business owner, etc? He left at 5. Did he have to beat someone else home? Maybe a wife or parent? Was he a college student with the day off. Was he unemployed. Was he an out of town visitor staying with someone who worked til 5 or 6?

 

[Angels27]

I have a totally different explanation. He was given a sheet of paper, and told, “you have to deliver. Scare him into confiding”. So “delivered” he did, but DC is a very bad actor, and it showed.

who would have written it? Isn’t he the top LE guy there? He definitely seemed out of breath and very angry about something. It didn’t come across as scary at all. Just almost like out of control or at his wits end type of feeling. Like extreme frustration. And I also noticed he said they were “just starting new” now or something to that effect. What did he mean by that. Sounds like they had just gotten new info but they did not release anything new. And that was 2 years ago. Nothing came of it if they did have new info. Sadly.

 

[Angels27]

I noticed Abbys mother said they still have not even told the parents what happened to the girls. That seems odd. LE must know what kind of torture those poor parents are going thru not knowing. So why not at least tell them. It’s almost like being the parent of a missing child. That would be enough to make anyone snap. What would be the harm in only telling them, unless they thought someone close to them was the perp and it might get back to him. I highly doubt the parents would ever tell anyone if cops swore them to secrecy and told they could be brought up on obstruction of justice charges if they did. So why the total silence for over 4 YEARS?

 

[pearl]

Can anyone tell me how the question and answer with the newspaper came about? Was it initiated by law enforcement or by the newspaper?

 

[mpnola]

Ok one other thing new that came into my head recently. Another type of person who would know kids would be there is a brother or friend of a brother of a kid. I think about growing up. I have lots of brothers. They all had friends over all the time. People like that could have easily heard the younger sister talking about everyone going to be at the bridge tomorrow. Then I watched a dateline today and it was just that.... it was a brother of the victims good friend who killed her. That made me even more sure it was worth mentioning.

 

[Charlot123]

Your answer to BettyP is correct and I hope other agencies will be allowed to look at things too. “Allowed” being the key word.
I’m mostly talking about non-agency independent investigators. I really think they need to open this up to a lot of eyes.
I am so over LE saying “we have people that work on it every day”, “we get tips every day” blah blah blah. Do they want to solve it? Then LE should start making decisions that indicate they want to solve it. Two people working on it they claim...release some information and LE suddenly have two hundred thousand people working on it. Forget the “oh no false confessions” stuff. You don’t have to release everything and LE should be able to figure them out. Is it a waste of time to do that? No more than the four years LE has already wasted. Release some information. It’s not all or nothing.
Solve the stupid case. There is so much more that could be done.
Just my thoughts.

We all, from time to time, assume that LE might be unaware of who the perp is, and at other times, think that they have an idea, but something is holding them back?

I was thinking about it - what could it, potentially, be? Power and money, the usual? Something religious?

Has anyone considered that the perp, whoever he is, might know something to blackmail potential witnesses, the citizens of Delphi, even LE?

I remember one career ruined. A former escort lady told a story that ruined the judge’s career. And then she disappeared...where is she now?

Not for a second did I believe that she was scared to tell her story.

But what if that whole “diary” was an example, a thinly veiled threat? Every human being has something in his life that he/she doesn’t want to be known. Regular, human, sins - an extramarital affair, a bribe, embezzling, stealing, maybe a child out of wedlock, maybe a kid who did something in his youth...not the best stuff, of course, but not a murder, either.

What if this perp is blackmailing everyone? Depending on what he does, he might have enough material for everyone.

ETA: if we read some “explosive” information coming from Delphi, about its citizens, I would be very careful with judging. I may not like KF, but for every escort lady, it makes sense to have her “tame” judge, not to get rid of him.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Four years of unrelenting sadness for the families, and memories are all that remain.

 

[sunshineray]

I was a person here recently bringing up a possible meetup, because I wasn't as educated about this case as I am about others. This all helps. And this isn't likely given how short the timeframe probably was, but we do know the girls posted a photo from the bridge to Snapchat in real time. Maybe someone saw that and thought he'd take his chances that they were still there?

I still can't get over the arrested pedophile who liked to hang out in the woods and his similarity to the first sketch.

As far as you questioning if some senario wasn't possible because of the shortness of the killer time frame in the area, there has been discussion on an accepted source, Gray Hughes show, that says the killer may have lingered in the area for an hour's time past when Abby's photo was taken. It's possible the killer was still in the area when Libby's Dad arrived and was actively looking for the girls.

That discussion starts at the 2:04 mark on this GH video...

Also interesting in the GH's show...discussion about crime scene DNA begins at 1:59 mark.

 

[Angels27]

As far as you questioning if some senario wasn't possible because of the shortness of the killer time frame in the area, there has been discussion on an accepted source, Gray Hughes show, that says the killer may have lingered in the area for an hour's time past when Abby's photo was taken. It's possible the killer was still in the area when Libby's Dad arrived and was actively looking for the girls.

That discussion starts at the 2:04 mark on this GH video...

Also interesting in the GH's show...discussion about crime scene DNA begins at 1:59 mark.

The photo was taken at 2:17. He probably lingered in the area for 3 more hours, if it’s accurate that his vehicle did not leave the parking lot until 5 pm.

 

[Ekliptika]

Is it widely accepted/understood that the vehicle parked at the CPS building that LE sought information on, belonged to the killer?
The only official thing I have heard is the mentioning of the vehicle at the 2019 PC and then nothing since?

 

[Andreee]

Is it widely accepted/understood that the vehicle parked at the CPS building that LE sought information on, belonged to the killer?
The only official thing I have heard is the mentioning of the vehicle at the 2019 PC and then nothing since?

No, it is NOT for certain as far as we in the public know, that the car at the CPS building was the killer's! I'm not sure if it was even there until 5 pm. The killer is assumed by most to have hightailed it out of there immediately after the crime IMO.

 

[Angels27]

In 2017 why was it necessary to physically stumble upon the bridge?

Let's say Abby and Libby had indeed been catfished. And that person lived in Nebraska. He had never visited Indiana previously until February 13, 2017. Seemingly the followers of this case would be more willing to accept and understand that scenario, than of an aspiring perpetrator who targeted isolated areas including trails, becoming well aware of Monon High Bridge via that method.

IMO, the new realities of security cameras all over the place, plus DNA as the great identifier, are naturally going to lead to evolution of one-time killers as well as serial killers. They have to adjust to the times. For whatever reason we are determined to rely on conclusions and methodology of olden eras.

As a handicapper, if I switched professions to killer I know darn well I'd make sure I would only kill somebody I didn't know. I'd make darn sure I'd kill somebody in an area that I couldn't be connected to. I'd make darn sure it was an area without cameras and where I could prepare and take my time to make sure not to leave DNA. I'd make sure there was an easy getaway route so that I'd be long gone before the victim was discovered and anyone was looking for a killer.

Those are only a handful of variables. Seemingly so easy to prioritize. Yet law enforcement and the vast percentage of the public prefers to believe that each and every one of them is being thrown away:

Hey, I know her. I'll kill her. I'll kill her just after catfishing her. I'll kill her after catfishing her in an area where I live and am well known. I'll kill her after catfishing her in an area where I live and am well known and I'll do so on a school snow day after telling everyone I know that I'm well aware it's a school snow day.

And so forth. I just don't get it. These guys are specialists. Just because they are specialists in an evil realm that the rest of us can't relate to doesn't mean we should ignore that they are specialists and devoting the 10,000 hours toward their craft.

This guy or guys planned this at least one day (maybe more) in advance. Probably had zip ties or rope to subdue one while attacking and killing the other. Most likely had a gun, which would explain why they went along compliantly without running. He’s probably done it before. The big question is, has he done it again, after 2/17? And if not, why? 4 years is a long time. Maybe left town and did it again somewhere else.

Was he ‘killing’ someone else in his mind by killing these girls near Valentines Day? Someone who scorned him?

if he was just some SM creeper cyberstalking one of the girls and wanted to rape her, why kill them both unless he could be IDed? I think he’s done it before. And if he wanted to do it again probably left town and moved on to his next hunting ground.

 

[Angels27]

Respectfully snipped.

Here, I think, it is something similar. The perp. was close to the girls' orbit, but not in it, and was connected to someone who knew them. This is why he is not noticed, nor did they recognize him,, he is one person away from them. And that one person is not even considered, because, like Jessop's wife, it is a woman?

JMO

Could very well be like some creepy neighbor or the husband or older son of one of their sports coaches or teachers. Or a classmates creepy uncle that watches them from a distance. That town has a higher than the national average amount of registered sex offenders too.

I don’t think it’s a one off tho. Planning it, parking the car away from crime scene, setting up the lair, bringing the probable zip ties or rope and the fatal weapon, actually killing them, etc. seems like the work of someone who has done this before and will most likely do it again. And the fact that he left at 5 pm (if the vehicle parked at building is in fact perps) and committed this crime in broad daylight in a public place with others nearby, makes me think he lives with either a wife, roommate, kid, or parents and could not risk bringing them to his house.

 

[sandy_80]

I have a totally different explanation. He was given a sheet of paper, and told, “you have to deliver. Scare him into confiding”. So “delivered” he did, but DC is a very bad actor, and it showed.

the worst crime pc performance I have ever seen award

 

[ShamelessObserver]

Just MOO but I think BG is a lot skinnier than he looks on the video. I think he's wearing at least 4 layers to make it seem like he may be chubbier than he is. Again MOO but when I look at his jeans, they seem baggy and also like they have things stuffed under them, particularly his right leg as you look at images of BG.

Why is he wearing so many layers when it was a warm day? He has a jacket on, a scarf, potentially a hoodie and then potentially a jumper or shirt underneath it all. MOO

 

[ShamelessObserver]

Here's something I wondered about and I don't know if it has been mentioned before. If it has then sorry for repeating old stuff again.

I have seen loads of people say this guy may have stalked their social media, but as far as I can see nobody has mentioned how he could have done so on SnapChat. Up until December 2017 (so after the girls died) there was a function on SnapChat where you could add people who were nearby. So for example I live in an apartment building and I remember seeing this function and it showed me who else in the building was on SnapChat.

I did NOT have to add them to see their SnapChat names, it just displayed them. Wasn't Libby's name on SnapChat just her full name? If it was then by checking 'Add Nearby' this guy would've been able to see her full name in advance. I don't know if Abby was on there but again if she was it would show her SnapChat name. This creep could've checked their FaceBook pages with their SnapChat names too. But if they were both on SnapChat with GPS location turned on, he would've known that there were two girls out there (potentially) alone.

Is Add nearby still on Snapchat?

What say the killer was waiting around, constantly checking 'Add Nearby' on his SnapChat for potential victims and for a few hours nobody came up. Then, up popped the two girls and he chose his victims.

Has nobody thought of this?? It was taken down by SnapChat in December 2017.