Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[Charlot123]

This guy or guys planned this at least one day (maybe more) in advance. Probably had zip ties or rope to subdue one while attacking and killing the other. Most likely had a gun, which would explain why they went along compliantly without running. He’s probably done it before. The big question is, has he done it again, after 2/17? And if not, why? 4 years is a long time. Maybe left town and did it again somewhere else.

Was he ‘killing’ someone else in his mind by killing these girls near Valentines Day? Someone who scorned him?

if he was just some SM creeper cyberstalking one of the girls and wanted to rape her, why kill them both unless he could be IDed? I think he’s done it before. And if he wanted to do it again probably left town and moved on to his next hunting ground.

Because maybe he coveted just one. And the other one was a red herring.

Maybe it was the best situation of abducting he ever got, if he were stalking them for days?

Think of this. If he is, indeed, local, but everyone thinks he targets Libby, then it brings in several of her circles to check, plus those of Abby. Time is lost.

And if he wants Abby, then again, double work for the LE, checking Abby’s circles and Libby’s ones.

And then, everyone is checking the connections with Iowa double murders, more time, again.

Will he do it again? He is a Scorpio. I don’t mean, by horoscope, but by nature. He might, whenever he needs to. And he enjoys it. And he can plan for years.

 

[Rural_PC]

"Once secured by law enforcement, no. I would surmise that the searchers did not immediately know what they had come upon."

I would like to discuss the above quote. What are some reasons searchers, who were at the time looking for two missing girls, saw something and "did not immediately know what they had come upon"?

Distance? Does he simply mean they were too far away, and upon getting closer were able to ID the girls?
Were the girls buried either fully or partially?
Gruesome, bloody and indistinguishable?
Other reasons?

 

[Charlot123]

"Once secured by law enforcement, no. I would surmise that the searchers did not immediately know what they had come upon."

I would like to discuss the above quote. What are some reasons searchers, who were at the time looking for two missing girls, saw something and "did not immediately know what they had come upon"?

Distance? Does he simply mean they were too far away, and upon getting closer were able to ID the girls?
Were the girls buried either fully or partially?
Gruesome, bloody and indistinguishable?
Other reasons?

To me, the simplest explanation is “murders disguised as the work of a serial killer; IRL, plain murders”.

Or, “staging of a scene where one person dies in the process; when looked closer, the changes appear inflicted postmortem”.

 

[OverTheRhine]

I assume it's because they were far away. It is documented that they zoomed in from afar (I believe on the other side of the creek) with their phone. They are rumored to have spotted deer in the area and used the phone to zoom in on the deer and came upon the bodies. They may have not know if it was human remains, animal remains, or what it was at all.

 

[Seattle1]

"Once secured by law enforcement, no. I would surmise that the searchers did not immediately know what they had come upon."

I would like to discuss the above quote. What are some reasons searchers, who were at the time looking for two missing girls, saw something and "did not immediately know what they had come upon"?

Distance? Does he simply mean they were too far away, and upon getting closer were able to ID the girls?
Were the girls buried either fully or partially?
Gruesome, bloody and indistinguishable?
Other reasons?

I believe it was most likely distance.

During the HLN DTH special, parts 1 & 2, it was disclosed that the girls were first located after a searcher used their camera (with focus/view finder).

 

[MistyWaters]

"Once secured by law enforcement, no. I would surmise that the searchers did not immediately know what they had come upon."

I would like to discuss the above quote. What are some reasons searchers, who were at the time looking for two missing girls, saw something and "did not immediately know what they had come upon"?

Distance? Does he simply mean they were too far away, and upon getting closer were able to ID the girls?
Were the girls buried either fully or partially?
Gruesome, bloody and indistinguishable?
Other reasons?

The question that was answered adds context as well as it was in direct response to discovery of the crime scene.

Post 475
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129
In the public domain there have been descriptions of the crime scene, descriptions of items found, and the positioning of the bodies. Do you feel there was an excessive number of persons present once it was determined to be a crime scene? Once secured by law enforcement, no. I would surmise that the searchers did not immediately know what they had come upon.

 

[Snoop Sister]

"Once secured by law enforcement, no. I would surmise that the searchers did not immediately know what they had come upon."
Were the girls buried either fully or partially?
Gruesome, bloody and indistinguishable?
Other reasons?

Snipped by me
The scene has been described as so disturbing like no other, weird, odd and so forth. LE have also stated the crime scene still keeps some up at night...something that they will never be able to unsee. The latter is from podcasts chapter 2 - link previously posted.
I have no idea what the crime scene was like but the thought of it after hearing so much about it, kinda freaks me out.

 

[Yemelyan]

Thank you @Yemelyan. I also understood the response by Sheriff was to be continued -- not all questions were answered in the first report by "Comet" newspaper.

Yes, the rest are to be published next week in a separate article, or that's my understanding.

 

[Rural_PC]

I believe it was most likely distance.

During the HLN DTH special, parts 1 & 2, it was disclosed that the girls were first located after a searcher used their camera (with focus/view finder).

Yes, and I remember that. What is puzzling to me is that in that moment, if searchers were looking for two girls and saw ANYTHING out of the ordinary, would they not IMMEDIATELY then close the distance and see the girls? Or was something else going on?

 

[Yemelyan]

Yes, and I remember that. What is puzzling to me is that in that moment, if searchers were looking for two girls and saw ANYTHING out of the ordinary, would they not IMMEDIATELY then close the distance and see the girls? Or was something else going on?

I think the search group with the person who sighted them through the camera on his phone was actually still on the other side of the creek (the side with Libby's shoe) when this happened. I think it was said in Scene of the Crime that they shouted to searchers on the other side to alert them. Perhaps those searchers were LE, since TL has now told us that the scene was secured "almost immediately."

 

[Skully]

Yes, and I remember that. What is puzzling to me is that in that moment, if searchers were looking for two girls and saw ANYTHING out of the ordinary, would they not IMMEDIATELY then close the distance and see the girls? Or was something else going on?

Okay it is possible and most probable that when LE sent out searchers, they briefed them before letting them take off into the woods. One thing they may have told them was, "if you see any thing, don't touch it, or go near it, don't contaminate the evidence". I know many will say, but they were looking for 2 girls, alive, maybe lost in the woods; but you never know what you are going to find when you are on a search. If that searcher found a shoe, saw cloths in the water and then sees deer on the hill, and then his eyes see the bodies, he may have had the good sense not to go any closer, but call LE to the scene. I can tell you I have seen crime scenes and at first your brain has to adjust to what you are seeing, because it can be a shock to the "mind". There were times that I wasn't sure what I was seeing. If you are looking for 2 healthy girls, you think are just lost, then you come upon them, not moving, maybe on the ground, you may freeze. It is not what you are expecting. All JMO, not looking for a debate.

 

[goldiegirl]

Does anyone else think he wasn’t intentionally looking for child victims? And so the day off from school was coincidental? Per their FBI posters, both girls were 5’4”. Both had on pants and jackets. From a distance they could’ve been a huge age range. Maybe he saw them from a distance and once he decided they were going to be his victims, he was too mentally committed once he was close enough to realize they were younger than he first thought. Or he was too focused on what he was doing to even think about their ages.

This has actually never occurred to me, because I was so hung up on the fact that he knew who he was meeting. But now that you mention it, these girls were taller than all the women in my family and most of my female friends as adults. Had any of us been out on that bridge there wouldn't have been a way to distinguish between us as adults or young teens from a distance.

 

[goldiegirl]

If Libby’s sister dropped them off at around 1:30 and when Libby’s dad went to pick them up and called Libby at 3:30, there was no answer on her phone, I think they were grabbed really quickly in broad daylight. This IMO took preplanning and he was hiding somewhere waiting for a victim(s) and the girls were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

What time was their photo posted to Snapchat?

 

[coastal]

Yeah, or maybe the local news mentioned it. So he moves fast to plan this attack. What kind of guy has the whole day free to just disappear off the grid and murder people. That’s the big question they need to ask. Who in that town knows some adult male who just sits around all day with 5-8 hours to spare? Was he a night shift guy? (Cop, hospital worker, convenience store clerk, grocery or retail store stocking guy, office cleaner, truck driver, night security guard, road construction worker? Self-employed (gave himself the day off), farmer, manager, business owner, etc? He left at 5. Did he have to beat someone else home? Maybe a wife or parent? Was he a college student with the day off. Was he unemployed. Was he an out of town visitor staying with someone who worked til 5 or 6?

Custodian at the school?

 

[catch_22]

The whole camera zoom thing has always kind of bugged me. Smartphone cameras are good for selfies, and closer objects. They aren't really good for objects in the distance because they only have the capability of "digital zoom" which is just zooming in on the original picture, as opposed to "optical zoom" that uses lenses to actually zoom in on the object. It's like looking at a picture of a deer on your phonescreen.....with binoculars. As opposed to just looking at the deer itself with binoculars. Plus, even if it was an overcast day, it still is often difficult to see your phone screen very well in daylight. I don't know. Maybe he is near-sighted and he could actually see more/better with his phone?

Maybe this guy was just bored, wasn't expecting to find anything, saw some deer, and decided to take a picture? Or maybe he made up the story about the deer because others had noticed that he had his phone out filming as he approached the crime scene.......before the crime scene was identified. I'm sure LE has looked into this guy. You hear stories (I'm sure rare) of killers trying to insert themselves into investigations, or be part of search parties, or whatever. I'm sure this kind of stuff is more of the exception than the rule, though.

 

[Snoop Sister]

What time was their photo posted to Snapchat?

Apparently, around 2 p.m. or shortly there after. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Also, if the cell reception was poor on the bridge, did the pics upload right away? Just something else to consider...

 

[minazoe]

I don’t know, maybe I’ve become somewhat desensitized to public PCs in general but as Superintendent of Indiana State Police, remember that DC is the highest ranking Police Officer in the state.

Wouldn’t we expect him to be highly skilled in the art of effective public delivery?

I can’t imagine him rising to the highest rank if he didn’t excel at his role or never mastered the #1 prerequisite of a good police officer - appropriate emotional control. Not to diminish the deaths of the two girls in any way but this is a man in charge of policing the entire State and so his responsibilities are far greater than the day-to-day Delphi investigation. So it reasonable to assume he was nervous wreck....or....was that the way he wanted it to appear in order to effectively reach out to his audience on an emotional level?

DC, Indiana Police Spokesperson -
'I'll start with I'm sorry'

He probably lost his sh$$...wouldn't you? he's not used to murder cases like this I can imagine him being very angry..and he's allowed...he was professional..but you could see he
was shaken..he is allowed this , it has nothing to do with his professionalism, its not like he started crying and saying he didn't know what to do..he was completely justified..especially if someone was taunting the PD. mOO

 

[Dotrat]

What time was their photo posted to Snapchat?

From this article it shows 2:07
'Epitome of evil': Delphi double murder still a mystery 3 years later

 

[catch_22]

Apparently, around 2 p.m. or shortly there after. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

That sounds right to me, but I really can't remember.

I want to say that maybe the time of that photo has never been definitive. Something to do with upload time vs. actual photo time? Or incorrect timestamp, or something? I'm sure someone else remembers. I want to say gray hughes (sp?) did a video on it and tried to determine the time using shadows. I thought the video was interesting and impressive, but I'm kind of a math, geometry, trigonometry nerd.

Edit: nevermind. The video I referenced was concerning a different picture.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Because maybe he coveted just one. And the other one was a red herring.

Maybe it was the best situation of abducting he ever got, if he were stalking them for days?

Think of this. If he is, indeed, local, but everyone thinks he targets Libby, then it brings in several of her circles to check, plus those of Abby. Time is lost.

And if he wants Abby, then again, double work for the LE, checking Abby’s circles and Libby’s ones.

And then, everyone is checking the connections with Iowa double murders, more time, again.

Will he do it again? He is a Scorpio. I don’t mean, by horoscope, but by nature. He might, whenever he needs to. And he enjoys it. And he can plan for years.

He's sophisticated like that, I think!