Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[Angels27]

I like this. BG had to be home by 5 for dinner. Or maybe 6. So he was expected home daily by that time, right? He worked during the days, or had some other routine that would lead to him returning home around dinner time. He couldn't risk messing up that routine, for alibi purposes.

Yes, that or someone in his household did and was soon to return home from work or college. Maybe this guy works nights and is typically still home at 5-6. Or maybe he’s a college student or unemployed even.

 

[Yemelyan]

Unless he knew them or followed them on social media or his kid or grandchild, wife or other relative or friend. Or if someone the girls knew like a friend or relative mentioned it in passing to the creep. Like maybe the girls talked about it the night before online or to a friend or relative and that person mentioned it to someone else. Like the dad knew he had to go pick them up right. Maybe he mentioned it to a coworker. It’s very possible one or many people knew well before they arrived. The grandfather of Libby said it was a “friend” or his that found the girls bodies right. I found that interesting.

I hear what you’re saying, but we definitely cannot rule out this was targeted, esp around Valentines Day and esp in light of that fact that it looks like they haven’t struck again, it to mention that this was clearly planned in advance.

Except for the fact that Leazenby just told us yesterday in the Carroll County Comet article that this crime was NOT planned and that the girls were "victims of circumstance or opportunity." If we accept that he's not lying to the public, then....not planned eliminates any scenario where he stalks them on social media, lures them on social media, overhears their plans and shows up to intercept them, etc.

 

[Yemelyan]

The “Vehicle”

They were careful not to mention anything about the vehicle parked at the abandoned building. The camera or witness probably didn’t get the license plate, if there was one. But notice how they did not say car. I wonder if it could tell us anything about the perp. Was it a delivery or work truck. Did it have any stickers or dents or chipped paint. Was it an odd color. Was it a tractor trailer, an RV, a beat up pick-up, a horse trailer? I wonder what else they know about it. They probably have model, make and color. And with modern database sharing that’s a lot especially in such a small town. They should check with MVA to get a list or all vehicles of that type that transferred titles in the months before or after killings. This whole thing makes me wonder if they already know who it is but just can’t prove it. Although in the case or the the fitness trainer killed in the church, they had a car with stickers on a security camera too and I don’t think they ever caught that perp.

Bolded by me...LE did specifically call it a car when they released their clarification points on the day following the April press conference, for whatever that is worth:

Indiana State Police releases clarification points on Delphi murder suspect

 

[minazoe]

2 similar sets of children murdered plucked from a bike ride and left by a bridge area ..in Evansdale
2 more later in Delphi with more information left for the police this time...( way more).

possible taunting by an emboldened killer.

I don't care what y'all say..the two cases are connected even if there is no evidence of it being so. why is this? because the bodies were undiscovered for quite a long time and there are ZERO clues.

they have to find more clues. they have to.

mOO

 

[Angels27]

I think many people are assuming it is the vehicle of the killer. There is no definitive proof of any such thing? Who reported seeing the car anyway?

We don’t know if it was a security camera or an eyewitness. It would make sense to assume they highly suspect it was the perp’s vehicle for the following reasons, and if...


1. No one ever parked there and this vehicle did

2. especially on that day and especially between those hours. The perfect amount of time, I might add, to plan, hunt and execute such a crime and move and/or hide the bodies, bury under leaves for example, and walk back to said vehicle.

3. No one has come forward yet to claim ownership, despite the public knowing about it and LE’s request for info.

4. The positioning of the park in a place removed from the trails and other normal parking areas for said trails.

5. LE requesting the public’s help at the PC and giving the specific hours the vehicle was there, also alerting any family members or friends of potential perp as to his having “gone missing” during those hours on that specific
date.

6. Many others. Too tired to think right now. Feel free to add more if you think of any.

 

[OverTheRhine]

I don't care what y'all say..the two cases are connected even if there is no evidence of it being so. why is this? because the bodies were undiscovered for quite a long time and there are ZERO clues.
mOO

It took over 3 years for LE to arrest Kevin Sweat for the double murder of 2 similarly aged girls in OK. If he had never been caught, I wonder if people would be associating that case with the Evansdale and Delphi murders? Evansdale is 6.5 hours away from Delphi. I just find it hard to believe that same killer just happened to be at this remote location at the exact time Abby and Libby were.

I've tried to convince myself that this man knew at least one of the girls. That he knew they would be there. It's hard to wrap my head around the fact that the window of opportunity is just so unbelievably small. By the time they arrived there, their exact destination from the arrival leads them to their deaths in such perceivably calculated manner. But unfortunately sometimes people just get very unlucky. I truly believe now that this was an opportunistic murder for this man and they just happened to be there at exactly the wrong time. He probably went to the bridge that day knowing someone was going to be a victim, just not who. I think his tendencies reflect that of the one/s who killed 3 young boys in Arkansas. I believe they have very similar fantasies, desires, and motive.

 

[Yemelyan]

We don’t know if it was a security camera or an eyewitness. It would make sense to assume they highly suspect it was the perp’s vehicle for the following reasons, and if...


1. No one ever parked there and this vehicle did

2. especially on that day and especially between those hours. The perfect amount of time, I might add, to plan, hunt and execute such a crime and move and/or hide the bodies, bury under leaves for example, and walk back to said vehicle.

3. No one has come forward yet to claim ownership, despite the public knowing about it and LE’s request for info.

4. The positioning of the park in a place removed from the trails and other normal parking areas for said trails.

5. LE requesting the public’s help at the PC and giving the specific hours the vehicle was there, also alerting any family members or friends of potential perp as to his having “gone missing” during those hours on that specific
date.

6. Many others. Too tired to think right now. Feel free to add more if you think of any.

I'm not disagreeing that the vehicle has importance but you have some assumptions here that may or may not be true....

1. We don't know that "no one ever parked there" - if you look at this building on Google Earth you'll see that you can walk right onto the trails from the parking lot. Just because the building was abandoned, IMO, does not mean people didn't continue to use the lot to park when walking the trails, as the area at the Mary Gerrard Preserve (where the girls were dropped off) didn't hold many cars.

To your point 3, "no one has ever come forward" - how on earth could any of us know this. LE, who has been so tight-lipped about the investigation, would never release this IMO whether they found it was related or unrelated. They have stopped asking about it so one could assume perhaps that someone did come forward. This may not have been a POI but a witness.

4. It wasn't removed from the trails, it was immediately adjacent to the trail as stated in point 1.

 

[goldiegirl]

It took over 3 years for LE to arrest Kevin Sweat for the double murder of 2 similarly aged girls in OK. If he had never been caught, I wonder if people would be associating that case with the Evansdale and Delphi murders? Evansdale is 6.5 hours away from Delphi. I just find it hard to believe that same killer just happened to be at this remote location at the exact time Abby and Libby were.

I've tried to convince myself that this man knew at least one of the girls. That he knew they would be there. It's hard to wrap my head around the fact that the window of opportunity is just so unbelievably small. By the time they arrived there, their exact destination from the arrival leads them to their deaths in such perceivably calculated manner. But unfortunately sometimes people just get very unlucky. I truly believe now that this was an opportunistic murder for this man and they just happened to be there at exactly the wrong time. He probably went to the bridge that day knowing someone was going to be a victim, just not who. I think his tendencies reflect that of the one/s who killed 3 young boys in Arkansas. I believe they have very similar fantasies, desires, and motive.

True. I remember that case well, and I'm sure I would have thought they were all related. Up until recently I've been convinced these other two are. I'm still not entirely unconvinced but am less likely to make the assumptions that I did before.

 

[Charlot123]

Maybe they did, but it was thwarted.

Yes, either that, the second guy, or they knew it won't work.

 

[Angels27]

from the absolute teeth rattling nerves seen in the presser with C , I just feel so strongly now that
BG called in or left a message somehow and said something about the girls "condition". maybe just before the presser...which would make sense. It just fits..because Carter was sending a message back to him and he was a nervous wreck. Seriously this man was SHAKEN. mOO

Very good point. Something definitely was up with him. He was 2 seconds away from snapping. Almost pulling his hair out.

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t know, do you have a link? I don’t recall the specific location of their residences ever being publicly disclosed.

If it was that close it would seem Libby’s dad would’ve driven over there when they weren’t at the pickup spot because a mile isn’t a long distance to walk. But no mention of that.

I don't know why he didn't, I assume, maybe because no one thought of any bad scenario at that time, so he behaved like he usually would have.

 

[Angels27]

Does anyone else think he wasn’t intentionally looking for child victims? And so the day off from school was coincidental? Per their FBI posters, both girls were 5’4”. Both had on pants and jackets. From a distance they could’ve been a huge age range. Maybe he saw them from a distance and once he decided they were going to be his victims, he was too mentally committed once he was close enough to realize they were younger than he first thought. Or he was too focused on what he was doing to even think about their ages.

I think these perps always prefer kids for many reasons, a big one being they are far easier to capture and manipulate both mentally and physically. Also during the day esp a day off of school it’s far more likely there’d be kids there than adults who are most likely busy at work.

 

[Angels27]

True. I remember that case well, and I'm sure I would have thought they were all related. Up until recently I've been convinced these other two are. I'm still not entirely unconvinced but am less likely to make the assumptions that I did before.

Unfortunately for every registered sex offender there are a million more who never got caught much less convicted. They say the average perp has molested at least 60 kids before ever getting caught. There are a lot more violent, unstable, evil and/or hateful people around than most people believe, I think. And a lot of seemingly “normal” people can turn at any time, based on life events, etc. so it’s easy to associate one with another, but remember there are many. Many more than you can ever possibly imagine.

 

[Charlot123]

Except for the fact that Leazenby just told us yesterday in the Carroll County Comet article that this crime was NOT planned and that the girls were "victims of circumstance or opportunity." If we accept that he's not lying to the public, then....not planned eliminates any scenario where he stalks them on social media, lures them on social media, overhears their plans and shows up to intercept them, etc.

Let us put it so. He said "persons-specific" in one interview and says "victims of circumstances and opportunity" in another. If he is not lying, and it might be so that it was the truth, then one has to ask Leazenby about specific circumstances that made the girls victims.

 

[Yemelyan]

Let us put it so. He said "persons-specific" in one interview and says "victims of circumstances and opportunity" in another. If he is not lying, and it might be so that it was the truth, then one has to ask Leazenby about specific circumstances that made the girls victims.

Yeah. I always go by the rule of thumb that if LE says two things that seem contradictory, I go by what they said most recently as it reflects greater knowledge of the situation and intelligence developed over time.

 

[Spartygirl]

Yes, that or someone in his household did and was soon to return home from work or college. Maybe this guy works nights and is typically still home at 5-6. Or maybe he’s a college student or unemployed even.

I don't know
Girls were dropped off at 1:30-1:45 and DG went to pick them at 3:30 and Libby did not answer.
That tells me it was over pretty quick.
I do not see BG hanging around until 5-6 PM in the area
JMO

 

[Angels27]

I know it is really none of my business and it will eventually come out in court, but I can’t get past the crime scene as being described as very weird and odd. I have heard people allude to this more than once. Robert Ives (original prosecutor on the case) for one, states the latter and further indicates that the crime scene is not what one would imagine. There were a variety of things that were not normal. Moreover, he states that there is more to it than just the murder. His views can be heard on the Down the Hill podcasts (chapter 6 and 10).
I think if people have time, by listening to the podcasts, much more info can be gleaned there regarding the murders than other info posted to date.

I am wondering since many people in that area are religious, could one of the signatures have a religious motif? The crime scene apparently is not that far from the cemetery...not sure if this is relevant.



https://www.downthehillpodcast.com/

Thanks for this. Great post. If BG was trying to send some kind of message you’d have to wonder why. Was it directed at some female around Valentines Day, known or unknown to one or both of the victims? Was he a ritualistic serial killer? Does he have some religious hang ups? Is he commenting on something these, or kids in general tend to post on SM that he doesn’t approve of?

 

[TL4S]

Let us put it so. He said "persons-specific" in one interview and says "victims of circumstances and opportunity" in another. If he is not lying, and it might be so that it was the truth, then one has to ask Leazenby about specific circumstances that made the girls victims.

IMO, the Flora fire girls were the victims of circumstance. I believe LE has said they didn't think those girls were killed intentionally. The Delphi girls were murdered, the victims of opportunity. JMO

 

[Angels27]

If Libby’s sister dropped them off at around 1:30 and when Libby’s dad went to pick them up and called Libby at 3:30, there was no answer on her phone, I think they were grabbed really quickly in broad daylight. This IMO took preplanning and he was hiding somewhere waiting for a victim(s) and the girls were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Does anyone if there was an out building close to bridge he could have hid in before, during or after crime?

 

[Beachlife926]

Except for the fact that Leazenby just told us yesterday in the Carroll County Comet article that this crime was NOT planned and that the girls were "victims of circumstance or opportunity." If we accept that he's not lying to the public, then....not planned eliminates any scenario where he stalks them on social media, lures them on social media, overhears their plans and shows up to intercept them, etc.

IMO
Crime of opportunity: crime that is committed without planning when the perpetrator sees that they have a chance to commit the act at that moment and seizes it.
- since BG seemed prepared with possible tools to commit the murder, I don’t see it being a crime of opportunity (and not aware of anyone hunting/working or someone that would have the tools)

Victims of circumstance: an individual who suffers from ill consequences because of factors that were out of his control
- best example: criminal chose random house to rob but owner is home. Pertaining to the case, IF it was going to happen regardless and they happen to be the victim, then I can only think of a lying and wait type scenario. I’m sure you can think of more scenarios but I couldn’t.

Does his answer really rule out everything we think it does?
(I’m not referring to SM and admit I’m probably bias since I think it’s someone who knew they would at the bridge)

I think I missed some posts so I’ll go back and see if it’s already been discussed but if not, what are the scenarios still possible after his statement?
ETA: IMO