Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

[Yemelyan]

I don't know much about murder statistics or behaviors, but I imagine the murderers in a heightened state, almost like a high. Whether out of rage, fear, or the thrill, I picture adrenaline surging the killer forward, especially in these quick killings. Maybe things happen in a sort of frenzy? I don't mean the killer isn't in control, but just physically and emotionally heightened?

IMO, this is definitely a key to it.

And it may go hand in hand with the fact I cited yesterday that a significant number of the perpetrators return to the scene. Obviously we don't know everything they do when they return but are they re-living that high, checking to see that they didn't make mistakes with evidence at the scene, perpetrating further crimes against the now-deceased victim? It can be any and all of these IMO

 

[TL4S]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> since we don't know what his "signatures" were, we likely can't glean much information about him from them.

I will admit, I wouldn't be too surprised if he's an odd person, though, considering the "unusual" element that Ives describes...

 

[TL4S]

IMO, this is definitely a key to it.

And it may go hand in hand with the fact I cited yesterday that a significant number of the perpetrators return to the scene. Obviously we don't know everything they do when they return but are they re-living that high, checking to see that they didn't make mistakes with evidence at the scene, perpetrating further crimes against the now-deceased victim? It can be any and all of these IMO

I would imagine a killer closely following the case for similar reasons. Of course he wants to see if LE might be on his trail, but maybe there are secondary highs watching all the media coverage?

 

[Yemelyan]

I agree. And since we don't know what his "signatures" were, we likely can't glean much information about him from them.

I will admit, I wouldn't be too surprised if he's an odd person, though, considering the "unusual" element that Ives describes...

I agree with you, I won't be surprised either.

I think the idea of a sophisticated mastermind who commits a murder and then slips right back into his regular life with no sign that he is different from you or I or even feels remorse is an idea that looms large in the mind of the public because the thought that there are murderers out there with these traits is really freaking scary. I don't say, certainly that there aren't some proportion of killers like this. However, the majority of them - especially those that prey on child victims - do have previous sexual problems, previous known mental problems, substance abuse, etc. There are very often indicators of "odd" behaviors prior to the crime. IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't know much about murder statistics or behaviors, but I imagine murderers in a heightened state, almost like a high. Whether out of rage, fear, or the thrill, I picture adrenaline surging the killer forward, especially in these quick killings. Maybe things happen in a sort of frenzy? I don't mean the killer isn't in control, but just physically and emotionally heightened?

This is what I’d imagine as well, why it was quick. If fantasy is a driving factor, the memories from that heightened state while committing the crime are later, what’s the word....changed, altered, recreated?....made to fit whatever it is buried in the imagination of the killer that motivates the killer to do such a horrible act. If so the murders are a means to seek his pleasure, as disgusting as it is to call it that, but his fantasy remains with him after the fact.

JMO

 

[Peppery]

It was said in a Gray Hughes video, a trusted caller said the killer was there longer than you'd think and was in the area when Libby's dad arrived and was looking around for the girls. Possibly killer hung around longer because he was looking around for Libby's phone?

Starting at 2 hrs 2:40 ...

Who decided the caller could be trusted? GH or LE? How did this person know he was still in the area when DG arrived? That’s huge information I’ve never heard before.

 

[Peppery]

They've been begging for the public's help in IDing BG by the sound of his voice.

If this is the beginning sequence of events,

Who said, "Guys, ... ?"
Maybe BG then gives a command that we hear as glass breaking static.

Perhaps, BG offers s/t like, "Guys, they're headed your way." Or, "Guys, you can't get away." Then, we hear the infamous:

"Down the Hill."

It's bone chilling, really. Those brave, precious, pretty, young girls, RIP.

GreyHuze stated he can share that Abby is heard on the audio asking, "Is that a gun?" If true, and there's every reason to believe it is, then the firearm is how control over 2 girls was managed.
.

I’ve always thought a gun was used to control them but how does GH know this for a fact? Who told him? Why wasn’t this ever reported?

 

[Yemelyan]

Who decided the caller could be trusted? GH or LE? How did this person know he was still in the area when DG arrived? That’s huge information I’ve never heard before.

I know that GH is considered an approved source for this case, but this raises a lot of questions, IMO. How was this "trusted caller" vetted? We have no way to judge the accuracy of this information and I personally feel that it should be treated as a rumor.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree with you, I won't be surprised either.

I think the idea of a sophisticated mastermind who commits a murder and then slips right back into his regular life with no sign that he is different from you or I or even feels remorse is an idea that looms large in the mind of the public because the thought that there are murderers out there with these traits is really freaking scary. I don't say, certainly that there aren't some proportion of killers like this. However, the majority of them - especially those that prey on child victims - do have previous sexual problems, previous known mental problems, substance abuse, etc. There are very often indicators of "odd" behaviors prior to the crime. IMO

I agree, which is why I think LE continues to emphasize that “somebody knows this guy”. It’s beyond somebody who physically resembles the photo, video, or sketch...it’s a person who also exhibits “off” behaviour from time to time, indicating he’s capable of committing senseless violence against innocent teens. If his brain is wired toward such a despicable act, I believe it’s impossible nobody who knows him has the slightest inkling.

Just another comment - Early on LE was heavily criticized for arresting people related to other minor crimes or outstanding warrants who came to their attention during the investigation of this case. But I’d always wondered if they hoped an unknown suspect might get caught in that same net. JMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I agree with you, I won't be surprised either.

I think the idea of a sophisticated mastermind who commits a murder and then slips right back into his regular life with no sign that he is different from you or I or even feels remorse is an idea that looms large in the mind of the public because the thought that there are murderers out there with these traits is really freaking scary. I don't say, certainly that there aren't some proportion of killers like this. However, the majority of them - especially those that prey on child victims - do have previous sexual problems, previous known mental problems, substance abuse, etc. There are very often indicators of "odd" behaviors prior to the crime. IMO

I like to put 3 questions here:
Who in general is most likely to be forgiven for strange behavior, let us say: for the/his last 15-20 years?
What qualities do you have to have in order for people to excuse strange behavior?
What connections to upper-graded people do you have to reach to be forgiven strange behavior?
(I'm speaking of a curriculum vitae before the Delphi crime.)
There is a certain reason, that LE (DC?) said, the locals would be shocked, when they will learn the truth (similar wording).

 

[MKind]

Food for thought.

If after 4 years, the locals in Delphi, and the brightest minds in federal law enforcement and possibly Hollywood video technology, could not figure out who this guy is, maybe the girls didn’t recognize him either. Maybe he was known to them, but for some reason: distance, disguise, having their heads turned, etc. they didn’t recognize him, but maybe not because he was a stranger. I read somewhere that Libby may have been recording while her back was turned to the guy. That would make sense. If he saw the phone, he would have taken it.

And that’s another thing. Why didn’t he take the phone. Was he in a hurry. Surely he knew young girls would have phones with them. Weird he didn’t even think about that.

I have been thinking about that a lot lately. We know Libby's phone was found, that's how we got the audio and video of the suspect, but I haven't heard anyone say anything about Abby's phone. Was it found with her? Do police have it? Or is it missing?

 

[Laughing]

I like to put 3 questions here:
Who in general is most likely to be forgiven for strange behavior, let us say: for the/his last 15-20 years?
What qualities do you have to have in order for people to excuse strange behavior?
What connections to upper-graded people do you have to reach to be forgiven strange behavior?
(I'm speaking of a curriculum vitae before the Delphi crime.)
There is a certain reason, that LE (DC?) said, the locals would be shocked, when they will learn the truth (similar wording).

"just like his Uncle Stanley, just sayin' "
"not been the same since (insert military action) and then the Army was done with him and 'round here we all know the VA is no help"
"not the same since his Mama died in that car accident & he lived"
"too many hits on his noggin winning that State Championship for the high school"
"he was just fine before those lowlifes introduced him to dope"
"he's a fine fella when he's sober"
"since that beam fell on him in the plant and even the Union couldn't help him"

just a few that come to mind from small town living. I'm sure there are others!

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[MistyWaters]

I like to put 3 questions here:
Who in general is most likely to be forgiven for strange behavior, let us say: for the/his last 15-20 years?
What qualities do you have to have in order for people to excuse strange behavior?
What connections to upper-graded people do you have to reach to be forgiven strange behavior?
(I'm speaking of a curriculum vitae before the Delphi crime.)
There is a certain reason, that LE (DC?) said, the locals would be shocked, when they will learn the truth (similar wording).

“He said when an arrest is made, which he believes will happen, community members will likely be shocked at the identity of those arrested.”
Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

Just my opinion but I think we get led down the garden path if we assume LE know who committed this crime and whatever they say, they’re dropping clues to help us guess who it is - even though we also know this is still an unsolved double homicide case.

Leazenby used the words “he believes” and “will likely” - he did not say “locals will be shocked”. He’s free to say whatever he wants by clearly stating it’s his opinion and what might be possible. But in this statement he’s not declaring it as a fact. JMO

 

[minazoe]

whew, catching up..

as for all the sounds heard on the audio..breaking glass etc...

did they scream? of course they did..wouldn't you? this is not what we have been asked to speculate about. we are supposed to focus on his voice.

this is not a scary movie, its a real event with real people..

while the subjects of staging and signature are interesting, the subjects of posing and screaming and mutilation, I don't think this kind of speculation is helpful because we really know nothing about the crime scene...even though it is described as horrific..the mere fact of it is horrific on it's face. I feel it's kind of exploitative of the girls to speculate and linger on these gruesome possibilities when we don't know the facts.

next I had a thought..if the girls actually remarked about seeing that weird guy again or whatever...what if they recognized him NOT from earlier on the trail. BUT from somewhere else , like on their street or the last time they went out..?????

mOO

 

[Peppery]

I have been thinking about that a lot lately. We know Libby's phone was found, that's how we got the audio and video of the suspect, but I haven't heard anyone say anything about Abby's phone. Was it found with her? Do police have it? Or is it missing?

Abby did not have a phone

 

[MKind]

Abby did not have a phone

Okay thank you.

 

[TL4S]

“He said when an arrest is made, which he believes will happen, community members will likely be shocked at the identity of those arrested.”
Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

Just my opinion but I think we get led down the garden path if we assume LE know who committed this crime and whatever they say, they’re dropping clues to help us guess who it is - even though we also know this is still an unsolved double homicide case.

Leazenby used the words “he believes” and “will likely” - he did not say “locals will be shocked”. He’s free to say whatever he wants by clearly stating it’s his opinion and what might be possible. But in this statement he’s not declaring it as a fact. JMO

My interpretation of TL's comment is that if LE thinks the killer is local and still walking amongst the community, then bank tellers, grocery clerks, neighbors, coworkers, etc. would be shocked and unnerved to finally discover this person(s), with whom they are in regular contact, has committed these horrible crimes.

Imagine finding out you had just served coffee to, chatted with, or accepted money from a freaking child murderer. *chilling* JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

I like to put 3 questions here:
Who in general is most likely to be forgiven for strange behavior, let us say: for the/his last 15-20 years?
What qualities do you have to have in order for people to excuse strange behavior?
What connections to upper-graded people do you have to reach to be forgiven strange behavior?
(I'm speaking of a curriculum vitae before the Delphi crime.)
There is a certain reason, that LE (DC?) said, the locals would be shocked, when they will learn the truth (similar wording).

Echoing what others have said....it will be shocking when this individual is caught because no one thinks their town could harbor such a depraved person capable of an act like this. "It couldn't happen here." But every murderer, even every serial killer, had to come from somewhere and it can't always be a big city. It doesn't really need to be a person with high status to be shocking IMO.

Edited to add...I don't know whether the killer is from the Delphi community or not, but wherever he comes from there will be people saying "how could one of ours do that?" So that's part of the shocking piece that TL speaks to IMO.

 

[chaz]

My interpretation of TL's comment is that if LE thinks the killer is local and still walking amongst the community, then bank tellers, grocery clerks, neighbors, coworkers, etc. would be shocked and unnerved to finally discover this person(s), with whom they are in regular contact, has committed these horrible crimes.

Imagine finding out you had just served coffee to, chatted with, or accepted money from a freaking child murderer. *chilling* JMO

Or people will be shocked they never recognized him.

 

[Jovi Girl]

Does anyone think LE has someone on their radar but they don’t have enough evidence to arrest as of yet ?