Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

[TL4S]

We focus a lot on the town of Delphi but looking at google maps, the outlying areas are dotted with a lot of farms and acreages reaching out in every direction towards surrounding towns and cities.

So my first thought was somewhat of an unfair stereotype. I imagined a recluse who lives in a ramshackle house in the country near Delphi, ridden with junk, raises chickens and a few head of cattle. Not really a farmer but a jack-of-all-trades who makes do without requiring any additional income. Nobody keeps track of his comings and goings, he’s still living in the same house he was born in, he keeps to himself. The sort of introverted person who almost always walks looking downward. He’s familiar with the bridge, memories too as he spent time there on outings with family or friends as a child. Over time his isolation has grown into private perverted inclinations and alcohol gives him courage. People would describe him as “odd” but nobody really knows much about him anymore other than by sight. All JMO

Yeah, I don't think my initial picture of him was too far off from that, either. It's funny how the same blurry photo, a voice, and a Google map can lead us all in similar, or vastly different directions. And we're all probably wrong!

 

[TL4S]

Becky Patty:
A friend of ours was also in a search group that was across the creek, and he saw something. So, he took his phone and zoomed in, and it was a tie-dyed shirt. And he knew what Libby wore. And, uh, his wife she come back and she said they found the girls.

Snipped for focus:

I keep thinking about the phone zoom. If the girls were only 50 feet from the water almost directly across the creek (south of cemetery) from where the searchers were (maybe 200 feet away), would they really need to use a zoom to identify a tie-dye shirt? IDK.


The bodies of both girls were found shortly after noontime on Feb. 14, in a wooded area about 50 feet from Deer Creek and a half mile east of the bridge.
Delphi killings: What we know about killings of Abby and Libby

For the sake of argument, if you actually look at a 1/2 mile east of the bridge along the creek, there's a long low spot, like a beach, along the north side. Around 50 ft. from that edge would just barely put you in the wooded area, especially if the water was running higher. If the searchers were in the area beneath the bridge, as KG has described them being somewhere below the house that's at the end if the private drive (I believe she couldn't see them but said that's where they were in one of the interviews), then I'm wondering if they might have been able to see that beach area from their vantage point, maybe 1000 feet or less away. If so, spotting tie-tye just at the edge in the woods seems possible, and using a zoom for a better look seems likely. Jmo. I actually tried it today, looking that distance, through the woods. I could see things that far, but maybe wasn't sure what I was seeing without the use of a zoom. But at 200 feet, I could.

Depending on exactly where the searcher was standing, that beach would almost be a straight shot line of view, maybe even without much obstruction of trees. Jmo, but hard to tell from a map.

 

[Ozoner]

IMO this is certainly the simplest explanation.

In the met online scenario BG knowing to ask to meet at bridge means either he already knew of the place or if he did not know of the bridge he was provided directions.

If provided directions and unfamiliar, reasonable to assume he arrived plenty early to check out the area.
Maybe walked the bridge a few times.

LE has already debunked the met-online scenario. Sherriff Lazenby described the girls as victims of opportunity.

 

[Boxer]

LE has already debunked the met-online scenario. Sherriff Lazenby described the girls as victims of opportunity.

Can you point me to that statement? I missed it.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

When the killer is finally apprehended and convicted, whether or not he was already a serial killer probably depends on his age as well. Far less likelihood if he fell within the younger age range of the Delphi suspect (18 to 40). But in asking for tips, LE seem to firmly believe he’s highly capable of committing future homicides...ie serial killings.

Yet he isn’t a danger to anyone else in Delphi. And he is someone who lives in Delphi.
Still scratching my head about those statements made by LE.

mOO.

 

[Yemelyan]

Yet he isn’t a danger to anyone else in Delphi. And he is someone who lives in Delphi.
Still scratching my head about those statements made by LE.

mOO.

I don't think they've definitively said he lives in Delphi. They've listed that as a possibility along with previously lived there, works or previously worked there, or is familiar with Delphi. So that covers a lot of ground.

Also I don't think they've said the public is definitely not in danger. The sheriff has said he hopes no one in Delphi would live their lives in fear, looking over their shoulders every minute. But to me that's not the same thing. Other LE in the case have said numerous things indicating that, as this individual hasn't yet been apprehended, people need to maintain a state of awareness, especially over their children.

Edited to add: just wanted to bring forward these statements about the potential danger in the community. These span the time period from immediately after the bodies were found up until the three year mark:

"Be cautious and careful and be parents...know where your children are and what they are doing."

ISP: Delphi Amber Alert wouldn't have helped

Detective Kevin Hammond: "Things have changed for us all...I am more vigilant with my own children since this happened."
The best of humanity in the worst of times | Carroll County Comet/

Interviewer: "This community has never had a double homicide, Sergeant, from what I understand, and it has been years that Delphi, a community of 3000, has ever had a murder. What do you say to this community tonight because a...killer is on the loose, a double murderer?"

Sgt. Riley: "Well, we tell people, like we've been telling people since this has all started, you need to be safe out there. We are working 24/7 to try to solve this horrendous crime."

CNN.com - Transcripts

Three Years Later: Everything we know about the murders of Libby German & Abby Williams in Delphi
“I can’t say there’s not a threat to the community,” Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley told RTV6 at the time. "We have not caught the person yet. Is the person still in the community? We don’t know.”

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I don't think they've definitively said he lives in Delphi. They've listed that as a possibility along with previously lived there, works or previously worked there, or is familiar with Delphi. So that covers a lot of ground.

Also I don't think they've said the public is definitely not in danger. The sheriff has said he hopes no one in Delphi would live their lives in fear, looking over their shoulders every minute. But to me that's not the same thing. Other LE in the case have said numerous things indicating that, as this individual hasn't yet been apprehended, people need to maintain a state of awareness, especially over their children.

Edited to add: just wanted to bring forward these statements about the potential danger in the community. These span the time period from immediately after the bodies were found up until the three year mark:

"Be cautious and careful and be parents...know where your children are and what they are doing."

ISP: Delphi Amber Alert wouldn't have helped

Detective Kevin Hammond: "Things have changed for us all...I am more vigilant with my own children since this happened."
The best of humanity in the worst of times | Carroll County Comet/

Interviewer: "This community has never had a double homicide, Sergeant, from what I understand, and it has been years that Delphi, a community of 3000, has ever had a murder. What do you say to this community tonight because a...killer is on the loose, a double murderer?"

Sgt. Riley: "Well, we tell people, like we've been telling people since this has all started, you need to be safe out there. We are working 24/7 to try to solve this horrendous crime."

CNN.com - Transcripts

Three Years Later: Everything we know about the murders of Libby German & Abby Williams in Delphi
“I can’t say there’s not a threat to the community,” Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley told RTV6 at the time. "We have not caught the person yet. Is the person still in the community? We don’t know.”

I reached my conclusion from listening to this first PC, starting around minute 7, and 20 seconds:

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But I haven’t seen all of the pressers, nor have I read all of the threads, nor all of the articles published, nor have I listen to all of the podcasts, etc. and what not.
Perhaps my mind can be changed once I have a more broad scope all of the things that I listed above.
Thank you for sharing your (much more) knowledge opinion with me, again.

 

[Yemelyan]

I reached my conclusion from listening to this first PC, starting around minute 7, and 20 seconds:

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But I haven’t seen all of the pressers, nor have I read all of the threads, nor all of the articles published, nor have I listen to all of the podcasts, etc. and what not.
Perhaps my mind can be changed once I have a more broad scope all of the things that I listed above.
Thank you for sharing your (much more) knowledge opinion with me, again.

This press conference occurred just a few hours after the victims were found, before autopsy, before an investigative strategy had been ironed out, before anything. LE knew the community was exhausted and emotions were running high. For me, I don't take what LE says at first as gospel. Often when they have more facts and a strategy in place, the messaging changes.

 

[No it's not]

On a side note..re the NBG sketch/ sketch artist:

I ran into this video again today, published about a year ago and then updated app. 4 months later. The sketch artist, Trooper Taylor Bryant with Indiana State Police, talks about how he developed this sketch and others. Quite interesting.

Meet the sketch artist who helps ISP catch bad guys | whas11.com

-Nin

 

[Ariona]

I don't think they've definitively said he lives in Delphi. They've listed that as a possibility along with previously lived there, works or previously worked there, or is familiar with Delphi. So that covers a lot of ground.

Also I don't think they've said the public is definitely not in danger. The sheriff has said he hopes no one in Delphi would live their lives in fear, looking over their shoulders every minute. But to me that's not the same thing. Other LE in the case have said numerous things indicating that, as this individual hasn't yet been apprehended, people need to maintain a state of awareness, especially over their children.

Edited to add: just wanted to bring forward these statements about the potential danger in the community. These span the time period from immediately after the bodies were found up until the three year mark:

"Be cautious and careful and be parents...know where your children are and what they are doing."

ISP: Delphi Amber Alert wouldn't have helped

Detective Kevin Hammond: "Things have changed for us all...I am more vigilant with my own children since this happened."
The best of humanity in the worst of times | Carroll County Comet/

Interviewer: "This community has never had a double homicide, Sergeant, from what I understand, and it has been years that Delphi, a community of 3000, has ever had a murder. What do you say to this community tonight because a...killer is on the loose, a double murderer?"

Sgt. Riley: "Well, we tell people, like we've been telling people since this has all started, you need to be safe out there. We are working 24/7 to try to solve this horrendous crime."

CNN.com - Transcripts

Three Years Later: Everything we know about the murders of Libby German & Abby Williams in Delphi
“I can’t say there’s not a threat to the community,” Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley told RTV6 at the time. "We have not caught the person yet. Is the person still in the community? We don’t know.”

Thanks for the great info. Given it was a school free day (given a long weekend due to snow days) I wonder if the perp was familiar enough with the area to know this and thus that children would frequent the bridge? (if it was a crime of opportunity).

 

[Charlot123]

Yet he isn’t a danger to anyone else in Delphi. And he is someone who lives in Delphi.
Still scratching my head about those statements made by LE.

mOO.

Well, potentially, even if they were not victims of opportunity, and he had a motive other than sexual crime (such as: to cover own heinous act), he is still a person who removed two kids, one, a target, and another, a potential victim. He is a killer, he is very dangerous, and he’d be dangerous to any community.

 

[Charlot123]

A hindsight: he could have planned to kill both girls, although he needed to remove just one. Has anyone considered this version?

Imagine this: only one of the girls needs to be silenced, and only one is killed. Then, everyone starts looking at the people linked to that one. Who profits, why? Her life is under an electronic microscope.

Now, instead, she and her best friend are killed.

First, this instantly diversifies motives. They could be different for each girl. Their individual circles have to be checked, double work.

Also, immediately, the “victim of opportunity” (I still don’t fully believe it) gets more credence. And the sexual crime is more probable, and since such a crime is so rare, they try to investigate the connection between all similar crimes.

So I think that two were targeted intentionally. But only one was needed.

 

[Charlot123]

I would never wager on any profession based on what little we know, but I have to admit, when I first started following this case, my initial inclination was that he was a junker. It's stupid, I know, and I have no idea why I thought that, other than he might have his own hours, access to unregistered vehicles, various tools, casual dress, and likely be well familiar with the area. It might have even given him reason to be on the roads near the trail that day. JM(stupid)O.

My hunch was always the same. He can have any profession, but each time I look at that video, I have the same feeling: a hired assassin.

 

[Yemelyan]

Thanks for the great info. Given it was a school free day (given a long weekend due to snow days) I wonder if the perp was familiar enough with the area to know this and thus that children would frequent the bridge? (if it was a crime of opportunity).

We know these young teens ended up his victims but I don't think I have enough information to have an opinion on whether that age range was his preferred target or whether it just happened that way due to circumstance/availability.

If he goes there seeking a vulnerable female of any age, then the snow day becomes irrelevant. If investigators know more of his movements on that day than they have revealed, they may have a working theory on this. TL's comment in the Carroll County Comet Q&A that they were "victims of circumstance or opportunity" may indicate that they do.

I would also point out that if he first sighted them from a distance, the girls' ages might not have been totally clear. They might have looked like older teens, they might even have looked like mother and daughter from very far away. They were within the range of adult body sizes after all.

If you look at offenders who murder in series, you do sometimes see a single perpetrator with victims from a pretty wide age range. Not at all uncommon that adult women seem to be the preferred targets but a teen or child victim also was in the series just due to the opportunistic nature of how they select their victims.

 

[Ravenmoon]

My hunch was always the same. He can have any profession, but each time I look at that video, I have the same feeling: a hired assassin.

You really believe that someone put a professional hit out on one of these girls?
Why? I would really like to understand your thoughts?

AMOO JMO MOO

 

[Ozoner]

Can you point me to that statement? I missed it.

It was in the two-part Q&A in the Comet, which is linked a few pages back in the thread.

 

[Charlot123]

You really believe that someone put a professional hit out on one of these girls?
Why? I would really like to understand your thoughts?

AMOO JMO MOO

I have never thought of it this way. I don’t think, who ordered the killings? It is just what I see on that video. When I look at him walking down that bridge, without any “editing” nor frames, I see two things. One, that he is not young. Probably, over 40, or a well-lived 40. And two, this is how an “ordered” killer would look like to me. (He can be whatever by profession. Chances are, I am totally wrong). But I saw it the first time I looked at the video, and I still see it now. Maybe it is his level of “hyperfocusing” that creates such an impression, that it is a job for him. Strictly MOO.

 

[sunshineray]

My hunch was always the same. He can have any profession, but each time I look at that video, I have the same feeling: a hired assassin.

And I wonder, have a kind of hunch, if one of the girl's were recognized by walking on that first part of the bridge right above and very close to an area where people hung out.

I never realized just how close and what an organized area it was to the bridge until that recent HLN show and the bird's eye view of the bridge area done with a camera drone.

If that spot had a lot of people there (Anna Williams said she was told 50+ people in the trails areas that day) it would be easy to see the girls and then leave the gang out and reach the start of the bridge quickly.

Add-on for context...
so I think he, the killer, may have convinced himself to act after seeing someone he recognized and for personal reasons. Like he "hired" himself as an assassin in an instant and with possible more reason that just opportunity showing itself. Just some thoughts, just theorizing.

 

[news buff]

And I wonder, have a kind of hunch, if one of the girl's were recognized by walking on that first part of the bridge right above and very close to an area where people hung out.

I never realized just how close and what an organized area it was to the bridge until that recent HLN show and the bird's eye view of the bridge area done with a camera drone.

If that spot had a lot of people there (Anna Williams said she was told 50+ people in the trails areas that day) it would be easy to see the girls and then leave the gang out and reach the start of the bridge quickly.

Add-on for context...
so I think he, the killer, may have convinced himself to act after seeing someone he recognized and for personal reasons. Like he "hired" himself as an assassin in an instant and with possible more reason that just opportunity showing itself. Just some thoughts, just theorizing.

He hired himself as an assassin? I don't understand.

 

[Ariona]

Sorry if this has already been covered, do we know if either of the girls had their location services active on their snapchat accounts?