Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

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  • #661
Bolded by me....

IMO I don't think we can assume this. We know for sure that Libby's mom regularly communicated with her through SnapChat, so we can assume she would see photos posted to Libby's story:

The morning of February 13, 2017 started just the way most mornings did for Carrie – with a message from her daughter.

“I sent her a ‘Good Morning beautiful have a good day’ Snapchat on my way to work and I got one back and she's lying in bed,” said Carrie. “I asked, what are you doing in bed? (Libby replied) 'I don't have school today.'

"You know, that was our last conversation."

It’s a message she wishes she had kept
.


https://www.wrtv.com/longform/libby-german-the-world-got-short-changed


The only parental figure that I recall saying a bridge crossing would not have been allowed (if asked - which she wasn't) was AW. I don't think it's accurate that Libby's family allowed the trails but forbade the bridge.

I would not have wanted my teenage children on that bridge but it seems that different families had different levels of permissiveness on this point.
Okay, I'l amend it. They took a small risk, hiding something from AW's mom. I still think they took little, normal, risks and it's not a leap for me to think they also took a risk meeting someone they considered safe on a safe outing with the safety of a ride to pick them up.

OR that BG was lurking and knew they would be there.


My opinion.
 
  • #662
following.
 
  • #663
I don't think that the girls were planning on meeting someone out there that they met on line, Abby's mom said that Abby was wearing an old top of hers and the picture of Abby on the bridge shows Abby's hair kind of hastily thrown together on top of her head in my opinion. Teenage girls care what they look like, especially if they plan on meeting a guy. As others have said, and I agree, there was no mention of meeting a guy in their conversation on the bridge.. just a "creepy" guy behind them. I don't believe this was a planned meeting with someone by the girls. I do however, think it is possible that one of them may have been stalked. Just my opinion.
 
  • #664
The one thing that sticks in my mind is that the girls had a sleepover at Libby's house the night before. With teenage girls there is very little actual sleeping at a sleepover, even less sleeping when there is no school or sports the next day. My daughter and her friends would be on their phones texting and social media literally all night, sometimes until 7am. I think the perp got some kind of indication the girls were going to go to the bridge from the night before. I know the families have said the decision to go was spontaneous, but teenagers in general, will frame things in a way that is advantageous to them.

Was thinking along the same line: this could be as simple as the girls may have been talking during the night or early morning with friends and may have mentioned a desire to go to trail / bridge the following day. The plan may have seemed spontaneous to adults in their lives because the girls may not have asked about it until they saw an opportunity to get a drive there when Kelsi was heading out to meet her BF. Up til then, the girls may have not made serious plans to go as they didn't think they'd get a drive there or back. Once the plan became solidified, it would have taken but a moment to post it, or put out a text / group chat to tell others where they could be found if anyone wanted to join them. Could be someone saw it as a pop up text on a device, or saw the bridge pic (was saved as a screen shot by a friend of the girls after it was posted to SnapChat) and just suddenly decided to go there and stalk them and kill them.
 
  • #665
Another possibility, have we considered they were not the original intended target for the killer? Maybe he was there to meet someone else entirely, but for whatever reason, that person didn't present as the perfect victim, so he moved on to the girls? It would be interesting to know if anyone in the area had told ANYONE they'd meet someone at that bridge on that date, around that time and then didn't meet up for some reason, or didn't find who they were supposed to meet with.
 
  • #666
We focus a lot on the town of Delphi but looking at google maps, the outlying areas are dotted with a lot of farms and acreages reaching out in every direction towards surrounding towns and cities.

So my first thought was somewhat of an unfair stereotype. I imagined a recluse who lives in a ramshackle house in the country near Delphi, ridden with junk, raises chickens and a few head of cattle. Not really a farmer but a jack-of-all-trades who makes do without requiring any additional income. Nobody keeps track of his comings and goings, he’s still living in the same house he was born in, he keeps to himself. The sort of introverted person who almost always walks looking downward. He’s familiar with the bridge, memories too as he spent time there on outings with family or friends as a child. Over time his isolation has grown into private perverted inclinations and alcohol gives him courage. People would describe him as “odd” but nobody really knows much about him anymore other than by sight. All JMO
Everyone has some pretty good ideas of what BG is like such as his job, and personality. I have noticed that a lot of these types of people want to be a police officer. Many of them get jobs as security officers. They get a badge and sometimes they carry a gun. They tend to speak with authority, like BG. The security job aids their narcissism so they feel superior. Just another theory. MOO
 
  • #667
As young teens with no drivers licenses they weren’t going anywhere without somebody driving them there. That is one of the big road blocks I have for this being some planned meetup. They could talk and plan and dream all they want, but they weren’t going anywhere without help.
There is nothing in the description of that day that makes me think it was anything other than a spur of the moment thing. The girls, according to BP initially wanted to go shopping. According to LE and the families there is no indication in the girls’ conversation on the bridge that indicates they were expecting anyone or that they recognized the person approaching them on the bridge. Just girl talk they say. Sometimes thing are as they appear.
Just my thoughts.

I mean, it could have been someone was stalking the girls (KG & LG) for whatever reason. Is it possible they were followed to the bridge and no one noticed it? Is it possible someone watched the house, the girls and their movements for awhile before they carried out this attack? <modsnip: Sleuthing family members is not allowed>
 
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  • #668
I don't think that the girls were planning on meeting someone out there that they met on line, Abby's mom said that Abby was wearing an old top of hers and the picture of Abby on the bridge shows Abby's hair kind of hastily thrown together on top of her head in my opinion. Teenage girls care what they look like, especially if they plan on meeting a guy. As others have said, and I agree, there was no mention of meeting a guy in their conversation on the bridge.. just a "creepy" guy behind them. I don't believe this was a planned meeting with someone by the girls. I do however, think it is possible that one of them may have been stalked. Just my opinion.
That's a very good point about primping, but also not sure they were the primping type of girls.

The reason I really lean toward a planned meeting is that they encountered BG on the bridge - that seems like a great place to tell victims to meet him because it puts them in such a vulnerable and specific place.

Also, it seems like they knew right away he was creepy and meant trouble. Why? He's not creepy looking on his own - just a nondescript man who looks like so many other men in the area. It's not creepy simply to be walking on a bridge.

I think they knew he was creepy because they were expecting to meet someone up there, and realized when he was coming toward them that they had been tricked. So, they started taking photos and recording him.

That's just a theory I came up with a long while ago and I haven't shaken it since it fits well, imo, though I could be persuaded to change my mind.

jmo
 
  • #669
That's a very good point about primping, but also not sure they were the primping type of girls.

The reason I really lean toward a planned meeting is that they encountered BG on the bridge - that seems like a great place to tell victims to meet him because it puts them in such a vulnerable and specific place.

Also, it seems like they knew right away he was creepy and meant trouble. Why? He's not creepy looking on his own - just a nondescript man who looks like so many other men in the area. It's not creepy simply to be walking on a bridge.

I think they knew he was creepy because they were expecting to meet someone up there, and realized when he was coming toward them that they had been tricked. So, they started taking photos and recording him.

That's just a theory I came up with a long while ago and I haven't shaken it since it fits well, imo, though I could be persuaded to change my mind.

jmo
IMO, the mention of a guy behind them, or whatever exactly was said, maybe indicates a possible earlier encounter on the trail, or before they reached the end of the bridge. JMO
 
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  • #670
Everyone has some pretty good ideas of what BG is like such as his job, and personality. I have noticed that a lot of these types of people want to be a police officer. Many of them get jobs as security officers. They get a badge and sometimes they carry a gun. They tend to speak with authority, like BG. The security job aids their narcissism so they feel superior. Just another theory. MOO
The Preferred Jobs of Serial Killers and Psychopaths - Neuroscience News
 
  • #671
The reason I asked earlier if location services were on, was because Snapchat allows you to see others using Snapchat on a map. A person can load the app and see if there is anyone in the area (assuming she allowed public location service which a lot of young peoples do). This would have allowed him to see there was one girl out there, view her profile and see where she was at on the walk before evening getting to the girls plus see the pic she took.
 
  • #672
The reason I asked earlier if location services were on, was because Snapchat allows you to see others using Snapchat on a map. A person can load the app and see if there is anyone in the area (assuming she allowed public location service which a lot of young peoples do). This would have allowed him to see there was one girl out there, view her profile and see where she was at on the walk before evening getting to the girls plus see the pic she took.
BBM FR
Snapchat launched “Snap Maps” on June 21st 2017. So that statement that you said above, bolded by me, doesn’t apply to Abby & Libby’s case.
Snapchat launches location-sharing feature Snap Map – TechCrunch

Good thought though.

mOO
 
  • #673
BBM FR
Snapchat launched “Snap Maps” on June 21st 2017. So that statement that you said above, bolded by me, doesn’t apply to Abby & Libby’s case.
Snapchat launches location-sharing feature Snap Map – TechCrunch

Good thought though.

mOO
Snapchat had the "Add Nearby" feature before that. That feature was added in 2015.

So, it would have been possible for Libby to have used "Add Nearby" to locate and accept as friends others who were in the same vicinity. If she did that and then posted the bridge photo, those added in that way would know where to find her.

Snapchat now lets you tap to view snaps and stories, add nearby friends
 
  • #674
Snapchat had the "Add Nearby" feature before that. That feature was added in 2015.

So, it would have been possible for Libby to have used "Add Nearby" to locate and accept as friends others who were in the same vicinity. If she did that and then posted the bridge photo, those added in that way would know where to find her.

Snapchat now lets you tap to view snaps and stories, add nearby friends

interesting, I loathe Snapchat so have no idea how it has changed over the years.
 
  • #675
That's a very good point about primping, but also not sure they were the primping type of girls.

The reason I really lean toward a planned meeting is that they encountered BG on the bridge - that seems like a great place to tell victims to meet him because it puts them in such a vulnerable and specific place.

Also, it seems like they knew right away he was creepy and meant trouble. Why? He's not creepy looking on his own - just a nondescript man who looks like so many other men in the area. It's not creepy simply to be walking on a bridge.

I think they knew he was creepy because they were expecting to meet someone up there, and realized when he was coming toward them that they had been tricked. So, they started taking photos and recording him.

That's just a theory I came up with a long while ago and I haven't shaken it since it fits well, imo, though I could be persuaded to change my mind.

jmo
 
  • #676
"Down the hill" sounds to me like a grisseled vet and/or Clint Eastwood.
IMO does not sound like a 18-30 year old.
If BG was a younger predator, one would think he would automatically assume both girls had phones and would consciously try to dispose of any tech gear that could hold evidence. Maybe he did and it got lost in the madness.

That being said, I still think he is 30+ with the statement from LEO that he 'may appear younger than actual age'.
 
  • #677
Hmmm, interesting. But they would have found him creepy had he been futher along the bridge, then turned and walked past them then turn and walk towards them again. That would be creepy! If they'd been planning on meeting someone there, don't you think that person would have shown up, or at least let the cops know they were supposed to meet up but didn't? Just playing devils advocate here :) Unless, the murderer catfished them, posing as a male friend or interest. Something definitely made them uneasy to a point they found him "creepy".
The thing that baffles me, is if BG was planning on just killing them, why didn't he just push one of them over the bridge? Why stalk them the length of the bridge, then down the hill, through the creek and to their final locations where he brutally killed them. It would have been much easier for him to control 1 of the girls, than both I pray every day this guy is caught.
<modsnip>
 
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  • #678
Was thinking along the same line: this could be as simple as the girls may have been talking during the night or early morning with friends and may have mentioned a desire to go to trail / bridge the following day. The plan may have seemed spontaneous to adults in their lives because the girls may not have asked about it until they saw an opportunity to get a drive there when Kelsi was heading out to meet her BF. Up til then, the girls may have not made serious plans to go as they didn't think they'd get a drive there or back. Once the plan became solidified, it would have taken but a moment to post it, or put out a text / group chat to tell others where they could be found if anyone wanted to join them. Could be someone saw it as a pop up text on a device, or saw the bridge pic (was saved as a screen shot by a friend of the girls after it was posted to SnapChat) and just suddenly decided to go there and stalk them and kill them.
 
  • #679
But wait a minute, wouldn't there be proof of a planned meeting/chat/convo re on Libby's phone that forensics would have found?
 
  • #680
I have noticed that a lot of these types of people want to be a police officer. Many of them get jobs as security officers. MOO

Yes, same thought and I also question if he parked at CPS building for several hours if it was because he knew there were no cameras or security patrols? One possible reason for having that info is because he was or is that security. Only one possibility of course, theorizing....
]
 
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