Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

[JnRyan]

But wait a minute, wouldn't there be proof of a planned meeting/chat/convo re on Libby's phone that forensics would have found?

Had it occurred through Libby's phone, yes. And apparently LE has been through that phone and any family computers. (Does their school have a computer lab or classrooms where they may not necessarily be assigned a specific computer? Just thinking out loud as I don't know the answer.)

Of course, a forensic analysis of phones and computers will not detect the old fashioned method of communication. Personal face-to-face conversation. Had there been a conversation the week before in the hallway at school about what to do on the day off and word of mouth got to one person and then another is certainly a possibility. Yes, family members said it was a spur of the moment thing, but family doesn't always know everything.

With today's society - not just teenagers like Abigail and Liberty - odds are it is in social media or a text. And it sounds like LE has gone through all of it.

 

[Jerry_Rikshaw]

Can you point me to that statement? I missed it.

Carroll County Comet where Sheriff Leazenby recently answered questions. County Safety section.

 

[EndlessEnigma]

If BG is a psychosexual killer I don’t think he has told anyone what he has done. These types of killers lead double lives and fool even those they live with for years. If anyone is going to call him out it would be for his behavior around that time and since then. I think he lives in a fantasy world he doesn’t share with others because he knows his behavior and thoughts are wrong and society would look at him as a monster. JMO

I agree. I think BG was either lurking somewhere online reading what they posted or was actually in communication. (Yes, I know people don't believe their was prior contact online. Lurking might have been enough.)

These were good girls, but also having fun taking small risks, unknown to their families. One didn't have a cellphone, but they used one together. They were not supposed to go on the bridge, but they did. It's not a huge leap for me to think they thought they were safe with online postings but in fact BG was either lurking or luring them.

I think BG was local enough that he could also spontaneously be at the bridge with little advance notice.

Speculation, of course.

jmo

I can’t help but think he lived VERY close to the area. JMO

 

[EndlessEnigma]

@Blanche The discussion of him possibly being a searcher and why that would matter is not new. It's been brought up repeatedly, usually coming up every couple of days on the thread.

The usual theory given is this: the killer returned and assisted in the search, therefore though LE have since figured out who he is they cannot arrest him because his searcher status explains the presence of any DNA they found.

If that's not an idea that occurred to you, that's fine, as it's likely an erroneous theory anyway, for all the reasons I listed in my post. It does seem somehow connected to what you were saying, though, since you mention that you think DNA should be taken from the people who were searchers on RL's private land.

Here on the threads, it's common to post an idea and then have others quote your post to comment about something related. I could have easily used your post to bring up statistics on how often killers return to the crime scene, or the psychology of a person who inserts himself into the investigation. Instead I chose to comment on how the killer hypothetically being present in the search would affect DNA collection and interpretation. To be clear: IMO, it doesn't affect it all that much unless he was in the group of searchers who actually found the bodies. And even then, discrepancies between his statement to police (Sgt Riley says statements were taken from all the civilians who were near the victims) and what was found forensically would likely indicate his deception IMO.

And finally, @Blanche, if a DNA sweep of all male Delphi residents is LE's only chance to solve the crime, then the case is really in trouble. Because a tactic like that, which can be easily challenged in court and ruled inadmissible on constitutional grounds (yes, even if you ASK not COMPEL), is truly an investigation's last resort. MOO

They did a DNA sweep for a case in Truro, MA. Every male was ordered to take a test. The same thing happened in a case near Springfield, MA. Both times the perp was caught, prosecuted, and given life in prison.

 

[Mac1233]

I agree with part of your post re him being there spontaneously, <modsnip> his calmness and psychological thinking (sure didn't seem in a hurry, and who knows what else, he went there with plans to kill, whether the girls or whomever he came across I don't know. Hi had to have preplanned this, maybe even acted it out (practiced) before actually doing it. He sounds so authoritive when he says "girls, down the hill" and had to be confident no one would hear any screams if there were some, and confident he wouldn't be seen during his whole ordeal either jmho In The Details.

 

[Wolverbear]

They did a DNA sweep for a case in Truro, MA. Every male was ordered to take a test. The same thing happened in a case near Springfield, MA. Both times the perp was caught, prosecuted, and given life in prison.

No males were “ordered” to submit dna in Truro. It was voluntary.

 

[MistyWaters]

They did a DNA sweep for a case in Truro, MA. Every male was ordered to take a test. The same thing happened in a case near Springfield, MA. Both times the perp was caught, prosecuted, and given life in prison.

In this case LE have never stated its conclusively known they have the killers DNA. No point in DNA sweep without anything to match it with.

 

[Yemelyan]

They did a DNA sweep for a case in Truro, MA. Every male was ordered to take a test. The same thing happened in a case near Springfield, MA. Both times the perp was caught, prosecuted, and given life in prison.

I live in MA so I'm well aware. In the Truro case, which took place in the early 2000s, it was not an order, it was voluntary, and there were ultimately numerous legal challenges (not just involving the person ultimately convicted, but by people who voluntarily submitted samples - and who were not suspects - that were not utilized by LE in the way they had been assured they would be.) Twenty years on, I'm not sure investigators in the current year and current situation would want the legal risk of these dragnets because between the time of the Truro case to the present day, there have been many more legal challenges upheld as to the constitutionality of this practice. While it may technically be legal, the prosecutor in the Delphi case (as well as members of the investigation team) have spoken numerous times about their one shot at the case and preserving the integrity of their evidence - which, I'm assuming, includes the collection methods being above legal question as well. JMO

 

[UnderWhelmed405]

GH did 3hrs on Delphi yesterday & only thing I got out of it is his poor attempt at humor/sound effects and some passive aggressiveness towards any other "sleuthers" that have a different opinion.

Only thing that stood out which is obviously his opinion is that BG parked at RL's property with permission. Hmmm

 

[Boxer]

It was in the two-part Q&A in the Comet, which is linked a few pages back in the thread.

One thing is there is no way for them to rely know if thwre was app.contact or not.
[Q

In this case LE have never stated its conclusively known they have the killers DNA. No point in DNA sweep without anything to match it with.

In this case LE have never stated its conclusively known they have the killers DNA. No point in DNA sweep without anything to match it with.

It would be helpful to ID all the DNA. But maybe they already have.

 

[Wolverbear]

GH did 3hrs on Delphi yesterday & only thing I got out of it is his poor attempt at humor/sound effects and some passive aggressiveness towards any other "sleuthers" that have a different opinion.

Only thing that stood out which is obviously his opinion is that BG parked at RL's property with permission. Hmmm

I just have a hard time believing this. Did he speak about this in response to a caller or just as he rambled on? I've heard him talk about a witness that places BG near the cemetery along 300 (in at least one of his videos). If that's true, then why would BG venture away from the tree line if he is parked (with permission) at RL's property? It just doesn't make sense IMO.

 

[Spartygirl]

On a side note..re the NBG sketch/ sketch artist:

I ran into this video again today, published about a year ago and then updated app. 4 months later. The sketch artist, Trooper Taylor Bryant with Indiana State Police, talks about how he developed this sketch and others. Quite interesting.

Meet the sketch artist who helps ISP catch bad guys | whas11.com

-Nin

DBM-- cant find my link for back up
edit--found it but on old laptop and not charged UGH

 

[janewall]

GH did 3hrs on Delphi yesterday & only thing I got out of it is his poor attempt at humor/sound effects and some passive aggressiveness towards any other "sleuthers" that have a different opinion.

Only thing that stood out which is obviously his opinion is that BG parked at RL's property with permission. Hmmm

Thank you for that concise distillation of 3 hours! I appreciate your taking the time to watch/listen.

 

[Boxer]

GH did 3hrs on Delphi yesterday & only thing I got out of it is his poor attempt at humor/sound effects and some passive aggressiveness towards any other "sleuthers" that have a different opinion.

Only thing that stood out which is obviously his opinion is that BG parked at RL's property with permission. Hmmm

Well RL is a typical older fun sone dude with a place. He had a reverse mortgage so secure, drank too much, lost his license, has friends. If he let someone park there that seems like it was a huge lead.

Personally MOO the killer had a motorcycle, drove in from the east, parked in the cemetary, walked down the creek, looked around, noting how deserted it was then took the trail from the back of the cemetary to the north side of the bridge. Walked across corraling the girls, looped back towards his bike with them across the creek.

 

[PaulaDC]

I recall a very common ploy that I’m certain is still in practise today. Girls A & B want to go somewhere, not sure if their parents will let them. So A tells her parent that B’s parents agreed even though they hadn’t quite yet. B also tells her parent that A’s parents agreed even though they hadn’t quite yet. But because each of the parents believe the other okayed it, the girls are soon on their way.

I sure wouldn’t blame the girls either, nothing planned by them could’ve intentionally put their safety at risk. Hiking a public walking trail on a Monday afternoon is not known to be a high risk activity. JMO

Also if I can add, spending the night at a friend's so you can do something you may not get approval for from your parents. Been there done that. Plus a meet up doesn't have to be arranged so closely to the meet. Could have been BG had said "I'll be there on such and such day if you can make it, if you do I'll see you then" with no plan made in stone. moo

 

[MistyWaters]

Also if I can add, spending the night at a friend's so you can do something you may not get approval for from your parents. Been there done that. Plus a meet up doesn't have to be arranged so closely to the meet. Could have been BG had said "I'll be there on such and such day if you can make it, if you do I'll see you then" with no plan made in stone. moo

From everything that’s been said so far, it doesn’t appear LE believe a meetup was arranged. But I do wonder if it’s possible the killer did learn there were plans for teen girls to be out and about that February afternoon on the trail at the bridge and it just so happened Libby and Abby were alone at that particular time.

Purely speculation because we don’t know how frequently teen girls or other females ordinarily crossed the bridge that time of year with nobody else in sight. If he was lurking, waiting for an opportunity he must’ve had a reason to believe the opportunity would arise. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

He hired himself as an assassin? I don't understand.

Sorry, a play on words...if killer was aware of who the girls were and there was bad history with someone connected either of them...upon seeing them, in that moment, he could have decided to settle his grudge or could have done it for someone else he was associated with. Just theorizing.

 

[sunshineray]

It was actually ISP press officer Sgt. Riley who said this:

Riley also gave advice for people who are concerned about the crime.

"Be cautious and be careful and be parents," he said. "Just make sure they know where their children are at, what their children are doing and -- if nothing else -- know what's going on in their lives."

https://www.wrtv.com/news/crime/del...iley-amber-alert-would-not-have-done-any-good

I remember reading that and thinking but they did know where their children were and what they were doing, according to BP, MP and KG.

To me that only left the "what's going on in their lives" which led me to consider the girls may have been catfished.

 

[sunshineray]

In this case LE have never stated its conclusively known they have the killers DNA. No point in DNA sweep without anything to match it with.

I think DNA is not going to play a big part of any future prosecution of the Delphi killer(s). Shoe prints or fingerprints...maybe. I think lack of unquestionable or defining DNA is where LE finds themselves. I hope I'm very wrong.

 

[sunshineray]

GH did 3hrs on Delphi yesterday & only thing I got out of it is his poor attempt at humor/sound effects and some passive aggressiveness towards any other "sleuthers" that have a different opinion.

Only thing that stood out which is obviously his opinion is that BG parked at RL's property with permission. Hmmm

Wait, GH actually said he thought (or knew?) that the killer parked on RL's property with permission? That would mean RL knows who the killer is, no?...according to GH?