Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

[Yemelyan]

Do you know if those characteristics are also true of younger offenders? They wouldn't have as much flexibility to leave town or even miss school, for instance.

I'm not sure if really young offenders have been studied that much. The, sort of, definitive study of child abduction murders, the Keppel & Brown study, contained between 750-850 individual murder cases and there were offenders as young as 16 in that study but I think there was only one. Just going by memory though. Not saying they are as rare as that in reality, just what was studied.

We once had a verified member of LE posting on these threads who had some very valuable info to share on these types of offenders. This poster said that it is common for this type of offender to be a sort of "social marginal," with a history of changing residences frequently because family often shifted them around. Like, there is suspicion of child molesting in one town so he goes to live with grandparents for awhile.

 

[Gypsy86]

I JUST DONT FEEL IT WAS A LOCAL. GOOGLE EARTH CAN SHOW YOU LAYOUTS OF A AREA. HE KILLED THEM, LEFT AND HASNT LOOKED BACK. HE IS CONFIDENT WITH WHAT HE DID. AND IM SURE IF HE CHECKS UP ON THE CASE IT IS ON THE INTERNETS LATEST NEWS.

 

[TL4S]

* i belive the video tape was taken accidentally not on purpose. If one feel threatened its usually 911 call or sms to friends /family that would be a first line if scared of someone.
I believe video was taken and murder happened to walk on thats why the picture is so pixeled because it's from far far away.

Snipped for focus.

I thought this was possible, as well, until LE said L had the presence of mind to take the phone out and video him. And the family said the girls were talking about him on the video, too.

Also, another article had one of their friends talking about how L often took pics of people to be funny and show her later, iirc. And there's also been reference to no phone reception around the bridge, so calling 911 might not have been an option.

Does anyone have links to these references?

 

[Fika]

Welcome Fika!
Great post! I pretty much agree with all of it especially the part about the trails not being as unknown as people seem to think. That myth was shattered in the HLN special back in February when the head of the Delphi Chamber of Commerce talked about consistently handing out brochures about the trails to people once the trails opened. To me, that blows up the thought that the killer has to be local simply because he “knew the trails”.

Thanks for reply. I'm still trying to figure out how to use this forum. That's what i thought when i read about it while back. Trails are out there on internet eaasy to find by anyone even outside of United States. It really could have been anyone not necessarily from Delphi.

 

[TL4S]

Welcome Fika!
Great post! I pretty much agree with all of it especially the part about the trails not being as unknown as people seem to think. That myth was shattered in the HLN special back in February when the head of the Delphi Chamber of Commerce talked about consistently handing out brochures about the trails to people once the trails opened. To me, that blows up the thought that the killer has to be local simply because he “knew the trails”.

Having, myself, moved around and explored new spots for mountain biking and hiking, I definitely agree being a local is not the only way to find a backwoods trail. However, I do think he had a reason to be in the area during that time (lived there, visiting family, work-related, relationship, etc). I can't see someone in, say, Chicago, getting up one day and deciding he's going to go to the Monan High Bridge on a crapshoot, looking for a victim. JMO

LE has stated they think the killer is local because he moved around quickly that day. I wonder what they have to tell them that?

 

[Justice101]

still following.. hoping for a day of reckoning!

 

[Fika]

Having, myself, moved around and explored new spots for mountain biking and hiking, I definitely agree being a local is not the only way to find a backwoods trail. However, I do think he had a reason to be in the area during that time (lived there, visiting family, work-related, relationship, etc). I can't see someone in, say, Chicago, getting up one day and deciding he's going to go to the Monan High Bridge on a crapshoot, looking for a victim. JMO

LE has stated they think the killer is local because he moved around quickly that day. I wonder what they have to tell them that?

That would probably unlikely that one would decide to go there randomly one day since it's a small town. Ties to the town doesn't necessarily need to be recent and he doesn't need to have a family there or live there or even close by. For example he could have been there as a child or in his teens and just got back there . I just have a really hard time believing nobody would recognize him in such a small town. Also some things seems random as well it could be highly unlikely that he drove there by coincidence picked up random victims and left highly unlikely yes impossible no. I guess what I'm trying to say that 4 years in.. I don't believe he can be local. Its all my opinion so i can be rew really wrong.

 

[TL4S]

That would probably unlikely that one would decide to go there randomly one day since it's a small town. Ties to the town doesn't necessarily need to be recent and he doesn't need to have a family there or live there or even close by. For example he could have been there as a child or in his teens and just got back there . I just have a really hard time believing nobody would recognize him in such a small town. Also some things seems random as well it could be highly unlikely that he drove there by coincidence picked up random victims and left highly unlikely yes impossible no. I guess what I'm trying to say that 4 years in.. I don't believe he can be local. Its all my opinion so i can be rew really wrong.

No, we're all just guessing. I have a feeling he's local, but from a neighboring town or rural area. For the same reason you say, about nobody recognizing him in four years, I don't think he held a job that put him front and center (teacher, coach, clergy, LE, etc.), but who knows. And I don't know what to think as to whether or not he's still in the area...

 

[Fika]

No, we're all just guessing. I have a feeling he's local, but from a neighboring town or rural area. For the same reason you say, about nobody recognizing him in four years, I don't think he held a job that put him front and center (teacher, coach, clergy, LE, etc.), but who knows. And I don't know what to think as to whether or not he's still in the area...

With so little information there is not much we can do but guess. Reason I feel he isn't local is that cases gets a lot of publication locally and people would be on a lock out for a suspect and in small towns /rural areas its easy to spot a person. People know one another. Even though case was publicized nationwide its harder to know people in bigger cities . Its more anonymous and there are people who never heard about the case in other states . With two sketches out there someone would have to recognize him. He had to leave the house at least sometime. But of course I'm just going on my gut feeling.

 

[Ozoner]

With so little information there is not much we can do but guess. Reason I feel he isn't local is that cases gets a lot of publication locally and people would be on a lock out for a suspect and in small towns /rural areas its easy to spot a person. People know one another. Even though case was publicized nationwide its harder to know people in bigger cities . Its more anonymous and there are people who never heard about the case in other states . With two sketches out there someone would have to recognize him. He had to leave the house at least sometime. But of course I'm just going on my gut feeling.

Good point. The witness who saw him didn't recognize him. (I don't know whether that witness was local or not, but it's likely that she was.)

 

[MistyWaters]

No, we're all just guessing. I have a feeling he's local, but from a neighboring town or rural area. For the same reason you say, about nobody recognizing him in four years, I don't think he held a job that put him front and center (teacher, coach, clergy, LE, etc.), but who knows. And I don't know what to think as to whether or not he's still in the area...

Just my thoughts, of the 50,000 tips I’d imagine 100s or even 1000s of men have been tipped on due to a resemblance to the sketch and/or photo/video, each time the tipster believing they recognize the suspect. But LE seems to be looking beyond physical recognition -

Sheriff Leazenby continues to answer double homicide questions | Carroll County Comet
Q. What elements of this case make it so difficult to solve?

A. Several, however the presiding factor seems to be that whomever is responsible has never discussed it with anyone.

 

[photographer4]

Snipped for focus.

I thought this was possible, as well, until LE said L had the presence of mind to take the phone out and video him. And the family said the girls were talking about him on the video, too.

Also, another article had one of their friends talking about how L often took pics of people to be funny and show her later, iirc. And there's also been reference to no phone reception around the bridge, so calling 911 might not have been an option.

Does anyone have links to these references?

I do not have the links, but can confirm you're correct in what you wrote. Have seen the same in various approved media.

 

[Fika]

Good point. The witness who saw him didn't recognize him. (I don't know whether that witness was local or not, but it's likely that she was.)

Exactly, two sketches and none is recognized that's what I find a bit odd. But so many thins about this case is odd. The second sketch is relatively young man. He had to go to school somewhere.

 

[TL4S]

Can anyone explain to me why the land along Deer Creek near the murders is not labeled as belonging to anyone anymore on Beacon? It's been this way for awhile, but was it always? It's not that way anywhere else along the creek.
Beacon - Carroll County, IN - Map

ETA: I guess in town it's the same way, only on the creek itself. Who would own the waterways and riparian lands up to private properties?

 

[TL4S]

Exactly, two sketches and none is recognized that's what I find a bit odd. But so many thins about this case is odd. The second sketch is relatively young man. He had to go to school somewhere.

I think it's possible (just another guess), that the witnesses who provided the sketches didn't know or recognize him. But maybe the sketches don't look that much like him, in reality, so the people who know him don't think about him when they see the sketches?

 

[Yemelyan]

Exactly, two sketches and none is recognized that's what I find a bit odd. But so many thins about this case is odd. The second sketch is relatively young man. He had to go to school somewhere.

I don't find it that odd that no one has (apparently) yet recognized either of the sketches. The "old" BG sketch is abnormally detailed for a police sketch. So detailed, in fact, you feel like you are looking at a photograph. But you have to remember that it's not a photograph. In reality, it's improbable that a witness recalled that much detail. LE have said that this composite is a merger of at least two witnesses' memories plus other investigative information (possibly the video). In my opinion, it's actually TOO detailed because people look at it and are able to dismiss someone that they know if it's not an exact match. Yet sketches are not and never should be taken as an exact match.

The new primary sketch of the "young" BG is also just a memory - not a photograph. Depending on the recall of the single witness who created this one, it may be a very accurate or a not very accurate representation - we just don't know.

My feeling is that when he is caught he may not really look very much like either sketch but at the same time may share just a feature or two with both of them.

 

[Yemelyan]

Snipped for focus.

I thought this was possible, as well, until LE said L had the presence of mind to take the phone out and video him. And the family said the girls were talking about him on the video, too.

Also, another article had one of their friends talking about how L often took pics of people to be funny and show her later, iirc. And there's also been reference to no phone reception around the bridge, so calling 911 might not have been an option.

Does anyone have links to these references?

ISP press officer Tony Slocom is the origin of the "presence of mind" quote:

"That young lady is a hero, that is no doubt,” said ISP Sgt. Tony Slocom. “To have enough presence of mind to activate the video system on her cell phone to record what we believe is criminal behavior is about to occur, there is no doubt in our mind that she is a hero.”

https://www.wrtv.com/news/indiana-s...-a-hero-for-capturing-audio-photos-of-suspect

 

[minazoe]

well since I am of the opinion he also did the Evansdale crimes..I would guess he could be from anywhere in the USA but particularly the mid-west.

how far is the next county over from Delphi? I would be looking there.

also how far would he need to drive to pull in the driveway at the dinner hour? about 2.5 hours drive, right?

what are the nearest campuses?

mOO

 

[Fika]

I think it's possible (just another guess), that the witnesses who provided the sketches didn't know or recognize him. But maybe the sketches don't look that much like him, in reality, so the people who know him don't think about him when they see the sketches?

That could be possible people don't often have a great memory of another person when asked after sometime. He might not look like his sketch much, also one can change appearance easily by haircut, glasses. But yet human mind can recognize crete pattern for example I can tell when my mum walks the stairs and I hear it in the apartment I know it's her. Even I can't see it. When we se the video is repeated short scene hard to recognize but if someone knows him closely one look at that video+voice will definitely give someone an idea who that can be.

 

[Fika]

ISP press officer Tony Slocom is the origin of the "presence of mind" quote:

"That young lady is a hero, that is no doubt,” said ISP Sgt. Tony Slocom. “To have enough presence of mind to activate the video system on her cell phone to record what we believe is criminal behavior is about to occur, there is no doubt in our mind that she is a hero.”

https://www.wrtv.com/news/indiana-s...-a-hero-for-capturing-audio-photos-of-suspect

Not to say she wasn't a hero because i don't doubt she was an extremely intelligent young woman. I just assumed he walked in the video for one reason. If he was walking towards them on the bridge I don't really understand how would they expect /suspect he would harm them in any way. Enough to start a video before he reaches them. One might say it's a gut feeling but on the video because of how pixeled his image was, he was relatively far away from them. If a man walks towards you on a trail far away is it enough to set red herring to start feeling threatened?