Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

[sunshineray]

Even if the girls were more than 1/2 way across on their way back to the trail when he suddenly began to walk toward them on the bridge, if he was veering from side to side with unsteady movement I think most people would turn around to avoid crossing paths in a situation like that, on the high bridge with no railings. If that’s what happened it’s possible the girls had no intention of walking all the way across to the end of the bridge but his unpredictable forward movement gave them no choice.

JMO

I never even thought about that possibly being the case. A very real possibility.

 

[MistyWaters]

I never even thought about that possibly being the case. A very real possibility.

Even though the killer hasn’t been arrested and convicted yet, I think Libby’s video/audio is extremely helpful to LE because it reveals for them the sequence of events that occurred that fateful afternoon. By knowing what occurred gives LE the advantage when they find the person responsible.

Imagine the wild theories otherwise if there were no video/audio at all.....they were with boys or partying amongst a group, things got out of control; they were attacked by a ghoulish mourner at the cemetery, bodies rolled down the hill; they were trespassing on private land so the landowner violently confronted them. LE would not have a starting point, anything could’ve been possible.

JMO

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Ya know, its really interesting that they used the term "presence of mind" and described Libby as a hero! It might be confirming to the killer directly that he wasn't as stealthy as he thought as they noticed him. It is also interesting they refer to the killer as a coward who went after two young girls, but they call Libby a hero. I wonder if that makes the killer feel even more angry - that a young girl is seen as smart and brave while he is pointed out as cowardly and hiding in plain sight.

I think that's exactly what they did, promote and exaggerate Libby's role in a pathetic attempt to unnerve Bridge Guy. Naturally law enforcement is going to do everything possible to deservedly paint the victims in the most favorable light possible. If we saw the full version I think it would be obvious as a video of Abby finishing her crossing of the bridge, but extended long enough to catch Bridge Guy entering a very small section of the screen in the final couple of seconds.

In terms of where he was from, I've always wondered what threshold was required in terms of a non-local deemed okay to know about that area. <modsnip>

 

[sunshineray]

I think that's exactly what they did, promote and exaggerate Libby's role in a pathetic attempt to unnerve Bridge Guy. Naturally law enforcement is going to do everything possible to deservedly paint the victims in the most favorable light possible. If we saw the full version I think it would be obvious as a video of Abby finishing her crossing of the bridge, but extended long enough to catch Bridge Guy entering a very small section of the screen in the final couple of seconds.

In terms of where he was from, I've always wondered what threshold was required in terms of a non-local deemed okay to know about that area. <modsnip>

The video of Abby finishing her bridge crossing may have been just fortuitous in catching the killer on video but Libby either purposely kept that video going until he reached them or turn on audio capture via whatever app on, probably surreptitiously, to get his voice recorded...very laudable for a 14 year old being approached by an unknown adult male in an isolated area, IMO.

 

[Thelastleg]

Would you need to be able to receive a signal in order for the police to be able to get a "ping" in the area from the device around 2:30am?

I googled this and went down a rabbit hole of technical information. Much of it over my head. It seems if you have any reception even a weak one GPS will still be able to send a signal. There may be a time lag but can still be used to triangulate a position.

 

[TL4S]

I'm having troubles wording this, because I know it's obvious, but the killer did exist before February 13, 2017. He had to come from somewhere. So why was he there?

I agree that anyone, from anywhere, can search online and find a trail. It's not impossible that the killer decided he wanted to kill someone in a random, remote place, so drove to Delphi, IN with that express purpose, hoping for an opportunity. It's also not impossible that the killer decided to search for and travel to an old railway bridge, where he happened to get triggered and murder two local girls during his visit. These are both possible, but imo, unlikely.

So where did he come from and why was he there? I'm not 100% convinced he had to live in the community, or have been on the trail and bridge before, to carry out his crimes. But I do firmly believe he had another reason to be in the Delphi vacinity during that time, other than murder. I think he's familiar with the general area in some capacity, for whatever reason, besides just exploring it on a map. He lived a life before the murders, so he had to be doing something, and that something led him there. JMO

It makes sense to me that LE assumes he's either local, or has some family or business link to the area, because it seems too improbable for him to be there otherwise. This is just how I see it.

 

[Fika]

When I enlarge and watch the video loop of the killer on the bridge, I think he's either singing outloud or talking to himself. It's possible his out of the norm behavior (maybe seen by the girls before they crossed the bridge) tus what alerted Libby to take her video. ISP link to that video is below

ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation

That would probably made the most sense to me as to why filming him if his behavior was instead of threatening to rather strange or talking to himself loudly.
I of course understand that the girls couldn't have known the danger they would be in. But for some reason I find that recording someone when you feel something feels off about them is a strange course of action. But yet im not a teen and I'm from different continent so maybe that is why I find it strange.

 

[Fika]

I'm having troubles wording this, because I know it's obvious, but the killer did exist before February 13, 2017. He had to come from somewhere. So why was he there?

I agree that anyone, from anywhere, can search online and find a trail. It's not impossible that the killer decided he wanted to kill someone in a random, remote place, so drove to Delphi, IN with that express purpose, hoping for an opportunity. It's also not impossible that the killer decided to search for and travel to an old railway bridge, where he happened to get triggered and murder two local girls during his visit. These are both possible, but imo, unlikely.

So where did he come from and why was he there? I'm not 100% convinced he had to live in the community, or have been on the trail and bridge before, to carry out his crimes. But I do firmly believe he had another reason to be in the Delphi vacinity during that time, other than murder. I think he's familiar with the general area in some capacity, for whatever reason, besides just exploring it on a map. He lived a life before the murders, so he had to be doing something, and that something led him there. JMO

It makes sense to me that LE assumes he's either local, or has some family or business link to the area, because it seems too improbable for him to be there otherwise. This is just how I see it.

As I believe he is not from the area. My opinion only. There could be so many reasons someone goes anywhere.
Think about ourselves why do we go some places? Reasons are infinitive. Taking aside why he went there to kill its impossible to know but why he could be there could be because he has some sort of ties to the town by a friend or a friend of a friend. He might have worked close by in his life. Visited as a child for one reason or another. He could be interested in old bridges or have his killing fantasy including the bridge and he found one.
It could also be as simple as someone sometime ago mentioned it to him because they were there themselves. Or seen the bridge in the news, online news for some reason.
If he would live in states close by( sorry I really don't know map of United States well so not sure which states) he would probably hear about the bridge? Not sure of how famous it was outside if one specifically search for Delphi. Was it ever on news? Newspapers?

 

[Laura456]

That would probably made the most sense to me as to why filming him if his behavior was instead of threatening to rather strange or talking to himself loudly.
I of course understand that the girls couldn't have known the danger they would be in. But for some reason I find that recording someone when you feel something feels off about them is a strange course of action. But yet im not a teen and I'm from different continent so maybe that is why I find it strange.

I would pretend to be on the phone if I felt threatened on a trail. Maybe she was making it look like a video call?

 

[Fika]

I would pretend to be on the phone if I felt threatened on a trail. Maybe she was making it look like a video call?

Yes exactly. I thought about that one too. As a woman I did it when felt uncomfortable and said something like "ok see you in two min" or "I'm almost there can you come and get me?"
Really loudly. She might have turn on video to pretend she is calling someone and film him ( flip phone around) it gives one extra security like hey im talking to somone and they seen you .
Do you think he was aware of the video? It was really such a brazen act to commit in mid day anyone could have shown up from any direction with dogs, joggers. He couldn't have known their father is not someone around a bit behind.
Wanted to add that as european I personally use term " guys" to group of people. I just realized that when writing here because I was about to use this phase before. I'm a young woman without any kind of job in authority or work with kids. I mentioned it because I've seen a talk previously about using term guys.

 

[Laura456]

Yes exactly. I thought about that one too. As a woman I did it when felt uncomfortable and said something like "ok see you in two min" or "I'm almost there can you come and get me?"
Really loudly. She might have turn on video to pretend she is calling someone and film him ( flip phone around) it gives one extra security like hey im talking to somone and they seen you .
Do you think he was aware of the video? It was really such a brazen act to commit in mid day anyone could have shown up from any direction with dogs, joggers. He couldn't have known their father is not someone around a bit behind.
Wanted to add that as european I personally use term " guys" to group of people. I just realized that when writing here because I was about to use this phase before. I'm a young woman without any kind of job in authority or work with kids. I mentioned it because I've seen a talk previously about using term guys.

I think an inside source told Gray Hughes that Libby was holding the phone low near her pocket so that the suspect would not see it...but as with everything else we have to take that with a grain of salt

 

[Fika]

I think an inside source told Gray Hughes that Libby was holding the phone low near her pocket so that the suspect would not see it...but as with everything else we have to take that with a grain of salt

If he would seen being filmed he probably woud have destroyed the phone at least I would assume he would. It would be pretty damming evidence of having himself filmed.

 

[Inthedetails]

He couldn't have known their father is not someone around a bit behind.

snipped

Interesting point. Makes me think he did know the girls were alone.

I'm sure the girls told him their ride would be there, pleading with him to let them go, but he knew where to take them and how to finish fast.

But with the initial encounter, he must have been confident they were alone. So how did he know that?

jmo

 

[Silver_produce0]

It makes sense to me that LE assumes he's either local, or has some family or business link to the area, because it seems too improbable for him to be there otherwise. This is just how I see it.

What is Indiana like in terms of hiking and walking trails? I am in eastern PA and we have a lot going on in that department. It wouldn’t be difficult for me to find a low traffic area with potential to take a person off the trail for heinous acts. My point is that he might not be local but living within a certain distance makes it a hell of a lot easier to plan something like this. Less time on the road is less potential to be seen, to need to stop for gas and be caught on camera, to blow out a tire or get in an accident. Less time to explain away for an alibi, if needed. It’s also easier to search for potential sites within an hour or two.

I think if he’s a true local local he would have been identified. But I would bet my life that he’s within an hour or two at most away.

 

[Yemelyan]

That would probably made the most sense to me as to why filming him if his behavior was instead of threatening to rather strange or talking to himself loudly.
I of course understand that the girls couldn't have known the danger they would be in. But for some reason I find that recording someone when you feel something feels off about them is a strange course of action. But yet im not a teen and I'm from different continent so maybe that is why I find it strange.

IMO it is a part of American culture, maybe in particular teen culture, to document things this way. Maybe it doesn't happen as much where you are but in America videos are constantly going viral where a bystander just happened to video something they found strange at the time - maybe it was bad behavior that they wanted to out/shame (which is kind of what I think happened in Delphi), maybe it is just part of the general trend of being able to share weird/funny stuff with friends.

 

[Fika]

snipped

Interesting point. Makes me think he did know the girls were alone.

I'm sure the girls told him their ride would be there, pleading with him to let them go, but he knew where to take them and how to finish fast.

But with the initial encounter, he must have been confident they were alone. So how did he know that?

jmo

The only way he would have known that for sure if he seen them being dropped off. Seen them walking alone. If he didn't see them before on trail he couldn't have known there is not someone right behind them. That makes me think he seen them but not necessarily they have seen him. He could also watch them on the bridge for a while without being seen and realize they are alone then decided to attack them. Still very very risky anyone could have just come up and see them.

 

[Yemelyan]

snipped

Interesting point. Makes me think he did know the girls were alone.

I'm sure the girls told him their ride would be there, pleading with him to let them go, but he knew where to take them and how to finish fast.

But with the initial encounter, he must have been confident they were alone. So how did he know that?

jmo

Some people think he saw them getting dropped off or their ride leaving them unattended.

Some things that point to this would be the fact that at some point after they found the cellphone, LE extended their definition of the crime scene to include the trailhead (information from KR in DTH Episode 2) and DC's musings in DTH that "he stood here, even on the first day" while DC was interviewed at the trailhead sign (though, I haven't listened to this episode in a long time so I would need to refresh my memory on his exact comments). It's my understanding that the current sign in that location is different than what was there at the time of the murders.

 

[Fika]

IMO it is a part of American culture, maybe in particular teen culture, to document things this way. Maybe it doesn't happen as much where you are but in America videos are constantly going viral where a bystander just happened to video something they found strange at the time - maybe it was bad behavior that they wanted to out/shame (which is kind of what I think happened in Delphi), maybe it is just part of the general trend of being able to share weird/funny stuff with friends.


It's probably normal here as well. I'm far from teen years and dont really know any teens. I changed my mind to that matter, at first I thought he randomly walked on frame now I think that they indeed recorded him on purpose because of something he did something strange or funny. Maybe he walked the bridge real fast? Girls thought that's cool and recorded it.

 

[TL4S]

I swear, somewhere out there is a source with a few quotes from a classmate or friend of L or A where she said something about how one of the girls regularly took photos or videos of guys and showed them to her, teasing like it was her boyfriend or something along those lines. I believe that same source, same person even, said something about L probably not having reception because they usually don't right around the bridge. I've scoured the articles and can't find it. I need to check the podcasts next.

Please, anyone know the source?

 

[Yemelyan]

I swear, somewhere out there is an article with a few quotes from a classmate or friend of L's, where she said something about how one of the girls regularly took photos or videos of guys and showed them to her, teasing like it was her boyfriend or something along those lines. I believe that same article, same person even, said something about L probably not having reception because they usually don't right around the bridge. I've scoured the articles and can't find it.

Please, anyone know the source?

In one of the podcasts, I believe Down the Hill, there is a discussion about the fact that Abby didn't have a cellphone but would sometimes grab the phone of a friend and use it to snap a photo of a guy and then tease "that's your boyfriend." I don't want to put the name of the friend who said this here because she is a minor, I believe. But she is interviewed several times in the podcast.

The same friend describes in the beginning of the podcast how she saw the Snap of the girls on the bridge before they were known to be murdered. She also participated in the search and gives her thoughts and feelings on that.