Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #132

[MistyWaters]

Reporter Rich Van Wyk of WTHR posted this video to his twitter feed (it is no longer available on his feed) on Sunday February 19th, 2017 with a post saying that family had placed flowers where the girls were found. The video is short and zooms in to show the flowers.

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Yes I recall this was discussed a lot in the past. While the “do not cross” crime scene tape was up, just inside would seem the best location possible to place flowers. But I don’t think anyone believes the bodies were found exactly in that same spot littered with leaves? I think sometimes it’s easy to take things a bit too literally - indeed it’s reasonable to assume the bodies were “found” somewhere within an area that was secured by crime scene tape.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

Be nice if there was a break.
Witnesses, video footage, voice sample, probably a footprint, possible vehicle sighting.
Somethings got to give!

 

[MistyWaters]

Reporter Rich Van Wyk of WTHR posted this video to his twitter feed (it is no longer available on his feed) on Sunday February 19th, 2017 with a post saying that family had placed flowers where the girls were found. The video is short and zooms in to show the flowers.

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Yes this was discussed a lot in the past. While the “do not cross” crime scene tape was up, just inside would seem the best location possible to place flowers. But I don’t think anyone believes the bodies were found exactly in that same spot littered with leaves? I think sometimes it’s easy to take things a bit too literally - indeed it’s reasonable to assume the bodies were “found” somewhere within the crime scene tape. Does the family know exactly where, even now? I don’t recall them saying so.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

It appears as if there’s more than one area taped off because the right side in this photo is much different than other photos.

It's the only photo I've come across that shows the police tape tied to a tree on the water's edge. I think that smaller area that's been discussed, that was taped off, could be where Libby's phone was found?

 

[MistyWaters]

It's the only photo I've come across that shows the police tape tied to a tree on the water's edge. I think that smaller area that's been discussed, that was taped off, could be where Libby's phone was found?

Or shoe prints?

 

[TL4S]

Maybe the vehicle that LE are interested in is seen on surveillance footage of some sort in multiple locations on the day the girls were killed? Perhaps that's why it's such a broad amount of time at the CPS building - noon to 5 - because it came and went at different times OR they believe it went other places, like the cemetery, during the period of time it wasn't parked there?

You know, that's an interesting idea. I lean toward this being a mostly unplanned event, with him getting triggered for whatever reason by seeing the girls on the road, dropped off, or on the trail. Him being on that road or trail for originally normal reasons would indicate someone local, imo.

But, I'd never considered that maybe right after he killed them and went back to his vehicle (in this case at the CPS lot), that maybe he then drove to and parked at the cemetery, the most direct access to the crime scene area, afterwards. Knowing the cemetery's close proximity to the bodies would signal him being familiar with the area. Maybe he revisited the bodies, or took something, or forgot something, or needed something from his vehicle. He likely didn't know DG was there calling and looking for the girls right away. Just a thought...

 

[photographer4]

Instead of admitting to possible regrets, TLs stating LE didn't know what LE had on their hands in those early hours as far as a double homicide of not one but two little girls from their tiny town.

I'm not sure BG would have been arrested before now even if the Delphi Daughters had been found on Monday, even before dark.

RLs property would have been searched, if he'd been home. Instead, RL was out breaking parole violations when he was needed at his home to give permission for the searches on his land for these precious children.

What difference would it have made if they had been found on Monday opposed to Tuesday as for a better opportunity to nab BG?

Possibly less contamination of the general area by further searching through the night and into the following day?

 

[DeDee]

Possibly less contamination of the general area by further searching through the night and into the following day?

Yes, absolutely reasonable to believe. TL told us that it was bitterly cold and the terrain was dangerous for official LEO to continue searching into the night. Liability issues?

The temperatures dropped down to 33 degrees with steady wind gusts up to 7.5mph.

West Lafayette, IN Weather History | Weather Underground

Thank you for being here. Your presence has rejuvenated discussions.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Yes I recall this was discussed a lot in the past. While the “do not cross” crime scene tape was up, just inside would seem the best location possible to place flowers. But I don’t think anyone believes the bodies were found exactly in that same spot littered with leaves? I think sometimes it’s easy to take things a bit too literally - indeed it’s reasonable to assume the bodies were “found” somewhere within an area that was secured by crime scene tape.

JMO

That video is zoomed a lot already before it zooms further. The flowers are much further into the crime scene area than it appears - probably 40 feet.

The location the flowers are positioned:
In the first attachment: the photo with RL's dog just past the tip of the arrow.
In the second attachment; a screenshot from the 10 second mark of the WXIN raw footage video I posted the other day, just past the tip of the arrow.
In the third attachment: the photo showing the northwest corner of the crime scene area, just past the tip of the arrow.

Of all the places in the crime scene area to randomly place flowers it seems oddly specific.

 

[Angels Advocate]

The area south of the cemetery does feel like more than just a blocked access point to the real crime scene, imo, because it appears to be taped-off on three sides. It's obvious I'm open to considering there's an unknown CS farther east, but I do think the taped-off area is either it, or maybe where they crossed the creek (or both). I'm having a hard time, however, reconciling LE leaving the spot where two children died, on private property, taped-off for weeks after the the fact, but maybe that's normal procedure.

I also thought it was standard procedure to preserve the possible entrance and exit paths, as well, but it seems the cemetery wasn't considered that at the time of the investigation. That's odd to me, if the taped-off area is indeed the final CS, because of its proximity, but I'm not LE. Here's what TL said in the Comet Q&A:


Q. Are there regrets about not securing the Morning Heights Cemetery as a possible part of the crime scene (i.e. possible exit route of the killer(s)?

A. At the time, it was uncertain exactly what the “totality of the circumstances” were.
------

Q. There are many residents of the county that have never been on the trails, describe the terrain of where the girls were found? What is the most direct route out of the area they were found? How long of a walk from where they entered to where they were found?

A. Very similar to one of the state’s parks. A lot of hills, brush, trees, etc. Directly south of the Morning Heights Cemetery but on private property. I do not recall the specific distance.

“Totality of the circumstances” is a legal term of art and does not fit as an answer to that question. There is much more going on with this case.

Instead of admitting to possible regrets, TLs stating LE didn't know what LE had on their hands in those early hours as far as a double homicide of not one but two little girls from their tiny town.

I'm not sure BG would have been arrested before now even if the Delphi Daughters had been found on Monday, even before dark.

RLs property would have been searched, if he'd been home. Instead, RL was out breaking parole violations when he was needed at his home to give permission for the searches on his land for these precious children.

What difference would it have made if they had been found on Monday opposed to Tuesday as for a better opportunity to nab BG?

I don’t know. My only point is the one I made and the essence of that is we should try to sleuth what is missing from this case.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Just MOO, but maybe because that person is a minor, LE would need parent permission tpo speak with them, and the parent(s) are refusing to give permission?

That sounds like the most logical answer!!!! MOO.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

That video is zoomed a lot already before it zooms further. The flowers are much further into the crime scene area than it appears - probably 40 feet.

The location the flowers are positioned:
In the first attachment: the photo with RL's dog just past the tip of the arrow.
In the second attachment; a screenshot from the 10 second mark of the WXIN raw footage video I posted the other day, just past the tip of the arrow.
In the third attachment: the photo showing the northwest corner of the crime scene area, just past the tip of the arrow.

Of all the places in the crime scene area to randomly place flowers it seems oddly specific.

The bark of some of the trees look odd. IMO. It makes me wonder if the girls were strapped (somehow strapped/stuck to it) on a tree. Eeek.

 

[photographer4]

Yes, absolutely reasonable to believe. TL told us that it was bitterly cold and the terrain was dangerous for official LEO to continue searching into the night. Liability issues?

The temperatures dropped down to 33 degrees with steady wind gusts up to 7.5mph.

West Lafayette, IN Weather History | Weather Underground

Thank you for being here. Your presence has rejuvenated discussions.

Awww shucks! Thanks for having me! Y'all are amazing to discuss things with!

 

[photographer4]

“Totality of the circumstances” is a legal term of art and does not fit as an answer to that question. There is much more going on with this case.


I don’t know. My only point is the one I made and the essence of that is we should try to sleuth what is missing from this case.

I love your idea that there is more to this case than meets the eye based on the "totality of the circumstances"! When you pointed out that it is a legal term, it prompted me to begin to search & understand its legal basis - still reading through but what a great topic for discussion!

https://www.in.gov/ctb/files/appendix1.pdf

 

[photographer4]

The bark of some of the trees look odd. IMO. It makes me wonder if the girls were strapped (somehow strapped/stuck to it) on a tree. Eeek.

I zoomed it to try to see and I noticed some areas where bark seems worn off... I considered a few possibilities, but I settled on maybe its from animals rubbing up against the trees? Scratching antlers? Leaving scent? Scratching itch? I don't know, but that is as far as my mind was willing to go in imagining why.

 

[FrostedGlass]

There should have been a ton of info in connection with this...

From Scene of the Crime, episode 4:
Ives submitted subs for all cell phones within a 5 mile radius that day to determine who was in the area on the 13th.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I love your idea that there is more to this case than meets the eye based on the "totality of the circumstances"! When you pointed out that it is a legal term, it prompted me to begin to search & understand its legal basis - still reading through but what a great topic for discussion!

https://www.in.gov/ctb/files/appendix1.pdf

I thought it was a great topic, too. Let's find something we've missed!
Still reading: 114 pgs Can you give us a summary?

 

[TL4S]

“Totality of the circumstances” is a legal term of art and does not fit as an answer to that question. There is much more going on with this case.


I don’t know. My only point is the one I made and the essence of that is we should try to sleuth what is missing from this case.

I guess I combined this answer with past responses to similar questions. I took it to mean that at the time the bodies were found and LE secured the area, they didn't know really anything other than that the girls were there and maybe had come from across the creek where footprints apparently were. They said it wasn't until they found L's phone later that same day that they knew the crime scene as a whole needed to include at least the bridge (even the trailhead, possibly).

But I would wholly agree... there's more to it and we know very little.

 

[photographer4]

I thought it was a great topic, too. Let's find something we've missed!
Still reading: 114 pgs Can you give us a summary?

I mean, I'm a fast reader but not that fast! LOL. If you use the search feature to search keywords... you might find the relevant topic quicker (on any webpage, if you're on Windows, you hold ctrl and the f keys at the same time, a search bar pops up for me in the upper right corner. Type in your search word. I used "totality" and it will highlight anywhere in the doc / page that word appears. Works on Mac too, but I don't know which two keys you have to press on Mac to make this search thing work).

It seems to apply to search and seizure / warrants. That was the general gist I got (again, at a glance!).

 

[sunshineray]

I love your idea that there is more to this case than meets the eye based on the "totality of the circumstances"! When you pointed out that it is a legal term, it prompted me to begin to search & understand its legal basis - still reading through but what a great topic for discussion!

https://www.in.gov/ctb/files/appendix1.pdf

WS does have rules for discussion which are written in stone..."bright-line" rules. Unless LE verifies more things as certain we can only sleuth within perimeters.

It doesn't mean our minds are closed or stagnant. We've all surely studied the not-talk-about-things and incorporated some unverified information in our theories. We just can't lay all that out on these threads for discussion.

Until we know a heck of of what LE knows, there isn't enough facts available to even competently analyze the circumstances...yet. JMO