Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #135

[Ozoner]

What even the folks that apparently "saw" BG that day ?

Yes, even them. It's been proved time and time again that eyewitnesses often finger the wrong person. Eyewitnesses' memories are unreliable.

 

[Barbieshell]

I disagree with the hold-back strategy, while at the same time admitting that if I knew what they were holding back I might actually agree with holding it back. So I just cross my fingers that they know what they're doing, and hope for the best.

I'm hoping the "you want to know what we know" is indicative of the fact that LE may still have an Ace up their sleeve, we all live in hope that they have something that will see that banged to rights. JMOO

 

[Barbieshell]

Yes, even them. It's been proved time and time again that eyewitnesses often finger the wrong person. Eyewitnesses' memories are unreliable.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, many a case has relied upon witnesses picking out a suspect from a lineup or the "big book of similar looking perps" - if say all the witnesses pick out the same bloke - BINGO !!!!!!!
JMOO

 

[MistyWaters]

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, many a case has relied upon witnesses picking out a suspect from a lineup or the "big book of similar looking perps" - if say all the witnesses pick out the same bloke - BINGO !!!!!!!
JMOO

I think there’s a difference between someone who actually observes a crime taking place or a suspect fleeing from the scene because then they have a good reason to remember while the sketch would be drawn immediately following the incident while their memory is fresh. Here the witnesses didn’t know the person they sighted had murdered two teens because no foul play was suspected at the time and it was days and more following before they worked with the sketch artist.

Just my opinion but considering these witnesses weren’t eye witnesses, I don’t think they’d become key witnesses in any future prosecution. But LE went with the first and second sketches hoping it would lead to lucrative tips for them to work toward placing a suspect at the crime scene who was responsible for the murders.

 

[Inthedetails]

I think this is the strongest point, yes.

If Chadwell had been arrested in the Delphi area for say, stealing a car, and they were noticing a physical similarity to BG, I would think, Nah, he’s just a petty criminal who’s a repeat offender, but likely not a killer.

He’s proven otherwise.

Bingo. I think he hasn't been on their lists because his crimes are so different. Yes, I know people are saying all felons get their DNA taken. Well, maybe the matching system isn't as efficient as people say. (My opinion, and I know people disagree on that). Or, they don't have enough DNA to match that way.

I think "hiding in plain sight" in reality will turn out to mean he was in plain sight of LE and courts, not a "regular guy" in plain sight.

jmo

 

[SMK777]

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, many a case has relied upon witnesses picking out a suspect from a lineup or the "big book of similar looking perps" - if say all the witnesses pick out the same bloke - BINGO !!!!!!!
JMOO

Yes, the original case against Timothy Hennis was nailed basically by an eyewitness that placed him at the scene; nothing else definitively connected him to the crime scene.

 

[Justice101]

Bingo. I think he hasn't been on their lists because his crimes are so different. Yes, I know people are saying all felons get their DNA taken. Well, maybe the matching system isn't as efficient as people say. (My opinion, and I know people disagree on that). Or, they don't have enough DNA to match that way.

I think "hiding in plain sight" in reality will turn out to mean he was in plain sight of LE and courts, not a "regular guy" in plain sight.

jmo

I thought I read somewhere that even though he was a felon, he may not be in the system due to the state and the type of crime(s) he had committed. But much more likely that they don't have a complete DNA sample from the killer.

 

[SMK777]

I thought I read somewhere that even though he was a felon, he may not be in the system due to the state and the type of crime(s) he had committed. But much more likely that they don't have a complete DNA sample from the killer.

I think it’s quite possible that both may be true, yes.

 

[Yemelyan]

Please don't take this as me saying that JBC - what we know of him anyway - is not a good possible fit for the Delphi crime. I think his physical appearance is consistent with the video, his known crime makes him capable, and he's in the proximity where he could have known about the bridge and the trail. So let's hope he's the one.

However - if you think he's the only man with that general height and weight, in that age range, in that general area, who has already done a similar crime of criminal confinement/kidnapping and sexual battery/rape/child molesting, you're not facing the facts, unfortunately.

Howard County, Indiana (Kokomo, etc) has 186 sex offenders, Tippecanoe County (Lafayette, etc) has over 200, and Carroll County has at least 42. Scroll through their profiles and even if you ONLY look at the ones classified as sexually violent predators, you will see plenty of men convicted of pretty similar crimes to what JBC did. I just did a basic scroll and most sexually violent offenders in that part of Indiana have been classified that way due to their crimes of child molestation (the same crime JBC is charged with - which includes forcible intercourse with a child).

And these are just the offenders who have already been caught.

So let's not get tunnel vision. Great as it would be to think there's only one monster like JBC responsible for all these cases we'd like to see resolved, it's just not reality.

 

[Inthedetails]

Please don't take this as me saying that JBC - what we know of him anyway - is not a good possible fit for the Delphi crime. I think his physical appearance is consistent with the video, his known crime makes him capable, and he's in the proximity where he could have known about the bridge and the trail. So let's hope he's the one.

However - if you think he's the only man with that general height and weight, in that age range, in that general area, who has already done a similar crime of criminal confinement/kidnapping and sexual battery/rape/child molesting, you're not facing the facts, unfortunately.

Howard County, Indiana (Kokomo, etc) has 186 sex offenders, Tippecanoe County (Lafayette, etc) has over 200, and Carroll County has at least 42. Scroll through their profiles and even if you ONLY look at the ones classified as sexually violent predators, you will see plenty of men convicted of pretty similar crimes to what JBC did. I just did a basic scroll and most sexually violent offenders in that part of Indiana have been classified that way due to their crimes of child molestation (the same crime JBC is charged with - which includes forcible intercourse with a child).

And these are just the offenders who have already been caught.

So let's not get tunnel vision. Great as it would be to think there's only one monster like JBC responsible for all these cases we'd like to see resolved, it's just not reality.

Is the list narrowed down by who groomed a victim or assaulted a known person vs. those who attacked rabidly out of the blue on a stranger?

jmo

 

[SMK777]

Please don't take this as me saying that JBC - what we know of him anyway - is not a good possible fit for the Delphi crime. I think his physical appearance is consistent with the video, his known crime makes him capable, and he's in the proximity where he could have known about the bridge and the trail. So let's hope he's the one.

However - if you think he's the only man with that general height and weight, in that age range, in that general area, who has already done a similar crime of criminal confinement/kidnapping and sexual battery/rape/child molesting, you're not facing the facts, unfortunately.

Howard County, Indiana (Kokomo, etc) has 186 sex offenders, Tippecanoe County (Lafayette, etc) has over 200, and Carroll County has at least 42. Scroll through their profiles and even if you ONLY look at the ones classified as sexually violent predators, you will see plenty of men convicted of pretty similar crimes to what JBC did. I just did a basic scroll and most sexually violent offenders in that part of Indiana have been classified that way due to their crimes of child molestation (the same crime JBC is charged with - which includes forcible intercourse with a child).

And these are just the offenders who have already been caught.

So let's not get tunnel vision. Great as it would be to think there's only one monster like JBC responsible for all these cases we'd like to see resolved, it's just not reality.

Thanks for that info. Yeah, realistically, it would be almost too good to be true if Chadwell is BG.

As you stated, we can hope but should also bear in mind that as shocking as it is, in our present era these sexual crimes are sadly prevalent.

 

[Yemelyan]

Is the list narrowed down by who groomed a victim or assaulted a known person vs. those who attacked rabidly out of the blue on a stranger?

jmo

If you look on the details of their crimes, then yes. You can see who has charges of sexual battery and criminal confinement in addition to molestation vs what was charged as coercive sexual activity or child seduction.

And I'm sure for some of these cases, the whole story isn't even known because the offender was only charged with what LE could prove or it was pled down.

Look at this case from neighboring Howard County, IN. IMO this person was looked at for the Delphi murders as he was a registered sex offender in the tri-state area (in Kokomo) when Abby and Libby were killed and IMO they immediately looked into all sex offenders. I'm not going to use his name here because LE never named him as a suspect in MSM but this is from the court record on Justia of his appeal. This man should never have seen the light of day but he was out and working at an automotive plant in Kokomo during the time frame the Delphi murders occurred.

The victim,(redacted), was eleven (11) years old at the time of this incident. posed as a police officer to gain the confidence of (victim) and, after getting her in his automobile, detained her there for a period of three and one-half (3 1/2) hours. He used a knife to threaten her and induce her to do what he wished. He admitted he tried to have sexual intercourse with her. He also inflicted cuts on her throat, stomach, and wrists. The record of the guilty plea hearing revealed that had committed similar acts...

So this is what I'm thinking of when I say that I hope JBC is the one, but I have to acknowledge he's not the only sexual deviant in the area who has done a similar crime and who could be capable of this. Disturbing but sadly true.

 

[Inthedetails]

If you look on the details of their crimes, then yes. You can see who has charges of sexual battery and criminal confinement in addition to molestation vs what was charged as coercive sexual activity or child seduction.

And I'm sure for some of these cases, the whole story isn't even known because the offender was only charged with what LE could prove or it was pled down.

Look at this case from neighboring Howard County, IN. IMO this person was looked at for the Delphi murders as he was a registered sex offender in the tri-state area (in Kokomo) when Abby and Libby were killed and IMO they immediately looked into all sex offenders. I'm not going to use his name here because LE never named him as a suspect in MSM but this is from the court record on Justia of his appeal. This man should never have seen the light of day but he was out and working at an automotive plant in Kokomo during the time frame the Delphi murders occurred.

The victim,(redacted), was eleven (11) years old at the time of this incident. posed as a police officer to gain the confidence of (victim) and, after getting her in his automobile, detained her there for a period of three and one-half (3 1/2) hours. He used a knife to threaten her and induce her to do what he wished. He admitted he tried to have sexual intercourse with her. He also inflicted cuts on her throat, stomach, and wrists. The record of the guilty plea hearing revealed that had committed similar acts...

So this is what I'm thinking of when I say that I hope JBC is the one, but I have to acknowledge he's not the only sexual deviant in the area who has done a similar crime and who could be capable of this. Disturbing but sadly true.

Horrific....but I still stand by my belief there is something that sets a perp apart when he's ready to murder. To actually take another life out of the blue. I don't think that is common (thank goodness).

JBC is one of them. BG was one of them.

JBC didn't groom a victim, didn't spend much time preparing (as far as we know), didn't have a particular plan (as far as we know), didn't grow frustrated when encountering a fight bigger than he expected.....he pounced into the crime ready to use force to kill a child he spontaneously encountered. While there are others who do that, I think that put JBC into a smaller pool of criminals. I understand others might not agree and, unforuntately, there are numerous examples of heinous crimes.

jmo

 

[MizStery]

Gray Hughes has developed a theoretical timeline that is consistent with yours.

That 'timeline' is interesting. I know I'm going to sound picky, but I'm an auditor by profession and know there is value in the followup question(s). Here I wonder what is meant by "over". I believe, if I recall correctly, the posters and/or billboards give a time of ~2:30PM when the killer is caught on video on the bridge. So if one goes straight away from there to the crime scene, I would imagine they are all at the CS in the 2:50-3:00 timeframe. So does "over" mean that the killer was still at the CS at 3:30PM and spent 30-40 minutes involved with the girls - i.e., he had either just killed them by 3:30 or was doing other things at the CS after he killed them? Or did he kill them almost immediately arriving at the CS, walked to his vehicle and was driving out of the area by 3:30? (Based on Liberty's father trying to reach her between 3:00 and 3:11, I tend to believe it was the later.) That 30-40 minutes may not seem like much, but it affects how this killer did this and maybe important details as to the nature and methods of the killer. In any event, the fact that LE has timeline with an end time of 3:30 makes me believe LE has some very telling evidence at the CS.

In my opinion Jim Ryan’s theoretical timeline and Gray Hughe’s theoretical timeline (I listen to Gray on YouTube)are detailed and nailed down pretty tight for BG to try and make up an alibi.So I would personally add to your list posted below bridge guy had better have a tight alibi.

It's got to be either positive identification from the "witnesses", phone data / vehicle that places him in the immediate area, recovery of clothing / murder weapon / memento's from the crime scene recoverable from his property etc. I don't think they have enough DNA but you never know.....and perhaps a confession with a full account (but I think this would be the last thing anyone would give up unless it was a deal to take the death penalty off the table). JMOO

My Opinion Only

 

[Yemelyan]

Horrific....but I still stand by my belief there is something that sets a perp apart when he's ready to murder. To actually take another life out of the blue. I don't think that is common (thank goodness).

JBC is one of them. BG was one of them.

JBC didn't groom a victim, didn't spend much time preparing (as far as we know), didn't have a particular plan (as far as we know), didn't grow frustrated when encountering a fight bigger than he expected.....he pounced into the crime ready to use force to kill a child he spontaneously encountered. While there are others who do that, I think that put JBC into a smaller pool of criminals. I understand others might not agree and, unforuntately, there are numerous examples of heinous crimes.

jmo

He's definitely in that smaller pool, but it is a pool with more than one fish. And it doesn't do anyone any good to pretend there's only one of these guys. That's all I'm saying. We don't know enough about what happened to Abby and Libby to say if the crime JBC committed is more similar than the crime of Mr. "Kokomo" that I quoted above. And both were in the area, fit the general description. I'll be honest with you, when I first saw Mr. "Kokomo's" mugshot I didn't see how anyone could be a closer match to BG. But we haven't heard one word from LE about him, just that they looked into area sex offenders in general.

All MOO..

 

[Inthedetails]

But we haven't heard one word from LE about him, just that they looked into area sex offenders in general.

Snipped

Perhaps they didn't find him because he isn't in the group of known sex offenders.

jmo

 

[SMK777]

He's definitely in that smaller pool, but it is a pool with more than one fish. And it doesn't do anyone any good to pretend there's only one of these guys. That's all I'm saying. We don't know enough about what happened to Abby and Libby to say if the crime JBC committed is more similar than the crime of Mr. "Kokomo" that I quoted above. And both were in the area, fit the general description. I'll be honest with you, when I first saw Mr. "Kokomo's" mugshot I didn't see how anyone could be a closer match to BG. But we haven't heard one word from LE about him, just that they looked into area sex offenders in general.

All MOO..

I wonder if they still have him on their radar? Perhaps someone gave him an alibi…

I must confess that when I first heard of JBC, I asked myself, What are the chances that there’d be a sex crime like this right in the tiny Delphi area, unless he’s BG? I simply had no idea how prevalent it had become…

 

[MistyWaters]

Please don't take this as me saying that JBC - what we know of him anyway - is not a good possible fit for the Delphi crime. I think his physical appearance is consistent with the video, his known crime makes him capable, and he's in the proximity where he could have known about the bridge and the trail. So let's hope he's the one.

However - if you think he's the only man with that general height and weight, in that age range, in that general area, who has already done a similar crime of criminal confinement/kidnapping and sexual battery/rape/child molesting, you're not facing the facts, unfortunately.

Howard County, Indiana (Kokomo, etc) has 186 sex offenders, Tippecanoe County (Lafayette, etc) has over 200, and Carroll County has at least 42. Scroll through their profiles and even if you ONLY look at the ones classified as sexually violent predators, you will see plenty of men convicted of pretty similar crimes to what JBC did. I just did a basic scroll and most sexually violent offenders in that part of Indiana have been classified that way due to their crimes of child molestation (the same crime JBC is charged with - which includes forcible intercourse with a child).

And these are just the offenders who have already been caught.

So let's not get tunnel vision. Great as it would be to think there's only one monster like JBC responsible for all these cases we'd like to see resolved, it's just not reality.

I agree, no way JBC is the only possibility. The perpetrator may’ve also moved out of state anytime after Feb/17. More than four years after the fact and considering the media focus on Delphi, no reason to believe he still must be residing close by.

BBM
“We have a strong suspicion that the person is either from the area, has visited there before or has lived in the Delphi area for a number of years," said Sgt. Kim Riley of the State Police, who has served as a spokesman in the investigation….”
Delphi killings: What we know about killings of Abby and Libby

 

[IceIce9]

I wonder if they still have him on their radar? Perhaps someone gave him an alibi…

I must confess that when I first heard of JBC, I asked myself, What are the chances that there’d be a sex crime like this right in the tiny Delphi area, unless he’s BG? I simply had no idea how prevalent it had become…

Sex offenders and child molesters all over the state, here’s another
Bloomington man charged with child molesting, seduction - WISH-TV | Indianapolis News | Indiana Weather | Indiana Traffic

 

[SMK777]

Sex offenders and child molesters all over the state, here’s another
Bloomington man charged with child molesting, seduction - WISH-TV | Indianapolis News | Indiana Weather | Indiana Traffic

Good grief, a ten year old. Yes, much more prevalent than I had been aware of.