Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #135

[SMK777]

While I realize that there would have been many footprints in and around the crime scene at Delphi, I wonder if they were able to "lift shoe prints".

I hope so, because that could be a solid link (if clear enough, or assuming that JBC or whomever is the real BG didn’t dispose of them right after.)

 

[MistyWaters]

When the two still frames below were released a few days apart early on, many ppl here speculated they didn’t look like the same person, although we know otherwise. The photo on the left appears to depict a far younger person than the person on the right.

However neither photo clearly reveals facial features nor have LE ever asked the public to focus on the face in the photo. They were released in hopes somebody might recognize the image of the man as a whole.

Apparently both NASA and Disney assisted in clarifying the photo and according to GH, the video was taken by Libby at a distance of about 80 feet. So it’s possible the photos were so low in quality that the work to clarify them gave the suspect an appearance of a face. If the facial features were believed to be recognizable, there’d have been no reason for LE to release sketches. JMO

View attachment 297058
3 years unsolved: A look back at the Delphi murder case

Quoting my earlier post for reference to the two different photos. For the benefit of those who began following the case more recently, this is my recollect only as unfortunately I’m unable to find the MSM video. I’ve looked for it on and off for about two years and my conclusion is it was deleted along with others as time passes.

Early on there was significant comment about the shoddy quality of the released photos. So the video I recall was of a PC and LE (can’t remember who) remarked with almost a slight smirk that people have asked why we didn’t get the FBI to assist them to improve the quality of the photo. He commented something about the low quality of the image in the video, I think the word used was “mess”, that it was improved as best as possible even with the assistance of Disney and NASA.

So I wonder - possibly an attempt to clarify the photo wasn’t collective, it was separate. Disney worked on one and NASA the other. Unless an image is 100% the real thing, I’d imagine some judgement always is involved with the task of perfecting and enlarging a blurry pixelated image.

As a result LE is left with ambiguity - the facial image of the suspect might depict either a younger or older person. So it would make sense for LE to later release a younger-guy sketch based on a witness recollect IF further analysis of the blurry video indicated the likeness of the younger guy photo was probably the more accurate of the two different renderings.

JMO

 

[JnRyan]

Quoting my earlier post for reference to the two different photos. For the benefit of those who began following the case more recently, this is my recollect only as unfortunately I’m unable to find the MSM video. I’ve looked for it on and off for about two years and my conclusion is it was deleted along with others as time passes.

Early on there was significant comment about the shoddy quality of the released photos. So the video I recall was of a PC and LE (can’t remember who) remarked with almost a slight smirk that people have asked why we didn’t get the FBI to assist them to improve the quality of the photo. He commented something about the low quality of the image in the video, I think the word used was “mess”, that it was improved as best as possible even with the assistance of Disney and NASA.

So I wonder - possibly an attempt to clarify the photo wasn’t collective, it was separate. Disney worked on one and NASA the other. Unless an image is 100% the real thing, I’d imagine some judgement always is involved with the task of perfecting and enlarging a blurry pixelated image.

As a result LE is left with ambiguity - the facial image of the suspect might depict either a younger or older person. So it would make sense for LE to later release a younger-guy sketch based on a witness recollect IF further analysis of the blurry video indicated the likeness of the younger guy photo was probably the more accurate of the two different renderings.

JMO

Wow! I hadn't thought of that. You've REALLY muddied the waters with that possibility. Perhaps you should change your screen name?

 

[minazoe]

All I know is my highly analytical, non emotional or excitable in any way at any time husband... ( except when computers don't work). took one look at the sketch and then at JBC ..looked at me and said that's him.

I see they were having trouble pinning down the nose..and as I can clearly see , JBC looks very different from different angles...VERY DIFFERENT. when you put the larger nose onto the younger sketch I think it is accurate..also with the hat pulled down it hides a great deal of the forehead and jaw and ears with flaps on the sides..in set second sketch he is clean shaven and the nose looks different as if the person was unsure or couldn't describe it well. mOO

 

[SMK777]

All I know is my highly analytical, non emotional or excitable in any way at any time husband... ( except when computers don't work). took one look at the sketch and then at JBC ..looked at me and said that's him.

That’s inspiring.

 

[Mamamerced]

Am I the only one who questions the 2nd sketch in relation to JBC? The male in the 2nd sketch has a very prominent chin and very curly hair. JBC's chin is weak, not prominent. I have only seen one photo in which JBC has curly hair so, who knows? That second sketch looks nothing like JBC to me. However, it does look like a relative on the Patty side (I believe)of the family.....not implying a relative is the guilty one, just that the sketch reminded me of his photo which I saw a year or two ago. We need to quit with the sketch impressions, methinks.

 

[SMK777]

Am I the only one who questions the 2nd sketch in relation to JBC? The male in the 2nd sketch has a very prominent chin and very curly hair. JBC's chin is weak, not prominent. I have only seen one photo in which JBC has curly hair so, who knows? That second sketch looks nothing like JBC to me. However, it does look like a relative on the Patty side (I believe)of the family.....not implying a relative is the guilty one, just that the sketch reminded me of his photo which I saw a year or two ago. We need to quit with the sketch impressions, methinks.

Absolutely, the chin and hair are off — although JBC’s hair can look a bit wavy when shorter. But I do agree that the bridge footage pics and video and audio should be the focus, as they are the actual killer, captured by Libby.

If you do a Google search on well-known criminals and their composite sketches before they were caught, it’s amazing how absolutely off their chins, hair, eyes, noses were. Often looked not a bit like the actual person.

 

[SmallNut]

LE is privy to the crime scene and we are not. I tend to believe the age range of 18-40 and I don't think that was decided on a whim but witness accounts and profiling from the type of crime scene.

With regards to the clothing style being more likely to be worn by an older male perhaps he borrowed/took his fathers clothing? The legs really don't fill out the jeans and I tend to believe there is no hat and it is a hoodie over the head. Over time what I think I see changes. Rumours from witness accounts never mention a hat? I believe the witness that did recanted? All hearsay and not from LE of course.

It's very hard to say it's an old person for certain and LE is wrong when the video is so blurry. Imo.

Been following this case for a while, so hope this post is OK. I agree it appears that BG is wearing a grey hoodie - pulled up (to disguise face/ears?). JBC's fb profile picture (with the dog) appears to show him wearing a grey hoodie (or sweatshirt - can't see the back). It's a common garment (I'd say older people possibly less likely to wear hoodies where I live) - but if you disregard BG's overcoat you have a guy in a hoodie, jeans and what appear to be walking style boots (like the ones in the photo of JCB standing on the hilltop in an orange top). Fairly unremarkable for guys in their 30s onwards to middle age. Amazing what a difference the overcoat makes.

 

[MistyWaters]

This sketch and the photo to the immediate right bear an uncanny resemblance in my opinion. Whether or not it’s JBC, although it’s similar we will have to wait as LE surely require more evidence than resemblance to a grainy photo to convict.

Another reason I think two separate professional groups attempted to clarify the image as best they could for LE is the upper section of his head. The left photo, it might even be his hair with the brown hoodie behind his head. But the right, either the hoodie is up or it’s a hat. From one video frame to the next, a variance such as that wouldn’t ordinarily occur. JMO

DO YOU KNOW THIS MAN? *Help Solve the Delphi Murders - Share this Photo* - CrimeLights

 

[JudgeJoe]

This sketch and the photo to the immediate right bear an uncanny resemblance in my opinion. Whether or not it’s JBC, although it’s similar we will have to wait as LE surely require more evidence than resemblance to a grainy photo to convict.

Another reason I think two separate professional groups attempted to clarify the image as best they could for LE is the upper section of his head. The left photo, it might even be his hair with the brown hoodie behind his head. But the right, either the hoodie is up or it’s a hat. From one video frame to the next, a variance such as that wouldn’t ordinarily occur. JMO

DO YOU KNOW THIS MAN? *Help Solve the Delphi Murders - Share this Photo* - CrimeLights

The revised sketch overall- with the nose & facial hair from the original sketch- looks exactly like JBC2 imho. As for the clothes, walk, hands in pockets- nothing ever stood out to me. “Normal” for this age or that age is so influenced by family norms, geographic norms, occupational norms. Never seemed like much of a clue on its own. Jmo.

Some physical quirks are even genetic. The hands in pocket, if not from known family, could even be a thing from bio dad.
Inborn Genetic Learned And Cultural Signals - Body Language

 

[keystothekiller]

I would never discount the video footage of BG on Libby’s phone as Libby and Abby seem to be the only “eyewitnesses” to their murder. The video is not the best, but it’s all LE has. On the other hand, one of the BG sketches took the artist approx. four months to draw and could be the combination of multiple people’s recollection of the people they saw on the trail that day. Some estimate there were as many as 50 people on the trail that day!

So, not to be confused or stuck on looks I’m going to stick to the video.

What’s my impression of BG?

The first thing that stands out is his clothing, which to me has nothing to do with his age. It’s the fact that he seems overly dressed or layered as compare to Abby’s attire. Abby, being thin and having less body fat I think would be more affected by the weather, yet, she doesn’t seem to be the slightest bit cold or chilled (I think most female would wear their hair down and have jacket zipped up) Of course, she may have been exposed to the weather longer and been more acclimated to the temperature by 2:00pm that afternoon.

The question is why wasn’t BG? I can think of several reasons.

He could be older, as some poster think, older people tend to lose their ability to control their body temperature.

He could be younger, and hadn’t been on the trail long that day or hadn’t slept in the woods the night before.

Or, he could have just got off work at the Indiana Packers Corp. straight walk down the street to bridge end.

I must say IPC seems like a great company to work for and are known to employ felons that would normally have trouble finding work, they even have a ride sharing program in case you don’t have a car or can save on gas if you live a long distance away.

Indiana Packers: Our People Have Pride - YouTube

After viewing I can’t help noticing that everyone is dressed like BG! Most jackets are blue on top of many layers of warm clothing which includes hats with ear coverings etc.… Did you happen to notice the personal protective wear gloves/face/beard/hair coverings? I think BG was described as wearing something white, possibly a scarf around his neck/face area, which doesn’t coordinate with the rest of his clothing, but does strongly resemble the face /hair nets seen at the factory. Their PPE could also explain what seems to be the lack of DNA at the crime scene. JMOO

 

[SMK777]

I would never discount the video footage of BG on Libby’s phone as Libby and Abby seem to be the only “eyewitnesses” to their murder. The video is not the best, but it’s all LE has. On the other hand, one of the BG sketches took the artist approx. four months to draw and could be the combination of multiple people’s recollection of the people they saw on the trail that day. Some estimate there were as many as 50 people on the trail that day!

So, not to be confused or stuck on looks I’m going to stick to the video.

What’s my impression of BG?

The first thing that stands out is his clothing, which to me has nothing to do with his age. It’s the fact that he seems overly dressed or layered as compare to Abby’s attire. Abby, being thin and having less body fat I think would be more affected by the weather, yet, she doesn’t seem to be the slightest bit cold or chilled (I think most female would wear their hair down and have jacket zipped up) Of course, she may have been exposed to the weather longer and been more acclimated to the temperature by 2:00pm that afternoon.

The question is why wasn’t BG? I can think of several reasons.

He could be older, as some poster think, older people tend to lose their ability to control their body temperature.

He could be younger, and hadn’t been on the trail long that day or hadn’t slept in the woods the night before.

Or, he could have just got off work at the Indiana Packers Corp. straight walk down the street to bridge end.

I must say IPC seems like a great company to work for and are known to employ felons that would normally have trouble finding work, they even have a ride sharing program in case you don’t have a car or can save on gas if you live a long distance away.

Indiana Packers: Our People Have Pride - YouTube

After viewing I can’t help noticing that everyone is dressed like BG! Most jackets are blue on top of many layers of warm clothing which includes hats with ear coverings etc.… Did you happen to notice the personal protective wear gloves/face/beard/hair coverings? I think BG was described as wearing something white, possibly a scarf around his neck/face area, which doesn’t coordinate with the rest of his clothing, but does strongly resemble the face /hair nets seen at the factory. Their PPE could also explain what seems to be the lack of DNA at the crime scene. JMOO

First off, I never realized that one of the sketches took 4 months to create — wow!

Secondly, this Indiana Packers Corporation raises interesting questions. I wonder how thoroughly LE was able to check out some of these workers who are ex-felons?

 

[SMK777]

This sketch and the photo to the immediate right bear an uncanny resemblance in my opinion. Whether or not it’s JBC, although it’s similar we will have to wait as LE surely require more evidence than resemblance to a grainy photo to convict.

Do you mean the close-set eyes and the nose? Or the general gestalt? The chin is definitely not a match.

 

[taylorss]

I can see the perp stashing a bottle under his jacket while he heads to a favorite drinking spot by the river, and then encounters prey.

I'm not tied to that idea, but I can see it. And I think it fits JBC.

I sure wish he knew if JBC was at work that day and, if so, what shift.

jmo

someone posted I think in the last thread that he was between jobs at the time

 

[MsBetsy]

Do you mean the close-set eyes and the nose? Or the general gestalt? The chin is definitely not a match.

I also don't think Chadwell has the droopy right eye that is depicted in both sketches. The only similarities I see are the face shape and the large nose in the first sketch. But then again, neither sketch may look like the killer. LE did say it was a ballpark estimate of what the suspect looks like. Jmo

 

[sunshineray]

Quoting my earlier post for reference to the two different photos. For the benefit of those who began following the case more recently, this is my recollect only as unfortunately I’m unable to find the MSM video. I’ve looked for it on and off for about two years and my conclusion is it was deleted along with others as time passes.

Early on there was significant comment about the shoddy quality of the released photos. So the video I recall was of a PC and LE (can’t remember who) remarked with almost a slight smirk that people have asked why we didn’t get the FBI to assist them to improve the quality of the photo. He commented something about the low quality of the image in the video, I think the word used was “mess”, that it was improved as best as possible even with the assistance of Disney and NASA.

So I wonder - possibly an attempt to clarify the photo wasn’t collective, it was separate. Disney worked on one and NASA the other. Unless an image is 100% the real thing, I’d imagine some judgement always is involved with the task of perfecting and enlarging a blurry pixelated image.

As a result LE is left with ambiguity - the facial image of the suspect might depict either a younger or older person. So it would make sense for LE to later release a younger-guy sketch based on a witness recollect IF further analysis of the blurry video indicated the likeness of the younger guy photo was probably the more accurate of the two different renderings.

JMO

I did find reference to this but as I've not watched the episode myself I cannot direct to the proper time stamp were Anna Williams addresses it. Here's the info I found.

The Indiana Train Track Murders; The Search for a Killer

Dr. Phil: Season 16, Episode 65

Partial transcript from the "Dr. Phil Show - The Indiana Train Track Murders":

-Dr. Phil: Have they been able to high-res this picture and-and get a better image of the face and all than-than what we have here?
-Anna Williams: This is as good as it gets. When I say that they've said, the FBI said: "We've had a lot of people working... NASA, Disney, you name it, we worked on it. We've tried. This is the best we can do." Because everybody assumes that we can and, hmm--
-Dr. Phil: Okay. [conversation moves on to the sketch]

 

[iamnotagolem]

I would never discount the video footage of BG on Libby’s phone as Libby and Abby seem to be the only “eyewitnesses” to their murder. The video is not the best, but it’s all LE has. On the other hand, one of the BG sketches took the artist approx. four months to draw and could be the combination of multiple people’s recollection of the people they saw on the trail that day. Some estimate there were as many as 50 people on the trail that day!

So, not to be confused or stuck on looks I’m going to stick to the video.

What’s my impression of BG?

The first thing that stands out is his clothing, which to me has nothing to do with his age. It’s the fact that he seems overly dressed or layered as compare to Abby’s attire. Abby, being thin and having less body fat I think would be more affected by the weather, yet, she doesn’t seem to be the slightest bit cold or chilled (I think most female would wear their hair down and have jacket zipped up) Of course, she may have been exposed to the weather longer and been more acclimated to the temperature by 2:00pm that afternoon.

The question is why wasn’t BG? I can think of several reasons.

He could be older, as some poster think, older people tend to lose their ability to control their body temperature.

He could be younger, and hadn’t been on the trail long that day or hadn’t slept in the woods the night before.

Or, he could have just got off work at the Indiana Packers Corp. straight walk down the street to bridge end.

I must say IPC seems like a great company to work for and are known to employ felons that would normally have trouble finding work, they even have a ride sharing program in case you don’t have a car or can save on gas if you live a long distance away.

Indiana Packers: Our People Have Pride - YouTube

After viewing I can’t help noticing that everyone is dressed like BG! Most jackets are blue on top of many layers of warm clothing which includes hats with ear coverings etc.… Did you happen to notice the personal protective wear gloves/face/beard/hair coverings? I think BG was described as wearing something white, possibly a scarf around his neck/face area, which doesn’t coordinate with the rest of his clothing, but does strongly resemble the face /hair nets seen at the factory. Their PPE could also explain what seems to be the lack of DNA at the crime scene. JMOO

I must have missed any previous discussions about this, but I swear 3 times in the video I was like “that could be BG”. You aren’t kidding, the white full face/neck hairnet thing seems to be exactly what BG is wearing. Even the hats with ear flaps.

Surely LE got alibis for all of their employees, right?!?! I mean right?


ETA: I realized the packing plant was close by and the conversations around that but I never saw photos of what the employees wore.

 

[Spartygirl]

Referring to what you stated about the clothing after someone gets out of prison after having served 10+ years, every jail and prison has a 'clothing room'. When booked in, the clothing is placed in a bag with their name on it. Sometimes they do not want the clothing they came in with and it is given to someone getting out who doesn't have anything to wear. There winds up being quite an array of clothing left behind. Their clothing bag will follow them even if they get transferred from one facility to another or one prison to another. Chadwell's clothing would be there when he got out but probably wouldn't fit anymore, so he gets whatever they give him to be released in.

Also, after 10+ years of being incarcerated and eating starchy prison food, they will not be the same size they were when they came in. He would have access to whatever leftover clothing there might be in the 'clothing room'.

So there's that as well as Salvation Army, Goodwill, and so forth where you just can't be picky.

MOO

Thank you for that info.
That is exactly what I was thinking of when his clothing was being discussed.

 

[keystothekiller]

I must have missed any previous discussions about this, but I swear 3 times in the video I was like “that could be BG”. You aren’t kidding, the white full face/neck hairnet thing seems to be exactly what BG is wearing. Even the hats with ear flaps.

Surely LE got alibis for all of their employees, right?!?! I mean right?

 

[keystothekiller]

LE has stated that they have check out all 46 RSO that LIVED in Carroll Co. Not sure about those that just WORKED in the area.