Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #137

[Deleted member 229974]

Hypothetically speaking, if the witness was actually the criminal. Happens all the time. They're spotted at the crime scene and LE thinks they are a witness, and the perp plays along.

Holy crapola!

 

[heartgoesout]

Holy crapola!

Four + years we're all trying to fit someone being there instead of focusing on who was actually there, cause it couldn't possibly be the nice guy right?! IMO

 

[WildHuncher]

Four months since the latest possible big breakthrough.

Time to stop holding the breath.

 

[sandy_80]

Why would a witness lie?

this theory would just die
the witness in question was never a main witness... there were several witnesses and the main one is a FEMALE
so the idea that a witness invented the first sketch is nonsense...made up by the ever creative theorists

 

[Zabble]

this theory would just die
the witness in question was never a main witness... there were several witnesses and the main one is a FEMALE
so the idea that a witness invented the first sketch is nonsense...made up by the ever creative theorists

I do agree this theory has big holes in it. But I do find it odd that the couple "down by the bridge" did not see Libby, Abby or BG.

 

[heartgoesout]

this theory would just die
the witness in question was never a main witness... there were several witnesses and the main one is a FEMALE
so the idea that a witness invented the first sketch is nonsense...made up by the ever creative theorists

We do not actually know who was a main witness, a witness, or even a reliable witness.
Without theories and good research on those theories we sit for another 4 years. The goal is to leave no stone unturned to bring justice for Abby and Libby.

 

[heartgoesout]

I do agree this theory has big holes in it. But I do find it odd that the couple "down by the bridge" did not see Libby, Abby or BG.

I try harder to disprove a theory than make it fit. I'd be curious to hear what holes you feel there are.

 

[sandy_80]

We do not actually know who was a main witness, a witness, or even a reliable witness.
Without theories and good research on those theories we sit for another 4 years. The goal is to leave no stone unturned to bring justice for Abby and Libby.

Police said the witness who came forward months later with the OBG description was a WOMAN
Police say the sketch of the suspect is based off witness tips, including one woman who told police she saw this man near the Delphi Historic Trails the day Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered.
Sgt. Kim Riley accidentally revealed at the July 2017 press conference that the primary source of the OBG sketch is a WOMAN
“Basically, the hair color is a reddish-brown. SHE was --or the person was not clear on the color of the eyes, but the person said it was definitely not blue. SHE was very --the person was very obvious that it was not blue eyes, but they did mention that they were not clear on which color it was.”
....
July 17, 2017 - Press Conference Delphi Indiana Double Homicide Police Release Sketch of Bridge Guy (@ 05:52)
.....
sure you can theorize as you like...except it should not include framing witnesses or innocent ppl and turning them into POI...
ALSO it doesnt make any sense no matter how you put it...we know where it originated from and even that podcast failed completely to make it work
..
le thinks a witness lied and he is BG so they release a sketch of the so called witness ?
also ..this witness looks nothing like the sketch and its amazing how we view the same sketch with different eyes

 

[jenk]

But on the phone recording they don't recognize him. What could they have done to anger him? Said rude things to him in a grocery store? Went on his property? Bullied his child? I think police would have tracked these back.

how do you know they dont recognize him?

i meant something happened on the trail. some kind of altercation at the trail.

 

[jenk]

I feel like the 2 girls fought .
One probably tried to intervene while the killer was assaulting the other.
Strictly my opinion , but my gut says a blunt force trauma incurred that either incapacitated that particular girl or possibly ended her life.

I just believe he was able to cause 2 causalities because of the love and loyalty between the 2 victims.

MOO AMOO JMO

but its still a huge risk to try to kill two people at the same time. if this was some random opportunistic attack, why wouldnt he chose a lone victim?

that is why i feel this was not opportunistic. i feel something happened between them.

 

[minazoe]

well probably are bobcats and maybe bears.. it's Cali..and snakes.

 

[jenk]

well probably are bobcats and maybe bears.. it's Cali..and snakes.

delphi is in indiana not california

 

[OverTheRhine]

Police said the witness who came forward months later with the OBG description was a WOMAN
Police say the sketch of the suspect is based off witness tips, including one woman who told police she saw this man near the Delphi Historic Trails the day Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered.
Sgt. Kim Riley accidentally revealed at the July 2017 press conference that the primary source of the OBG sketch is a WOMAN
“Basically, the hair color is a reddish-brown. SHE was --or the person was not clear on the color of the eyes, but the person said it was definitely not blue. SHE was very --the person was very obvious that it was not blue eyes, but they did mention that they were not clear on which color it was.”
....
July 17, 2017 - Press Conference Delphi Indiana Double Homicide Police Release Sketch of Bridge Guy (@ 05:52)
.....
sure you can theorize as you like...except it should not include framing witnesses or innocent ppl and turning them into POI...
ALSO it doesnt make any sense no matter how you put it...we know where it originated from and even that podcast failed completely to make it work
..
le thinks a witness lied and he is BG so they release a sketch of the so called witness ?
also ..this witness looks nothing like the sketch and its amazing how we view the same sketch with different eyes

And I'm sure the witness who provided the younger sketch would have been shown a picture of the male witness everyone is talking about and asked if this is the person she saw. If she can provide an accurate description to the sketch artist, she would be able to say it's him. So like you say, why would they even release the sketch at that point? This whole thing is crazy and filled with holes. I've seen zero evidence whatsoever that he was anything more than at the trails that day. This kind of stuff just makes witnesses fearful to come out and say anything at all if they're just going to be victims of witchhunts.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Police said the witness who came forward months later with the OBG description was a WOMAN
Police say the sketch of the suspect is based off witness tips, including one woman who told police she saw this man near the Delphi Historic Trails the day Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered.
Sgt. Kim Riley accidentally revealed at the July 2017 press conference that the primary source of the OBG sketch is a WOMAN
“Basically, the hair color is a reddish-brown. SHE was --or the person was not clear on the color of the eyes, but the person said it was definitely not blue. SHE was very --the person was very obvious that it was not blue eyes, but they did mention that they were not clear on which color it was.”
....
July 17, 2017 - Press Conference Delphi Indiana Double Homicide Police Release Sketch of Bridge Guy (@ 05:52)
.....
sure you can theorize as you like...except it should not include framing witnesses or innocent ppl and turning them into POI...
ALSO it doesnt make any sense no matter how you put it...we know where it originated from and even that podcast failed completely to make it work
..
le thinks a witness lied and he is BG so they release a sketch of the so called witness ?
also ..this witness looks nothing like the sketch and its amazing how we view the same sketch with different eyes

I’m a bit confused about the two sketches issue, and need some clarification, please. The first sketch posted, the one with the hat, I think looks similar to BC. Who submitted that sketch and when? The second sketch posted, the one with no hat, who submitted that and when? I think the second one looks a little like a younger version of the first sketch, but it’s the forehead, hair line and texture that throws me off. Did the person who submitted the second sketch see a man without a hat? Thanks.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Forget the sketches. LE has muddled them both up so badly they mean nothing. Who knows if even they ever meant anything.
July 2017 sketch was from multiple people who saw this guy on the trails that day including a woman who came forward belatedly who supposedly got a real good look at him. The guy wore a hat, but not like the one in the sketch. He did not have blue eyes. This sketch was put out on thousands of flyers nationwide.
April 2019 sketch was made approx three days after the murders from someone who came to police to “report something they felt needed reporting”. No idea what that was. LE at the time said the 2017 sketch was now secondary...whatever that means. Later LE deemed 2019 sketch as the killer and who they were looking for, saying forget the 2017 sketch. LE over the next few months, tried to explain the sketches suggesting we should sorta kinda think of maybe perhaps they were both a little bit possibly correct. As LE sank farther into this swamp, for me at least, their credibility and the sketches’ merit completely disappeared.
More important I think than the sketches LE released at the April 2019 presser was the two second video. If you look at it frame by frame it becomes pretty apparent that BG is much younger and much thinner than the middle aged or older pot bellied guy we were led to believe he was. The question then is why LE allowed the public for two years to believe that.


Edit: typo

 

[infinit]

This is an interesting technology which I'd be interested to see being applied to this case: Google AI Blog: High Fidelity Image Generation Using Diffusion Models

 

[heartgoesout]

Forget the sketches. LE has muddled them both up so badly they mean nothing. Who knows if even they ever meant anything.
July 2017 sketch was from multiple people who saw this guy on the trails that day including a woman who came forward belatedly who supposedly got a real good look at him. The guy wore a hat, but not like the one in the sketch. He did not have blue eyes. This sketch was put out on thousands of flyers nationwide.
April 2019 sketch was made approx three days after the murders from someone who came to police to “report something they felt needed reporting”. No idea what that was. LE at the time said the 2017 sketch was now secondary...whatever that means. Later LE deemed 2019 sketch as the killer and who they were looking for, saying forget the 2017 sketch. LE over the next few months, tried to explain the sketches suggesting we should sorta kinda think of maybe perhaps they were both a little bit possibly correct. As LE sank farther into this swamp, for me at least, their credibility and the sketches’ merit completely disappeared.
More important I think than the sketches LE released at the April 2019 presser was the two second video. If you look at it frame by frame it becomes pretty apparent that BG is much younger and much thinner than the middle aged or older pot bellied guy we were led to believe he was. The question then is why LE allowed the public for two years to believe that.


Edit: typo

Post of the year!!
And you are correct, why after two years did LE change the sketch? They didn't get a clearer picture, that had already been done as best as it was gonna get. A new witness didn't come forward or there would have been arrest.
Carter said "the new sketch is the result of new information and intelligence". What if, (speculating) that intelligence was someone's phone pinging there when they said they had left? Maybe something like this was what he meant by changing direction of the investigation, ie; new information. Someone is lying.

Carter was very emotional at that presser. IMO it was because they had realized from the new information and intelligence they were misled not only with the first sketch but alibis, timelines etc..which changed everything. When Carter said he "may be in this room", IMO it was to remind people not all killers look or act like killers.

So then the question begs who would mislead? Someone who would totally be able to corroborate because they were there to know the 5 W's, yet disagree politely enough.
Tobe said someone could have been interviewed as a witness instead of a POI.
"The Sheriff speculated that a perpetrator has probably been interviewed by investigators about the crime, but was not immediately recognized as a offender.
"We are still evaluating and looking at various pieces of all facets whether it be statements from witnesses to physical evidence." Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

IMO they were talking to, exactly how Carter said it, ..."directly to the killer" "you want to know what we know" indicates they talk to BG". BG has asked questions.

Carter said that he "believes that since the killer's image and voice were publicized, and they have not been able to identify a suspect, someone knows who he is but is keeping quiet because of "extreme fear." "Please, please, come forward and let us know what you know," Carter pleaded.

"There is obviously someone withholding information," added Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby. "It could very well be somewhere along the lines someone was even threatened not to reveal the identity of the killer."

They just need that one tip.
It is JMO but every article I read now this all makes sense.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Forget the sketches. LE has muddled them both up so badly they mean nothing. Who knows if even they ever meant anything.
July 2017 sketch was from multiple people who saw this guy on the trails that day including a woman who came forward belatedly who supposedly got a real good look at him. The guy wore a hat, but not like the one in the sketch. He did not have blue eyes. This sketch was put out on thousands of flyers nationwide.
April 2019 sketch was made approx three days after the murders from someone who came to police to “report something they felt needed reporting”. No idea what that was. LE at the time said the 2017 sketch was now secondary...whatever that means. Later LE deemed 2019 sketch as the killer and who they were looking for, saying forget the 2017 sketch. LE over the next few months, tried to explain the sketches suggesting we should sorta kinda think of maybe perhaps they were both a little bit possibly correct. As LE sank farther into this swamp, for me at least, their credibility and the sketches’ merit completely disappeared.
More important I think than the sketches LE released at the April 2019 presser was the two second video. If you look at it frame by frame it becomes pretty apparent that BG is much younger and much thinner than the middle aged or older pot bellied guy we were led to believe he was. The question then is why LE allowed the public for two years to believe that.


Edit: typo

Wow. Just wow. IF they ever do find BG, whoever he is, I sincerely hope he doesn’t get away with murder due to a misstep by the Keystone Cops. IMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

..... “IMO it was because they had realized from the new information and intelligence they were misled not only with the first sketch but alibis, timelines etc..which changed everything. .

Your post edited by me....

I would just add to your list of things that misled LE....their own incompetence.

 

[heartgoesout]

Your post edited by me....

I would just add to your list of things that misled LE....their own incompetence.

We've been hard on LE. Until I stop and think of all the people and agencies that were involved. A lot of cooks in the kitchen. Then taking all the collected information, that was/is confusing as heck, waiting for the technology, waiting on reports, waiting on pings and tower dumps and cloud info and so on and so on then making sure to communicate every last tip, piece of evidence, info, confusing story, potential lying witnesses. I do agree with the thought that it took an outside agency, ie; GBI to come in with fresh eyes, look at the info as a whole and start picking it apart and trying to make sense of it all. The April presser happens and Carter announces they are "just beginning".