Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #137

[infinit]

We've been hard on LE. Until I stop and think of all the people and agencies that were involved. A lot of cooks in the kitchen. Then taking all the collected information, that was/is confusing as heck, waiting for the technology, waiting on reports, waiting on pings and tower dumps and cloud info and so on and so on then making sure to communicate every last tip, piece of evidence, info, confusing story, potential lying witnesses. I do agree with the thought that it took an outside agency, ie; GBI to come in with fresh eyes, look at the info as a whole and start picking it apart and trying to make sense of it all. The April presser happens and Carter announces they are "just beginning".

The lead investegator at the start was Jerry Holeman, who had been promoted to First Sergeant and District Investigative Commander 9 months before the murders. He has a background in drug supression and no experience that I can find in homicide investigations. I can also find no media reports on homicides solved where it has been publicised that he was involved.

I don't understand how you can have a lead investigator on a double homicide with no background in the investigation of homicides. It honestly blows my mind.

Jerry Holeman Promoted to First Sergeant

 

[Spartygirl]

I believe that the individual in both sketches are the same person. The reason we are directed towards the younger guy sketch is because he changed his appearance and that is what he looked like after the crime. It may be as simple as he just removed all the bulky clothing or it could be a more dramatic change. They had that video early on and it just did not match the first sketch done so it was ignored. They hammered us with the old guy sketch. When they changed direction they had to stress to us to concentrate on the young guy's sketch. They had to get old guy out of the public's mind even though it is the same guy. I'm not so sure how well that worked though because it is still debated right and left. That guy on the video on the bridge had no good intentions towards these girls period. They have to be the same guy unless 2 or more bad guys were involved and I just don't think that is the case. If LE believed that why would they concentrate on young guy for the public to focus on and not both sketches. JMHO

I agree there were NOT 2 or More bad guys involved.

LE changed directions, and point blankly stated that at presser, as if speaking to BG directly-- "YOU never thought we would change directions, but we did. ( with latest posts that I am seeing in here, I can see where this could be possible, IMO)

LE also said that the younger Sketch #2 IS the same guy as on the bridge in Libby's video.

LE also said that BG could be a Combination of BOTH Sketches.

""The sketch isn’t a photograph. A sketch is a sketch and that’s really important for everybody to understand," Carter said.
"I believe that the individual when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.”

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders (wrtv.com)

 

[Spartygirl]

Same here! I will probably bawl like a baby when it's finally announced.

I KNOW I will be bawling like a baby, along with Popping open some bubbly to celebrate!!!!

 

[Spartygirl]

No, Facebook accounts don't go inactive. The only way to get rid of it/deactivate it is to have the password. Or possibly a death certificate.

Or LE shuts it down.

 

[Spartygirl]

That car seems to have risen to an almost mysterious and dramatic item. Mostly due to LE dropping that bomb on us in the April 2019 PC and then seemingly avoiding it ever since. I try to keep an open mind on it. Did the killer park it there? After all, it appears the driver has never been identified and neither has the killer. This leads to some speculation that the unidentified driver and unidentified killer are one and the same. Logic would almost seem to dictate, given the low volume of visitors to the area, that the odds of the two not being the same are not high. After all it appears this person has never come forward. (Or have they and LE just hasn't said?)

Why park there when there is closer parking to the trail? As a killer out hunting for his victim(s) it makes sense he doesn't want to be seen by others. OTH, if you WANT to look suspicious just park in an area away from the other users. Isn't that one reason LE is curious about this vehicle? Of course, there is another very innocent reason to park there. I'm sure there are those of you out there when you have a new car - still making payments on and paying outrageous insurance premiums on it - and park it at the far end of the grocery store, hardware store or pharmacy parking lot. To avoid having that person driving a 15-20 clunker (like me!) parking next the new car and risk a ding to the paint. If I was driving a brand new car you can bet I would have been parking at the abandoned CPS building.

Why hasn't the vehicle been followed up on to the public? Maybe LE found the driver and they had some detail to add. Or not. LE, by not addressing it again, plays a mind game with the killer. ("We know that this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know – that one day, you will.” ~ISP Superintendent Carter speaking to the killer at the April 2019 PC.) Maybe the driver is innocent and has not come forward and why not? They are not the most upstanding citizen - e.g., they have a warrant out on them or have a suspended drivers license. Or an even simpler reason - they don't follow the case and don't know LE is looking for them. After all, LE is not belaboring the point on this vehicle since the April 2019 PC.

There is an additional option. This vehicle is fictional. Such sighting doesn't exist. Made up by LE to mess with the killer's mind. (Does LE have a reliable witness that saw me? Or not.)

BBM-
Exactly !!!!
Why park THERE ???
If you park there, you have to either walk the little foot path to the beginning of FB, then onto the trail to MHB.
OR, you have to walk along the side of the road, to either beginning of FB and trails OR to the lot where girls dropped off OR to cemetary.

Either way-- you are OUT IN THE OPEN.

 

[Spartygirl]

Hypothetically speaking, if the witness was actually the criminal. Happens all the time. They're spotted at the crime scene and LE thinks they are a witness, and the perp plays along.

THIS ^^^^

or, just adding, they are covering for someone else.

 

[Spartygirl]

Four + years we're all trying to fit someone being there instead of focusing on who was actually there, cause it couldn't possibly be the nice guy right?! IMO

Exactly !!!
We have been thinking that they may have POI/Suspect but cannot place him AT the bridge AT that time or day.

BUT,
if we look at who was there, and LE knows who most of them are and they have been questioned, I hope, THEN, work out from there.

Start with all the ones that were there that day, that time frame, etc.

Doesn't mean it is a slam dunk, which I honestly thought it would be at the very beginning, AND as we are all aware, after 4+ yrs it is not as there has not been an arrest or even a suspect named yet.

 

[Spartygirl]

Forget the sketches. LE has muddled them both up so badly they mean nothing. Who knows if even they ever meant anything.
July 2017 sketch was from multiple people who saw this guy on the trails that day including a woman who came forward belatedly who supposedly got a real good look at him. The guy wore a hat, but not like the one in the sketch. He did not have blue eyes. This sketch was put out on thousands of flyers nationwide.
April 2019 sketch was made approx three days after the murders from someone who came to police to “report something they felt needed reporting”. No idea what that was. LE at the time said the 2017 sketch was now secondary...whatever that means. Later LE deemed 2019 sketch as the killer and who they were looking for, saying forget the 2017 sketch. LE over the next few months, tried to explain the sketches suggesting we should sorta kinda think of maybe perhaps they were both a little bit possibly correct. As LE sank farther into this swamp, for me at least, their credibility and the sketches’ merit completely disappeared.
More important I think than the sketches LE released at the April 2019 presser was the two second video. If you look at it frame by frame it becomes pretty apparent that BG is much younger and much thinner than the middle aged or older pot bellied guy we were led to believe he was. The question then is why LE allowed the public for two years to believe that.


Edit: typo

AMEN Sister !!!!

Focus on the video photo from Libby's phone.
LE stated that is BG !!!

LE also stated that sketches are NOT photos, LE muddied the waters by using 2 different sketches.

BG could be a combination of the 2 sketches, but BG is photo of guy ON THE BRIDGE !!!

 

[minazoe]

delphi is in indiana not california

omigod sorry this post went into the wrong thread!

 

[minazoe]

honestly I just take the two sketches to mean he may look older with facial hair, and may at times wear a hat. but, he can also look clean shaven and younger..they know the suspect has two looks..at least that's how I take it. mOO

 

[infinit]

Exactly !!!
We have been thinking that they may have POI/Suspect but cannot place him AT the bridge AT that time or day.

BUT,
if we look at who was there, and LE knows who most of them are and they have been questioned, I hope, THEN, work out from there.

Start with all the ones that were there that day, that time frame, etc.

Doesn't mean it is a slam dunk, which I honestly thought it would be at the very beginning, AND as we are all aware, after 4+ yrs it is not as there has not been an arrest or even a suspect named yet.

It's pretty standard stuff though to look into the backgrounds and stories of those claiming to be witnesses. It will already have been done and probably double done at this point.

Even if they ask to re-interview and manage to trip them up on details, the witness will have the valid excuse of the length of time that has passed and the weakening of memories. All they need to say is "Well, my original statement was at the time so I trust that more."

 

[Spartygirl]

Post of the year!!
And you are correct, why after two years did LE change the sketch? They didn't get a clearer picture, that had already been done as best as it was gonna get. A new witness didn't come forward or there would have been arrest.
Carter said "the new sketch is the result of new information and intelligence". What if, (speculating) that intelligence was someone's phone pinging there when they said they had left? Maybe something like this was what he meant by changing direction of the investigation, ie; new information. Someone is lying.

Carter was very emotional at that presser. IMO it was because they had realized from the new information and intelligence they were misled not only with the first sketch but alibis, timelines etc..which changed everything. When Carter said he "may be in this room", IMO it was to remind people not all killers look or act like killers.

So then the question begs who would mislead? Someone who would totally be able to corroborate because they were there to know the 5 W's, yet disagree politely enough.
Tobe said someone could have been interviewed as a witness instead of a POI.
"The Sheriff speculated that a perpetrator has probably been interviewed by investigators about the crime, but was not immediately recognized as a offender.
"We are still evaluating and looking at various pieces of all facets whether it be statements from witnesses to physical evidence." Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet

IMO they were talking to, exactly how Carter said it, ..."directly to the killer" "you want to know what we know" indicates they talk to BG". BG has asked questions.

Carter said that he "believes that since the killer's image and voice were publicized, and they have not been able to identify a suspect, someone knows who he is but is keeping quiet because of "extreme fear." "Please, please, come forward and let us know what you know," Carter pleaded.

"There is obviously someone withholding information," added Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby. "It could very well be somewhere along the lines someone was even threatened not to reveal the identity of the killer."

They just need that one tip.
It is JMO but every article I read now this all makes sense.

BBM
YES!!!

Possibly feels threatened, OR could be guilty !!!

Plus Tobe said "I KNOW that voice" He has heard that voice before"
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION (websleuths.com)

 

[Spartygirl]

It's pretty standard stuff though to look into the backgrounds and stories of those claiming to be witnesses. It will already have been done and probably double done at this point.

Even if they ask to re-interview and manage to trip them up on details, the witness will have the valid excuse of the length of time that has passed and the weakening of memories. All they need to say is "Well, my original statement was at the time so I trust that more."

Which is probably, IMO , what instigated the "Change of direction" for the April 2019 presser

 

[StarryStarryNight]

This is an interesting technology which I'd be interested to see being applied to this case: Google AI Blog: High Fidelity Image Generation Using Diffusion Models

That’s very interesting.
My concern would be that the examples that they give are nowhere near as badly pixelated as the image of the bridge guy.

 

[Spartygirl]

omigod sorry this post went into the wrong thread!

Hehehehe
That's OK @minazoe

I loved the bobcat and lion reference, IMO LOL

Also--you didn't post it on MT with the intentions of posting in a PM (YIKES) as I have done. LMAO

 

[sunshineray]

omigod sorry this post went into the wrong thread!

Ohhh I hate when that happens

 

[BNA]

The first sketch we saw is now secondary.

The press conference made a big deal of the sketch that showed a younger looking individual.

I think the intent is that the public use the face depicted in that sketch as a starting point....and then age that face all the way up to the apparent age of the original face....keeping the younger face in mind during that progression.
..........
Did not have blue eyes cracks me up every time. Also did not have four legs, I would think.
........
Yeah, and I still cannot rule out the "nice" guy in my equation.....the nice guy that betrayed DC.

The changeling.

 

[infinit]

That’s very interesting.
My concern would be that the examples that they give are nowhere near as badly pixelated as the image of the bridge guy.

Yeah, I agree it would probably need some tweaking and the output would never be as good, but just anything on the actual facial features would be interesting.

The first sketch we saw is now secondary.

The press conference made a big deal of the sketch that showed a younger looking individual.

I think the intent is that the public use the face depicted in that sketch as a starting point....and then age that face all the way up to the apparent age of the original face....keeping the younger face in mind during that progression.
..........
Did not have blue eyes cracks me up every time. Also did not have four legs, I would think.
........
Yeah, and I still cannot rule out the "nice" guy in my equation.....the nice guy that betrayed DC.

The changeling.

It concerns me that they've come up with the sketch 2 years after the fact based on witness input. Memory is not fixed and it's been pretty well proven it degrades over time and memory accuracy gets worse.

The Neuroscience of Memory: Implications for the Courtroom

 

[Ekliptika]

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders (wrtv.com)

snipped by me.
A lot of statements coming from LE in this case to me seems to be hints of some kind. I am constantly analysing what they may mean, and at the same time worried that I read way to much into them.
LE has also Said something along the line that they wish they could tell all they know, as if all their weird statements will make sense to us, once they are able to share everything. That makes me Think that maybe they are hints.
I have heard this statement over and over again about “we are one tip away” with emphasis on “one”. I wonder if that means that they do know who BG is, but something or someone is preventing them from making the arrest, could be someone providing a false alibi.
LE has also stated that someone out there may be afraid to come forward. all of the above makes me wonder if they do know, who BG is, he is protected by someone providing an alibi, who is afraid to come forward, and by emphasising that the are “one” tip away, they are trying to speak to that person reasuring them that if they come forward and speak they have enough to arrest and convict BG for sure, so the person do not have to fear that what they know, will not be enough to arrest BG.

I Think the theory about one witness lying and derailing the investigation is very interesting. When reviewing all the weird statements from LE in that light, especially the 2019 presser, it all makes sense. I just keep reminding myself that this is one way of connecting the dots and get a meaningful picture, but that there are probably several ways to connect the dots and still get a meaningful picture.

 

[TL4S]

The below are just my initial thoughts on a witness being the actual suspect:

TL has said he knows the voice from the very beginning. If one of the witnesses was actually the man from the bridge video, I think TL (or any of the many other LE people involved) would be able to connect the voice to that witness.

Also, after seeing the bridge video, DG would have possibly noted a resemblance to clothing, etc. from people he'd talked to on the trail that day. Or remembered someone who was wet or muddy.

And I agree with the post above about the witnesses being checked and double checked (probably triple checked and so on). LE's most recent statements about the sketches have been more along the lines of not dismissing either sketch entirely, which does not sound like they think they were lied to by those who participated in either sketch. Jmo.