Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #137

[Thelastleg]

This is more of an observation than a question. The Gabby Petito ongoing case, is a media frenzy. There are reporters in the street at the invitation of neighbours. They neighbours are giving interviews. The witnesses are posting video's and Go Pro footage. People in restaurants are commenting on the couples demeanour while the couple having a meal. LE have shown their body cam video of when the couple were stopped and spoken to. There is so much information realised to the general public. I realise now there is a media lockdown, but way back at the beginning, the people who were at the Monan High Bridge that day are not posting their opinions on Social Media. Or maybe they are and I don't know where to look. Anyway, it puzzles me why one states way of dealing with a murder situation is so different from another.

 

[CADwrest]

This is more of an observation than a question. The Gabby Petito ongoing case, is a media frenzy. There are reporters in the street at the invitation of neighbours. They neighbours are giving interviews. The witnesses are posting video's and Go Pro footage. People in restaurants are commenting on the couples demeanour while the couple having a meal. LE have shown their body cam video of when the couple were stopped and spoken to. There is so much information realised to the general public. I realise now there is a media lockdown, but way back at the beginning, the people who were at the Monan High Bridge that day are not posting their opinions on Social Media. Or maybe they are and I don't know where to look. Anyway, it puzzles me why one states way of dealing with a murder situation is so different from another.

It’s two things, really.
One, the Petito case stayed a missing persons case for weeks. A lot more gets released by LE when they’re trying to locate someone, especially when they don’t even have a specific location in mind. They need lots of eyes and lots of interest. Here, though, the situation changed from an isolated search of a wooded area to a murder investigation in less than a day. If the girls had been missing for weeks and it was believed they’d been abducted or something (“Guys…in the car”), this case could have exploded like that too.
Two, the Petito case attracted interest from the beginning just because of how bizarre the whole situation was, which has only gotten stranger the longer it’s gone on. I think this case actually does garner more attention than many murder investigations though, because there’s an element of the unusual in it as well: Capturing the culprit on video and audio. But it doesn’t have quite the same level of strangeness to it.

 

[heartgoesout]

Florida has the Sunshine Law.

 

[MistyWaters]

This is more of an observation than a question. The Gabby Petito ongoing case, is a media frenzy. There are reporters in the street at the invitation of neighbours. They neighbours are giving interviews. The witnesses are posting video's and Go Pro footage. People in restaurants are commenting on the couples demeanour while the couple having a meal. LE have shown their body cam video of when the couple were stopped and spoken to. There is so much information realised to the general public. I realise now there is a media lockdown, but way back at the beginning, the people who were at the Monan High Bridge that day are not posting their opinions on Social Media. Or maybe they are and I don't know where to look. Anyway, it puzzles me why one states way of dealing with a murder situation is so different from another.

Speaking to the media about missing persons is quite different than going public regarding an unsolved murder. Best example is Ron Logan. His willingness to be interviewed led to him becoming public suspect #1 for a while.

Anyone who has the potential of becoming a trial witness - even in the absence of witnessing anything - will have been cautioned about posting their opinions on Social media.

 

[carbuff]

There's also the difference that Gabby was murdered in a very popular park at the height of tourist season, where thousands of people were taking photos and videos. There's simply more to work with.

Abby and Libby had a LOT of coverage when their case was new.

 

[TTF14]

This is more of an observation than a question. The Gabby Petito ongoing case, is a media frenzy. There are reporters in the street at the invitation of neighbours. They neighbours are giving interviews. The witnesses are posting video's and Go Pro footage. People in restaurants are commenting on the couples demeanour while the couple having a meal. LE have shown their body cam video of when the couple were stopped and spoken to. There is so much information realised to the general public. I realise now there is a media lockdown, but way back at the beginning, the people who were at the Monan High Bridge that day are not posting their opinions on Social Media. Or maybe they are and I don't know where to look. Anyway, it puzzles me why one states way of dealing with a murder situation is so different from another.

This is the 137th thread for Abby and Libby. This case got crazy attention in the beginning.

 

[heartgoesout]

Florida has the Sunshine Law.

Google Sunshine Law.
It's amazing the info Florida divulges.

 

[fritofeets]

"This is not what the sheriff or the commissioners or the county council want," Leazenby said.

huh?

Then why did they vote to move?

My best guess — ISP is finally taking a more active role in the investigation, perhaps against the wishes of Leazenby and CCS. Which can only be good news IMO.

 

[fritofeets]

Not to sound too idealistic or unrealistically optimistic, but I have been around investigations enough to recognize significant movement in a “cold case”.

Two of note have occurred this week alone:

1. Commissioners have approved funding to lease a brand new space dedicated solely to the Delphi investigation.

This includes a $600/mo rental fee, and at least $20k of funds for upgrades to the space — security systems, fortified steel doors, interview room setup, kitchen, etc — $15k which were made available immediately. The timeline is incredibly tight: investigators will be moved into the new space before the end of this month, and the space will hold 2-4 full-time investigators working on this case alone. That is a huge personnel increase from the TWO detectives currently working on this case within CCS, which acts as the lead agency.

Some posters on another website have suggested this move is meaningless, as the City of Delphi mayor requested back in June that the Delphi investigation vacate from the space they have been occupying within the city building. This is true. What is significant, however, is that this move is not a downgrade or indicative of a “winging down” of investigative efforts. On the contrary, Delphi is a city that has undergone significant economic downturn in recent years — vacant space is available everywhere, much of which is cheap and in close proximity to their current space within the Delphi building.

So, why the sudden increase of personnel, space and security dedicated to this space? Leazenby cites that the space will hold “local and state” investigators — there are currently no ISP detectives working this case in Delphi. Something changed in the last several weeks that has caused this investigation to disrupt its media blackout and announce a major increase of attention and investigative efforts. The mayor’s order to vacate seems more like a very convenient “reason” to give for the movement than any negative development.

2. Detective Kevin Hammond, one of the sheriff department’s only two investigators, announced his retirement yesterday.

Again, many posters in other forums have suggested that this is bad news for the investigation. I couldn’t disagree more. If we look at TL’s comments thus far on the move, specifically his mention of ISP investigators moving in and how “this isn’t what the commissioners or sheriff department wanted but it’s for the girls” (paraphrasing), I am inclined to believe that the sheriff department is taking a lesser role in the investigation to make way for a small, directed and more secure team consisting of state-level investigators and “other agencies” (i.e. A TASK FORCE).

As Carroll County has held onto the lead role in this case with an iron fist, I imagine this is a tough blow to TL and the county. It is never easy for an agency to take a backseat in an investigation that they have become emotionally invested in — it sucks and feels like failure. Having said that, I truly believe these things are GOOD news for the investigation. We are talking about two MAJOR and relevant announcements in a case that has had ZERO significant movement since April 2019.

Say what you will about it being a positive or negative sign — movement is movement. I am hopeful they have something significant and are preparing for an intense next few months.

 

[minazoe]

I am also of the belief that things are going down . things that will require a larger operation..a larger space..
it is well located perhaps?

so even if there was, say..a confession..because this would be a death penalty case in the State of Indiana, I would think a lot of resources would still be needed to make everything iron clad..they don't just stop investigating the case.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I am also of the belief that things are going down . things that will require a larger operation..a larger space..
it is well located perhaps?

so even if there was, say..a confession..because this would be a death penalty case in the State of Indiana, I would think a lot of resources would still be needed to make everything iron clad..they don't just stop investigating the case.

I agree with you.
I still believe that this case will be solved soon.
Soon as in - not another 4 and a half years.
It is , however, a relative term.
Soon could be 3 months, or another 2 years.
But, I am with Minazoe on this- they are dedicating a workspace in order to have all of the privacy , space and access to it so that they can get this ready for trial.

AMOO JMO MOO

 

[Thelastleg]

Not to sound too idealistic or unrealistically optimistic, but I have been around investigations enough to recognize significant movement in a “cold case”.

Two of note have occurred this week alone:

1. Commissioners have approved funding to lease a brand new space dedicated solely to the Delphi investigation.

This includes a $600/mo rental fee, and at least $20k of funds for upgrades to the space — security systems, fortified steel doors, interview room setup, kitchen, etc — $15k which were made available immediately. The timeline is incredibly tight: investigators will be moved into the new space before the end of this month, and the space will hold 2-4 full-time investigators working on this case alone. That is a huge personnel increase from the TWO detectives currently working on this case within CCS, which acts as the lead agency.

Some posters on another website have suggested this move is meaningless, as the City of Delphi mayor requested back in June that the Delphi investigation vacate from the space they have been occupying within the city building. This is true. What is significant, however, is that this move is not a downgrade or indicative of a “winging down” of investigative efforts. On the contrary, Delphi is a city that has undergone significant economic downturn in recent years — vacant space is available everywhere, much of which is cheap and in close proximity to their current space within the Delphi building.

So, why the sudden increase of personnel, space and security dedicated to this space? Leazenby cites that the space will hold “local and state” investigators — there are currently no ISP detectives working this case in Delphi. Something changed in the last several weeks that has caused this investigation to disrupt its media blackout and announce a major increase of attention and investigative efforts. The mayor’s order to vacate seems more like a very convenient “reason” to give for the movement than any negative development.

2. Detective Kevin Hammond, one of the sheriff department’s only two investigators, announced his retirement yesterday.

Again, many posters in other forums have suggested that this is bad news for the investigation. I couldn’t disagree more. If we look at TL’s comments thus far on the move, specifically his mention of ISP investigators moving in and how “this isn’t what the commissioners or sheriff department wanted but it’s for the girls” (paraphrasing), I am inclined to believe that the sheriff department is taking a lesser role in the investigation to make way for a small, directed and more secure team consisting of state-level investigators and “other agencies” (i.e. A TASK FORCE).

As Carroll County has held onto the lead role in this case with an iron fist, I imagine this is a tough blow to TL and the county. It is never easy for an agency to take a backseat in an investigation that they have become emotionally invested in — it sucks and feels like failure. Having said that, I truly believe these things are GOOD news for the investigation. We are talking about two MAJOR and relevant announcements in a case that has had ZERO significant movement since April 2019.

Say what you will about it being a positive or negative sign — movement is movement. I am hopeful they have something significant and are preparing for an intense next few months.

Great post. I had to read it 3 times. I really hope there's a breakthrough soon.

 

[Laughing]

This is more of an observation than a question. The Gabby Petito ongoing case, is a media frenzy. There are reporters in the street at the invitation of neighbours. They neighbours are giving interviews. The witnesses are posting video's and Go Pro footage. People in restaurants are commenting on the couples demeanour while the couple having a meal. LE have shown their body cam video of when the couple were stopped and spoken to. There is so much information realised to the general public. I realise now there is a media lockdown, but way back at the beginning, the people who were at the Monan High Bridge that day are not posting their opinions on Social Media. Or maybe they are and I don't know where to look. Anyway, it puzzles me why one states way of dealing with a murder situation is so different from another.

Agree that LE handles a Missing Person case differently than a murder -- and here we have the murder of two children. Those two children were not intentionally sharing their lives in multiple on-line platforms.

Also waaaay back at the beginning there were plenty of rumors -- and Websleuth's TOS excludes those.

You can probably still find posts about a hobby involving GPS activity on other forums. We have been involved in that hobby, I probably contributed information about that back in the day.

Our discussions are based in fact by design, we've discussed facts (and sometimes our feelings) for 137 threads.

2017 was also pre-pandemic. More people spend/invest/waste more time on-line today, a habit we developed while on lockdown, IMHO.

For Abby & Libby, our two roses:

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[evilwise]

Perhaps Chadwell has made some offer of info in exchange for leniency that they don't want to give him so they're intensifying their investigation into him.

 

[minazoe]

Perhaps Chadwell has made some offer of info in exchange for leniency that they don't want to give him so they're intensifying their investigation into him.

I like it..

 

[Thelastleg]

Agree that LE handles a Missing Person case differently than a murder -- and here we have the murder of two children. Those two children were not intentionally sharing their lives in multiple on-line platforms.

Also waaaay back at the beginning there were plenty of rumors -- and Websleuth's TOS excludes those.

You can probably still find posts about a hobby involving GPS activity on other forums. We have been involved in that hobby, I probably contributed information about that back in the day.

Our discussions are based in fact by design, we've discussed facts (and sometimes our feelings) for 137 threads.

2017 was also pre-pandemic. More people spend/invest/waste more time on-line today, a habit we developed while on lockdown, IMHO.

For Abby & Libby, our two roses:

View attachment 314773

jmho ymmv lrr

I'm with you on this. I cannot believe the behaviour of people who were at the suspects parents home chanting. The only thing missing were the burning torches. Also how much public knowledge is out there regarding the suspects past and speculation of places he might be. Surely this is something that could harm a trial, the reason LE in Abby and Libby's case say they are keeping things close to the vest. Anyway just an observation. Hope there is a breakthrough here and nothing jeopardizes a trial

 

[Charlot123]

OK, I haven't found this in a half-hour of web searching, so apologies if this is an old issue. (I did find a link to a FB page but the page was in Japanese.) I was looking at the still photo of BG and wondered: Is he wearing a wristwatch on his right wrist? Or am I seeing something else on that wrist and thinking it is a wristwatch?

I have worn a watch almost every day of my life since LBJ was president, and the only people I've known who wear a watch on their right wrists are left-handed.

Much as I see nothing on the photo, tbh, I assume that his handedness LE may know. However, because handedness is such a complicated thing, even indication that he is left-handed should not rule our right-handed people.

I have met many left-handed people who were, to a degree, ambidextrous. They’d use L hand for writing, and R for, for example, cutting meat. Some said that they were initially left-handed but attempts to retrain them left them ambidextrous, some just are.

 

[Charlot123]

This would be the 4th time the base for the Homicide Investigative Task Force has changed locations. I doubt the reason is due to an impending arrest because when charges are laid, the file is turned over to the Prosector. LEs emphasis is investigation and that role is concluded.

But if they need more space, perhaps they are increasing or expanding the investigative team?

“As the second year of this investigation commences on February 13th, the most visible change will be the base of operations. As many will recall, the investigation was originally headquartered above the Delphi City Hall and later moved to the REMC building on Franklin Street, in Delphi. Now, moving forward, the need for such a large dedicated area is not necessary and the investigative base of operations will be relocated back to the office space above city hall…”
Delphi Homicide Investigation Headquarters Moving Back to Delphi City Hall

I think they want:

1) more security, including Internet one
2) for the people around neither to see nor discuss what is going on. If they expand, it is not discussed, it a consultant visits them, it is not seen. MOO

 

[Zabble]

Much as I see nothing on the photo, tbh, I assume that his handedness LE may know. However, because handedness is such a complicated thing, even indication that he is left-handed should not rule our right-handed people.

I have met many left-handed people who were, to a degree, ambidextrous. They’d use L hand for writing, and R for, for example, cutting meat. Some said that they were initially left-handed but attempts to retrain them left them ambidextrous, some just are.

Very true. I'm left handed and wear my watch on my left hand (only recently discovered people usually wear it on the opposite hand). I also play sports (tennis, cricket, etc) using my right hand. Shooting and handling a knife I can do with both hands, although I think for shooting I'd probably be more likely to use my left hand and more likely to use my right hand handling a knife. Just goes to show how complicated it can be...

 

[racer308d]

Has anyone noticed the Monon High Bridge is temporarily closed? I assume it is for repairs, but after doing a quick search the only news articles I can find on repairs needed are from a month after the girls were murdered. Just wondering if anyone can confirm