Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #138

[Charlot123]

I wonder how they justified it to the county council?

This all leads me to think they have someone in mind and it's going to be a big deal when people find out who it is. Is their intent to keep it all secret until they are sure they have a solid case?

At this point in time, what with the hype of the case, anybody found guilty of the murders will be a big deal.

 

[WillieMac]

Or that the interval is approximate, or seasonal. I didn't realize the Moab women were on the 13th too.

I believe they were actually last seen on the 13th, reported missing on the 15th or 16th, and found deceased on the 18th. So they were likely killed on the 13th or 14th - possibly even a day or two later - (IMO) but I'm not sure they've reported a confirmed exact date on that one, have they?

 

[JnRyan]

Just my opinion, but the unsolved status of this case is a function of the recent LE trend of releasing absolutely nothing to the public. Nothing.
Everyone understands LE should keep somethings to themselves, to help verify confessions etc. And no one, at least not me, is interested in graphic details.
But releasing zero information that someone might recognize as their quirky neighbors manner, or that odd way their uncle ties knots, etc has fast forwarded this case to where it is today. Nowhere. Now, almost five years later, it might be too late for it to matter.
Personally, at this time, I believe Chadwell is the guy. Handed to LE by his own stupid behavior, not by any great police work. If he’s not the guy, I’m not sure it will ever be solved. Too many mistakes by LE.

I can understand certain aspects being withheld like cause or manner of death or details like how many times the victim was stabbed or shot. They need certain things retained that only the killer would know. Those are not really the types of things that the public can use to ID someone and call in a tip. But I can not understand when certain info - like a vehicle sighting at the time - being released two years later. Most of us can't recall vehicles seen a week or month later let alone 2 years. Those are the details that I would assume need to be released soon as possible while details are fresh on the minds of witnesses.

I can think of two possible causes. One is LE in Carroll County rarely have murders and when they did the killer was probably someone close to the victim so they zeroed in fairly quick. They'd never had anything like this in the memories of local LE. (Although, ISP and FBI were in fairly quick so I would have thought those investigators would not have had that mindset.) The second is that things like the video, audio, low number of trail users (potential suspects) led LE to believe they would have this guy fairly quick. I know I thought that same thing.

Then there is the sketch - or sketches. It takes months to release the first. Why? LE's confidence level in the sketch was low? Or out of an over abundance of caution? Over reliance on a grainy video and believing that it and not a sketch was going to work? Then 2 years later they change it to one drawn within a week of the murders. Part of that is the nature of the case - no one witnessed the murder or maybe not even leaving the general area of the murders. I do wonder if the sketch release could have been dealt with better.

Even the Chadwell issue, months after his arrest on another crime, seems to make me wonder. If Chadwell is someone they are not highly focused on right now shouldn't LE say so? They don't have to say he is cleared or even eliminated, but instead that they don't have a lot of interest in him currently. (They said something similar about one of the first POI's.) Does letting the Chadwell issue fester have a detrimental effect on the reporting of tips?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I can understand certain aspects being withheld like cause or manner of death or details like how many times the victim was stabbed or shot. They need certain things retained that only the killer would know. Those are not really the types of things that the public can use to ID someone and call in a tip. But I can not understand when certain info - like a vehicle sighting at the time - being released two years later. Most of us can't recall vehicles seen a week or month later let alone 2 years. Those are the details that I would assume need to be released soon as possible while details are fresh on the minds of witnesses.

I can think of two possible causes. One is LE in Carroll County rarely have murders and when they did the killer was probably someone close to the victim so they zeroed in fairly quick. They'd never had anything like this in the memories of local LE. (Although, ISP and FBI were in fairly quick so I would have thought those investigators would not have had that mindset.) The second is that things like the video, audio, low number of trail users (potential suspects) led LE to believe they would have this guy fairly quick. I know I thought that same thing.

Then there is the sketch - or sketches. It takes months to release the first. Why? LE's confidence level in the sketch was low? Or out of an over abundance of caution? Over reliance on a grainy video and believing that it and not a sketch was going to work? Then 2 years later they change it to one drawn within a week of the murders. Part of that is the nature of the case - no one witnessed the murder or maybe not even leaving the general area of the murders. I do wonder if the sketch release could have been dealt with better.

Even the Chadwell issue, months after his arrest on another crime, seems to make me wonder. If Chadwell is someone they are not highly focused on right now shouldn't LE say so? They don't have to say he is cleared or even eliminated, but instead that they don't have a lot of interest in him currently. (They said something similar about one of the first POI's.) Does letting the Chadwell issue fester have a detrimental effect on the reporting of tips?

I pretty much agree with everything you said here.

 

[minazoe]

I don't think it has a detrimental effect, my guess is that when they put JBC out there as a suspect , TIPS came pouring in.

 

[FromGermany1]

I can understand certain aspects being withheld like cause or manner of death or details like how many times the victim was stabbed or shot. They need certain things retained that only the killer would know. Those are not really the types of things that the public can use to ID someone and call in a tip. But I can not understand when certain info - like a vehicle sighting at the time - being released two years later. Most of us can't recall vehicles seen a week or month later let alone 2 years. Those are the details that I would assume need to be released soon as possible while details are fresh on the minds of witnesses.

I can think of two possible causes. One is LE in Carroll County rarely have murders and when they did the killer was probably someone close to the victim so they zeroed in fairly quick. They'd never had anything like this in the memories of local LE. (Although, ISP and FBI were in fairly quick so I would have thought those investigators would not have had that mindset.) The second is that things like the video, audio, low number of trail users (potential suspects) led LE to believe they would have this guy fairly quick. I know I thought that same thing.

Then there is the sketch - or sketches. It takes months to release the first. Why? LE's confidence level in the sketch was low? Or out of an over abundance of caution? Over reliance on a grainy video and believing that it and not a sketch was going to work? Then 2 years later they change it to one drawn within a week of the murders. Part of that is the nature of the case - no one witnessed the murder or maybe not even leaving the general area of the murders. I do wonder if the sketch release could have been dealt with better.

Even the Chadwell issue, months after his arrest on another crime, seems to make me wonder. If Chadwell is someone they are not highly focused on right now shouldn't LE say so? They don't have to say he is cleared or even eliminated, but instead that they don't have a lot of interest in him currently. (They said something similar about one of the first POI's.) Does letting the Chadwell issue fester have a detrimental effect on the reporting of tips?

I think, they LE/FBI have their tips and there are at least 50.000. IF JBC looks like the sketch #1 = OBG, they had his "picture" out since 2017. No need to tell us, he is a POI or not. Which tips should be new and important?

 

[minazoe]

well women who have known him, people who have known him, someone who saw hm in Delphi, someone who was molested, someone who saw him in evansdale etc...just seeing this guy could illicit a gazillion different scenario's...mOO

 

[LeeJay55]

Is it at all.possible no.DNA was.left on the girls?
This case has gone nowhere!
Nothing to match to.anyone!

 

[minazoe]

I guess Im not a pessimist..even though I know full well how wrong things can go.

 

[Charlot123]

I can understand certain aspects being withheld like cause or manner of death or details like how many times the victim was stabbed or shot. They need certain things retained that only the killer would know. Those are not really the types of things that the public can use to ID someone and call in a tip. But I can not understand when certain info - like a vehicle sighting at the time - being released two years later. Most of us can't recall vehicles seen a week or month later let alone 2 years. Those are the details that I would assume need to be released soon as possible while details are fresh on the minds of witnesses.

I can think of two possible causes. One is LE in Carroll County rarely have murders and when they did the killer was probably someone close to the victim so they zeroed in fairly quick. They'd never had anything like this in the memories of local LE. (Although, ISP and FBI were in fairly quick so I would have thought those investigators would not have had that mindset.) The second is that things like the video, audio, low number of trail users (potential suspects) led LE to believe they would have this guy fairly quick. I know I thought that same thing.

Then there is the sketch - or sketches. It takes months to release the first. Why? LE's confidence level in the sketch was low? Or out of an over abundance of caution? Over reliance on a grainy video and believing that it and not a sketch was going to work? Then 2 years later they change it to one drawn within a week of the murders. Part of that is the nature of the case - no one witnessed the murder or maybe not even leaving the general area of the murders. I do wonder if the sketch release could have been dealt with better.

Even the Chadwell issue, months after his arrest on another crime, seems to make me wonder. If Chadwell is someone they are not highly focused on right now shouldn't LE say so? They don't have to say he is cleared or even eliminated, but instead that they don't have a lot of interest in him currently. (They said something similar about one of the first POI's.) Does letting the Chadwell issue fester have a detrimental effect on the reporting of tips?

I think there is a huge difference between piquing the community, and engaging it.

ISP and all LE involved in the Delphi case have done everything to pique the interest of the community. The latest story, with Chadwell, amply demonstrates it.

What they need to do, to help solve the problem, is to engage the community.

I am in the camp believing that LE need to release more information, and present in in a better way, now.

 

[heartgoesout]

I can understand certain aspects being withheld like cause or manner of death or details like how many times the victim was stabbed or shot. They need certain things retained that only the killer would know. Those are not really the types of things that the public can use to ID someone and call in a tip. But I can not understand when certain info - like a vehicle sighting at the time - being released two years later. Most of us can't recall vehicles seen a week or month later let alone 2 years. Those are the details that I would assume need to be released soon as possible while details are fresh on the minds of witnesses.

I can think of two possible causes. One is LE in Carroll County rarely have murders and when they did the killer was probably someone close to the victim so they zeroed in fairly quick. They'd never had anything like this in the memories of local LE. (Although, ISP and FBI were in fairly quick so I would have thought those investigators would not have had that mindset.) The second is that things like the video, audio, low number of trail users (potential suspects) led LE to believe they would have this guy fairly quick. I know I thought that same thing.

Then there is the sketch - or sketches. It takes months to release the first. Why? LE's confidence level in the sketch was low? Or out of an over abundance of caution? Over reliance on a grainy video and believing that it and not a sketch was going to work? Then 2 years later they change it to one drawn within a week of the murders. Part of that is the nature of the case - no one witnessed the murder or maybe not even leaving the general area of the murders. I do wonder if the sketch release could have been dealt with better.

Even the Chadwell issue, months after his arrest on another crime, seems to make me wonder. If Chadwell is someone they are not highly focused on right now shouldn't LE say so? They don't have to say he is cleared or even eliminated, but instead that they don't have a lot of interest in him currently. (They said something similar about one of the first POI's.) Does letting the Chadwell issue fester have a detrimental effect on the reporting of tips?

LE has not asked the public for tips in quite some time. There was not a 4 year press conference appeal. The appeals stoped a long time ago. LE doesn't seem to worry about clearing any POI's over the years to not hinder tips. I think they don't write anyone off so a defense attorney can't say they zeroed in on one suspect and didn't vet anyone else properly. Age old tactic. They need to have interest in everyone equally.

 

[heartgoesout]

well women who have known him, people who have known him, someone who saw hm in Delphi, someone who was molested, someone who saw him in evansdale etc...just seeing this guy could illicit a gazillion different scenario's...mOO

With all the Facebook pages, youtube channels, reddit posts, forums, podcasts, etc... all with locals on them, and aggressive sleuths, there has not been a twinge of rumor/leaks any of this happening. (Which is a good thing.)

 

[FromGermany1]

What's crazy to think about is that if the two cases are related, the killer might strike every five years. Which would mean 2022 would be his next attempt.
I've thought before that it might take this guy making another attempt to get caught.

I believe, he is waiting for something spectacular to stage it. Beforehand he must study (stalk) his victims thoroughly, so it can take a while. On the other hand, he may be waiting, because he realizes, he's with his true identity on the FBI's radar already.

 

[LeeJay55]

They have no idea who did this!
They need evidence. I’m almost 100 percent sure they have no dna.
They need the murder weapon!
or someone to confess which won’t happen!
I think the girls saw something!

 

[AC4RD]

..., there has not been a twinge of rumor/leaks any of this happening. (Which is a good thing.)

Agree 100%! Setting aside the question of whether LE *should* release more information, (IMO and MOO) the fact that LE has managed to keep so tight a lid on information about the investigation is amazing. And I'm of the opinion (MOO!) that this tight control of information suggests that there IS some good evidence in the LE camp, and that's why everybody involved has been so cooperative about keeping things quiet. It may be frustrating to LE to have a good suspect(s) and have to keep waiting to develop a case, but they've done a great job of it IMO. Here's to a quick wrapup and a speedy arrest.

 

[AC4RD]

... LE doesn't seem to worry about clearing any POI's over the years to not hinder tips. I think they don't write anyone off so a defense attorney can't say they zeroed in on one suspect and didn't vet anyone else properly. ...

Another "agree 100%" on this one. And I do not know anything about it and this is IMOO: If LE says "John Doe is not a POI and has been cleared," then if they DO later find evidence that he was involved, the defense has a chance to say "My client was CLEARED but the police changed their minds later, to close the case!" No matter how untrue it may be, a jury would have to take the earlier "cleared" statement into account when deciding guilt. So "clearing" someone is a no-win situation for LE. Again, just my own uninformed guess and/or opinion only.

 

[minazoe]

I think a person who is in the midst of being prosecuted for a high profile attempted murder of a child would benefit from a statement of some kind regarding their interest in him for another massively huge high profile case . So it does matter. Have they polygraphed JBC? we know nothing of what all is going on. mOO

 

[JnRyan]

Is it at all.possible no.DNA was.left on the girls?
This case has gone nowhere!
Nothing to match to.anyone!

After ISP 1st Sgt Jerry Holeman and Sgt Kim Riley spent some time being coy about finding DNA it was finally admitted much later. However in the HLN special this last February, Carroll County Sheriff Leazenby stated in an interview they have DNA. But when they asked if it was the killer's he stated they didn't know.

So they apparently have DNA, but is it possible they don't have the killer's? Sounds like it. We don't know what weapon or method was used to kill the girls, but it is possible that if he used a gun he could have committed these murders without touch the girls. Regarding another weapon and method and he wore gloves without leaving his DNA, that's a question for someone with more experience in that area of forensics.

 

[JnRyan]

LE has not asked the public for tips in quite some time. There was not a 4 year press conference appeal. The appeals stoped a long time ago. LE doesn't seem to worry about clearing any POI's over the years to not hinder tips. I think they don't write anyone off so a defense attorney can't say they zeroed in on one suspect and didn't vet anyone else properly. Age old tactic. They need to have interest in everyone equally.

Yes, look at the first publicly announced person, DN, that came up. Months later, LE doesn't say he is cleared or even eliminated, just simply that they are not interested in him for the time being. In fact, I don't even remember if they didn't even call him a POI or suspect.

It's possible LE has already moved on from JBC weeks or months ago. But while I do wonder if impacts tips, I wonder if it is mind game with the actual killer if JBC is someone they really aren't interested in. IOW, the killer is sitting back wanting to know what LE knows.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I think there is a huge difference between piquing the community, and engaging it.

ISP and all LE involved in the Delphi case have done everything to pique the interest of the community. The latest story, with Chadwell, amply demonstrates it.

What they need to do, to help solve the problem, is to engage the community.

I am in the camp believing that LE need to release more information, and present in in a better way, now.

That could be the case if in fact they are still looking for the killer.
IMO , they know who it is- they are building a rock solid case.
I don't know if this will be ready before the end of the calendar year or if it will take a year or more.
For the past 2 months- I have felt that this case turned from "unsure" to "tying up loose ends."
It's hard to wait, but something is happening that we just cannot be privvy to at this time.

MOO JMO AMOO