Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #139

[electricuncalm]

I think you might be right. It's kind of strange to release this new information about Abby and Libby now, knowing it might overshadow the search for Tout while at the same time reissuing a Silver Alert. I searched to see if there's a thread for her on WS but could not find one.

"Tout is described as being a white female, 5’5″, 120 pounds, strawberry blonde hair, blue eyes, and has a nose piercing.

She was last seen Sunday, October 26, 2021 at 7 p.m. and believed to be in extreme danger."

Courtney Tout missing from Richmond, IN

I think you nailed something there too - that highlights the urgency of this release. Whether it’s related Touts’ disappearance or not, it was very important to get this information out - just in time for the 10/11 pm news anywhere in the state. And they definitely do run the very high chance of trampling that silver alert into oblivion.

 

[gregjrichards]

The sketches

Is it possible that sketch one issued in February 2017 represents the guy in the video Liberty took who most likely is the murderer and possibly who an eyewitness saw on that tragic day on or near the trail. And that the second sketch of the young guy released in April 2019 is of the model, whose photos were being used by the murderer to lure young teens like Abigail and Liberty, to meet up and/or send unlawful and underage photos and videos of a sexual nature online?

If sketch two is the photo of the model, who is innocent and whose photos were being used by the killer, I’m wondering how law enforcement came to find out about this photo and if and how they managed to link it to this Instagram account recently.

In April 2019 law enforcement stated this:

“In ISP’s attempt to clarify on Wednesday, Riley wrote that investigators’ initial belief that “a person in the age range of his 40s to 50s was a person of interest in this murder investigation.”

“Now, as the investigation has matured and past information has been reassessed,” ISP’s release said, “it is the belief of investigators with the Multi-Agency Task Force that the person depicted in the sketch released on April 22 more accurately represents the person wanted for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.”

The new sketch features what police called a man with “a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late-30s.”

Police still weren’t answering what led to the change in direction or why the new suspect’s sketch was held back for more than two years.

Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies

I’m wondering how law enforcement was able to create sketch 2 of the younger guy released in April 2019? From the statement made in the article above from April 2019 it appears that they believed the younger guy in sketch 2 represents the likeness of the actual man who committed the murders. They didn’t say at this press conference we are looking for information about this guy whose photos may have been used to lure Abigail and Liberty but he isn’t the guy who killed them.

I am very interested to know what everyone’s thoughts are about this new development and the sketch situation.

 

[k-mac]

It has always hit a nerve with me Libbys 'factory phone reset.'

Think there is a bit more to Libby having her grandmothers phone at the time.

And alot about that has been withheld from the public for investigative purposes.

Just my speculations.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

What I find VERY interesting here, is that the ISP haven’t said ‘If you are Anthony Shots, we want to talk to you. Please come forward and contact us.’ Why haven’t they said that??? I think it’s because they know he’s the murderer so he wouldn’t do so. Don’t forget they said during 2019 PC that they wanted the driver of the abandoned car at the CPS building to contact them, but not Anthony Shots. I hope this is the break they need to catch him.

 

[k-mac]

The sketches

Is it possible that sketch one issued in February 2017 represents the guy in the video Liberty took who most likely is the murderer and possibly who an eyewitness saw on that tragic day on or near the trail. And that the second sketch of the young guy released in April 2019 is of the model, whose photos were being used by the murderer to lure young teens like Abigail and Liberty, to meet up and/or send unlawful and underage photos and videos of a sexual nature online?

If sketch two is the photo of the model, who is innocent and whose photos were being used by the killer, I’m wondering how law enforcement came to find out about this photo and if and how they managed to link it to this Instagram account recently.

In April 2019 law enforcement stated this:

“In ISP’s attempt to clarify on Wednesday, Riley wrote that investigators’ initial belief that “a person in the age range of his 40s to 50s was a person of interest in this murder investigation.”

“Now, as the investigation has matured and past information has been reassessed,” ISP’s release said, “it is the belief of investigators with the Multi-Agency Task Force that the person depicted in the sketch released on April 22 more accurately represents the person wanted for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.”

The new sketch features what police called a man with “a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late-30s.”

Police still weren’t answering what led to the change in direction or why the new suspect’s sketch was held back for more than two years.

Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies

I’m wondering how law enforcement was able to create sketch 2 of the younger guy released in April 2019? From the statement made in the article above from April 2019 it appears that they believed the younger guy in sketch 2 represents the likeness of actual man who committed the murders. They didn’t say at this press conference we are looking for information about this guy whose photos may have been used to lure Abigail and Liberty but he isn’t the guy who killed them.

I am very interested to know what everyone’s thoughts are about this new development and the sketch situation.

oh my goodness greg....
the sketches.....
especially now...

A statement about the sketches need to be made from LE and clear it up.

They are not helpful.

moo

 

[Yemelyan]

It’s also interesting to me that it was the ISP that released this info and not the local Delphi / Carroll County law enforcement. Hasn’t information on this case historically only been released by local law enforcement?

The ISP officer who delivered the update in the video is retired ISP officer Kim Riley's direct replacement. The Lafayette post is the ISP jurisdiction that covers Delphi. So to me this is in keeping with how info in the case has typically been released.

 

[buggiegirl]

What I find VERY interesting here, is that the ISP haven’t said ‘If you are Anthony Shots, we want to talk to you. Please come forward and contact us.’ Why haven’t they said that??? I think it’s because they know he’s the murderer so he wouldn’t do so. Don’t forget they said during 2019 PC that they wanted the driver of the abandoned car at the CPS building to contact them, but not Anthony Shots. I hope this is the break they need to catch him.

lol I mean saying "Hey murderer, please contact us and tell us who you are" isn't the most effective tactic.

As for the younger sketch being of the model, unless they were flat out lying at the press conference where they said the younger sketch is the man in the video and the murderer. They are so unclear on everything, but that was very specific and they were adamant the sketch is of that person that was on the bridge.

 

[Kittybunny]

Wow! Some very interesting developments. Really really hoping that this is the break this case needs! However I'm cautioning myself not to be too impatient because even if this leads to something, it will probably still be a while before we even see an arrest.

I do think it's interesting that in the profile they list born in Alaska, raised in Indiana. I wonder if that is a leak and some truth about the actual person. I also do not think that they're a teenager, I'm going to guess mid 30s to early 40s.

Also like many of you, I wonder, why this information was not available early on in the case given that they had Libby's phone?

Regardless...praying that this pans out and brings us closer to justice for Abby and Libby!

 

[Zabble]

The ISP officer who delivered the update in the video is retired ISP officer Kim Riley's direct replacement. The Lafayette post is the ISP jurisdiction that covers Delphi. So to me this is in keeping with how info in the case has typically been released.

Okay thanks for clarifying!

 

[distracted]

The sketches

Is it possible that sketch one issued in February 2017 represents the guy in the video Liberty took who most likely is the murderer and possibly who an eyewitness saw on that tragic day on or near the trail. And that the second sketch of the young guy released in April 2019 is of the model, whose photos were being used by the murderer to lure young teens like Abigail and Liberty, to meet up and/or send unlawful and underage photos and videos of a sexual nature online?

If sketch two is the photo of the model, who is innocent and whose photos were being used by the killer, I’m wondering how law enforcement came to find out about this photo and if and how they managed to link it to this Instagram account recently.

In April 2019 law enforcement stated this:

“In ISP’s attempt to clarify on Wednesday, Riley wrote that investigators’ initial belief that “a person in the age range of his 40s to 50s was a person of interest in this murder investigation.”

“Now, as the investigation has matured and past information has been reassessed,” ISP’s release said, “it is the belief of investigators with the Multi-Agency Task Force that the person depicted in the sketch released on April 22 more accurately represents the person wanted for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.”

The new sketch features what police called a man with “a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late-30s.”

Police still weren’t answering what led to the change in direction or why the new suspect’s sketch was held back for more than two years.

Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies

I’m wondering how law enforcement was able to create sketch 2 of the younger guy released in April 2019? From the statement made in the article above from April 2019 it appears that they believed the younger guy in sketch 2 represents the likeness of the actual man who committed the murders. They didn’t say at this press conference we are looking for information about this guy whose photos may have been used to lure Abigail and Liberty but he isn’t the guy who killed them.

I am very interested to know what everyone’s thoughts are about this new development and the sketch situation.

My opinion is that the second sketch could be the person who created the anthony_shots account - NOT THE MODEL. And I capitalize it because I cannot imagine how the model feels about his likeness being stolen and linked to a murder investigation.

Also, I have never ruled out that there were two people involved. One cannot discount the possibility when LE has put out the video of BG, the first sketch and the sketch of a much younger person unless LE believe the younger person is, in fact, the person in the video we have named BG.

ETA: The second sketch doesn't resemble the model at all, IMO.

 

[InvisibleMe]

It has always hit a nerve with me Libbys 'factory phone reset.'

Think there is a bit more to Libby having her grandmothers phone at the time.

And alot about that has been withheld from the public for investigative purposes.

Just my speculations.

Yes!!!!! I agree!

 

[distracted]

I believe LE know who the person who posts as anthony_shots is in real life. And I think they are reaching out for confirmation.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

lol I mean saying "Hey murderer, please contact us and tell us who you are" isn't the most effective tactic.

As for the younger sketch being of the model, unless they were flat out lying at the press conference where they said the younger sketch is the man in the video and the murderer. They are so unclear on everything, but that was very specific and they were adamant the sketch is of that person that was on the bridge.

It’s the actual wording I find interesting. Why don’t they want him to come forward If he’s not their killer?

 

[stattlich1]

If LE doesn't know the person(s) responsible for creating this online profile I'd be surprised. I don't think for a second they are trying to find out 'who' it is.

And I also would wager this information was not known by LE early on, rather, was uncovered somewhat recently, in the past several months, as a result of ongoing investigation.

 

[ph!sh]

I'm really excited by this recent development and now believe LE knows so much more than they are letting on. For the first time in a while I'm feeling hopeful these girls will get justice! I pray anyone who might have spoken to the predator have the strength to come forward and share what they know.

It sounds like the girls were in contact with the fictitious profile at some point. Now I'm wondering how the perp would have gotten into contact with Abby and/or Libby... How were they targeted? I don't think the communication would have began on Snapchat... maybe they met on Kik?

 

[FrostedGlass]

While we're waiting, this is a link to a juvenile sextortion cybercrime case that I've been following for years. The crimes were committed against juveniles before, during and after the murder of Libby and Abby. The perpetrator was finally sentenced this year.

It illustrates just how difficult it is to solve a cybercrime case and the number of agencies involved but it also gives insight to the lengths a perpetrator will go to get what he wants. There were 375 victims. And the perp used many different aliases.

The perp lived in CA and his victims were in Plainfield, Indiana, not far from Delphi. Coincidentally, Doug Carter worked on the case. Why the perp chose that area, I have no idea. I also have no idea whether he worked alone.

Is there a link to Libby and Abby? I don't know but it's been on my radar. Learning that this case possibly started with a cybercrime and its proximity to Delphi prompted me to take another look at it.

Child Predator and Cyberterrorist, Buster Hernandez, aka "BrianKil," is Sentenced to 75 years in Federal Prison

Thank you for bringing this up.
The press conference regarding his arrest was held in Plainfield, Hendricks Co., Indiana. He picked his Plainfield victim because her cloud storage was hacked. From the beginning, Plainfield worked with ICAC (Internet Crimes Against Children). In the PC, Chief Krieger, Plainfield Police Dept said the following: "I just want to tell the people of Delphi that their case, too, will be solved with these gentlemen, their agencies behind them. You can see that they just don't ever give up." (26mm in the video included in the article below.)
Since then, I've been pretty much convinced that there was a cyber connection, even though it was never said. For anyone who thinks these crimes are easy to solve, they can educate themselves by reading here:
California man charged in Plainfield ‘Brian Kil’ cyber threats case says he used teen to ‘attack an entire town’ | Fox 59

 

[IceIce9]

MOO
I have never thought this was random
I always suspected they were targeted
I suspected that Abby was dressed to meet someone
I always thought the phone reset was too coincidental
And from the very first LE statement “parents, know what your children are doing” (paraphrased) I suspected social media was involved

This would fit all my suspicions. Excited about this development.

MOO

 

[data_nerd_2005]

Only my opinion.. but am I the only one who thinks that LE releasing the “anthony_shots” username and photos could be a sign of the case being cold on their end? It reminds me of the “ trace an object” forum on Reddit in which global FBI like agencies post images of items seen in illegal recorded acts with minors and have exhausted all leads in identifying them, so they ask for the public’s help. As a web scraper, I would think LE would have an upper hand in identifying the creator of the Anthony_shots profile before reaching out to the public about it.

 

[Deerrun]

If LE doesn't know the person(s) responsible for creating this online profile I'd be surprised. I don't think for a second they are trying to find out 'who' it is.

And I also would wager this information was not known by LE early on, rather, was uncovered somewhat recently, in the past several months, as a result of ongoing investigation.

I so agree with your post. Poi is already in jail for unrelated charges and they came across the alias in their investigation. I think they came across it somewhat recent as well.

 

[gregjrichards]

My opinion is that the second sketch could be the person who created the anthony_shots account - NOT THE MODEL. And I capitalize it because I cannot imagine how the model feels about his likeness being stolen and linked to a murder investigation.

Also, I have never ruled out that there were two people involved. One cannot discount the possibility when LE has put out the video of BG, the first sketch and the sketch of a much younger person unless LE believe the younger person is, in fact, the person in the video we have named BG.

ETA: The second sketch doesn't resemble the model at all, IMO.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the sketches I appreciate it. I was wondering if the girls had possibly shown a friend a photo of the MODEL (not linked to the case at all) they thought they were communicating with online, who they were possibly going to meet up with, and for some reason it came to the attention of law enforcement in 2019. And the April 2019 sketch was from the recollection of a photo of the MODEL a friend thought they has seen that Liberty had possibly shown them on her phone. Abbey’s Mum has confirmed she didn’t have her own phone.

It is a complex and perplexing case based on the limited information that is publicly known. There are so many questions we have about the sketches and the investigation but hopefully when an arrest happens we will start finding out some of the answers to them.

Hopefully a breakthrough has been made. I was dreading the fifth anniversary approaching with no news and another appeal for tips because we thought the case was very cold but thankfully it looks like it is not cold.