Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #141

[TL4S]

@TL4S At the beginning of this video, GH says he talked to one of the persons who saw the vehicle parked at the CPS building when he came to work at 8:45 am and it was still there when he left at 2:15. GH clarified that it was an older model car. This video is the one where he talks about the camera locations.

Thank you @FrostedGlass! I wasn't sure if this one was approved. I wonder why LE asked about the car from noon-5? I mean, I understand that's giving extra time on either side of the crime, but if they know the car might have been there since morning, why not include that information?

 

[Marlo56]

Thank you @FrostedGlass! I wasn't sure if this one was approved. I wonder why LE asked about the car from noon-5? I mean, I understand that's giving extra time on either side of the crime, but if they know the car might have been there since morning, why not include that information?

I've been trying to work this out too.

Joining that information (assuming, of course that the caller is correct and that it's the same car that LE asked for the driver of) with the quote from Riley I pasted on the previous page indicating that LE believe the killer got around town quickly, maybe he left and came back between the 8 AM sighting and the afternoon sighting. A reason for that may be planting things he'd need at the scene, eg a duffel bag with a change of clothes.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Thank you @FrostedGlass! I wasn't sure if this one was approved. I wonder why LE asked about the car from noon-5? I mean, I understand that's giving extra time on either side of the crime, but if they know the car might have been there since morning, why not include that information?

Since it was there at 8:45, one would think they might want to know if anyone saw it earlier, too.

 

[TL4S]

I've been trying to work this out too.

Joining that information (assuming, of course that the caller is correct and that it's the same car that LE asked for the driver of) with the quote from Riley I pasted on the previous page indicating that LE believe the killer got around town quickly, maybe he left and came back between the 8 AM sighting and the afternoon sighting. A reason for that may be planting things he'd need at the scene, eg a duffel bag with a change of clothes.

I kind of get the feeling that LE does not have any good footage of this car. The fact that it wasn't mentioned until 2019, imo, indicates it was a tip that brought it to LE's attention, in which case, they might not know the comings and goings of that car. Who knows, though! There were surveillance cameras in the area that might have captured a lot more than LE is letting on.

 

[TL4S]

Since it was there at 8:45, one would think they might want to know if anyone saw it earlier, too.

Right. Or even the day before.

 

[TL4S]

Thank you @FrostedGlass! I wasn't sure if this one was approved. I wonder why LE asked about the car from noon-5? I mean, I understand that's giving extra time on either side of the crime, but if they know the car might have been there since morning, why not include that information?

You know, if GH's guest is credible and we can assume the car was there from that morning to that afternoon, at the very least, then my question would be, why? What are some legitimate reasons that would bring anyone to that spot all day?

Is it a location people park when commuting with other drivers? Was someone fishing? Was the car stalled out?

 

[Marlo56]

Being spotted in the morning and again in the afternoon doesn't necessarily mean it was there the whole time.

 

[Megnut]

I've been trying to work this out too.

Joining that information (assuming, of course that the caller is correct and that it's the same car that LE asked for the driver of) with the quote from Riley I pasted on the previous page indicating that LE believe the killer got around town quickly, maybe he left and came back between the 8 AM sighting and the afternoon sighting. A reason for that may be planting things he'd need at the scene, eg a duffel bag with a change of clothes.

Great point.

Also, if catfishing was involved (just not necessarily of A and L directly), the timeline and targets might have been fluid. Other girls who were going to go but ultimately couldn't, for instance. Minors dependent on transportation, for another instance, dependent on the availability and schedule of drivers. He may have been prepared to strike much earlier, whoever showed up.

If BG and that vehicle remain associated, when interviewed, he may have provided a compelling explanation and been dismissed. Perhaps any images are sporadic and don't capture coming and going, just a static frame.

If he did leave and return, perhaps he appeared elsewhere and that gave the impression of a solid alibi. Someone who has to punch in and out for lunch for example, and knows how to slide out a side door. Couldn't have been me, I was at work. Clocked in at 8, clocked out at 5, clocked in and out for lunch at noon and noonthirty.

JMO

 

[TL4S]

Great point.

Also, if catfishing was involved (just not necessarily of A and L directly), the timeline and targets might have been fluid. Other girls who were going to go but ultimately couldn't, for instance. Minors dependent on transportation, for another instance, dependent on the availability and schedule of drivers. He may have been prepared to strike much earlier, whoever showed up.

If BG and that vehicle remain associated, when interviewed, he may have provided a compelling explanation and been dismissed. Perhaps any images are sporadic and don't capture coming and going, just a static frame.

If he did leave and return, perhaps he appeared elsewhere and that gave the impression of a solid alibi. Someone who has to punch in and out for lunch for example, and knows how to slide out a side door. Couldn't have been me, I was at work. Clocked in at 8, clocked out at 5, clocked in and out for lunch at noon and noonthirty.

JMO

I agree that the car might have some connection to an alibi. However, we have to remember that LE does not appear to know who is the user of that car. It was part of their ask.

So, admittedly, the paranoid side of me wonders, is LE wanting to confirm the "witness's" alibi?

 

[Jealoushe]

In regards to BG potentially commenting online places...Isreal keyes did. I could see that happening easily.

 

[AC4RD]

Or even out of fear from a financial loss. JMVHO. YMMV. M()()

Very good point, UA! "Gosh, that was Eddie in that video clip ... but if I turn him in, suddenly I'm left raising the children without help, and all on what I earn, with no second income!" That's a motive that's worth remembering, IMO.

BTW, I still haven't found that podcast, sorry. On those days I was in the car, in addition to the podcasts I had previously downloaded, I streamed some YT videos and listened to the audio as I drove. I'm afraid the comments I listed may have been in the videos, and my phone's browser history doesn't go back far enough to know what they were. I'll keep trying, sorry.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Very good point, UA! "Gosh, that was Eddie in that video clip ... but if I turn him in, suddenly I'm left raising the children without help, and all on what I earn, with no second income!" That's a motive that's worth remembering, IMO.

BTW, I still haven't found that podcast, sorry. On those days I was in the car, in addition to the podcasts I had previously downloaded, I streamed some YT videos and listened to the audio as I drove. I'm afraid the comments I listed may have been in the videos, and my phone's browser history doesn't go back far enough to know what they were. I'll keep trying, sorry.

You don’t have to keep trying. I understand.

 

[acutename]

In regards to BG potentially commenting online places...Isreal keyes did. I could see that happening easily.

never read that... what types of comments did he make?

 

[acutename]

never read that... what types of comments did he make?

OK... let me answer my own Q:

Did Israel post comments online?
Discussion in 'Israel Keyes' started by a5adams, Nov 30, 2016.

 

[Charlot123]

IMO, he is lenient with us, because he knows everything about the crime and knows, that we know next to nothing. He doesn't need fights at all.

In your scenario, he might be older, on the 40-ish end of the age spectrum.

 

[Charlot123]

not sure at all if A & L were killed by a serial killer but I did read up a bit more and that "hiding in plain sight" ... seems that at least some serial killers leave no clues for their families. There are a lot of articles but I remember reading this a long time ago:

We even asked Rader why he didn't target his wife? He looked shocked at the question. He said he didn't kill anyone he knew. His victims were just "objects.

But he did admit that his wife was terrified of BTK. He says he once reassured her by telling her to keep all the windows and doors locked. "I wasn't really worried," he told us, "since I knew I was the one doing the killing."


BTK: Out Of The Shadows - CBS News

CBS News - Breaking news, 24/7 live streaming news & top stories › news › btk-out-of-the-shad...


so if there is "an alibi," it might be pretty sincere from the person offering it

But BTK might have been operating under the well-known premise, the closer you are to the victim, the higher the chance of becoming the suspect.

I don’t believe that in his wife his wife was not an “object”; but a murdered wife would soon become a “clue”.

The “alibi” might be sincere, or, there is too much to lose for the person providing it. If it is a woman, she might also be somewhat jealous of the girls (after all, BG, in a perverse way, was attracted to them), and probably “rationalizes” the murders by the way they were dressed or behaved, etc.

 

[Charlot123]

Great point.

Also, if catfishing was involved (just not necessarily of A and L directly), the timeline and targets might have been fluid. Other girls who were going to go but ultimately couldn't, for instance. Minors dependent on transportation, for another instance, dependent on the availability and schedule of drivers. He may have been prepared to strike much earlier, whoever showed up.

If BG and that vehicle remain associated, when interviewed, he may have provided a compelling explanation and been dismissed. Perhaps any images are sporadic and don't capture coming and going, just a static frame.

If he did leave and return, perhaps he appeared elsewhere and that gave the impression of a solid alibi. Someone who has to punch in and out for lunch for example, and knows how to slide out a side door. Couldn't have been me, I was at work. Clocked in at 8, clocked out at 5, clocked in and out for lunch at noon and noonthirty.

JMO

And this brings up a point.

Even if I leave an hour in the midst of a busy day, to walk and eat, or, god forbid, to pick up something somewhere, I shall be hopelessly late.

DC said that BG was able to move around very fast. How do you understand it? Me - that unless someone was driving him around, or perhaps BG lived so close that he could easily incorporate double murder into his busy day, and none the wiser, that he was very organized with his time.

And this, I think, is what DC means. I already posted somewhere, no ADD for BG, no, he is very, very good with his timing. (Not everyone fantasizing about a murder would be). I am also starting to think, military background, because they teach time management and organization in the army/navy. What they don’t teach is decision flexibility (MOO) - the ability to rapidly change plans if there are cars at CPS building, or the owners of the house up the hill are at home. This is innate. My feeling is, the BG has this quality, to improvise, he might have become angry if a planned abduction failed, but he finished with the murders.

This, good time management and flexibility, rules out so many people. JMO.

Whatever he did at the CS, he didn’t leave LE any noose long enough to hang him; no DNA good enough to use against him. He planned well, and even if things went not according to the plan, he adjusted. And, whatever the CS looked like, signatures or not, there was nothing usable. Otherwise we won’t be here 5 years later discussing his clothes and gait.

It is such a rare character trait. Mentally, he is very organized. He might be agile, but in my heart of hearts, I don’t see him as an 18-year old. His timing is too good. A former military, an athlete, an artist.

P.S. from my observation, in a busy building, secretaries are the first to learn how to use side doors, and good secretaries have mental flexibility with planning, are organized and don’t leave stuff behind them.

 

[Charlot123]

OK... let me answer my own Q:

Did Israel post comments online?
Discussion in 'Israel Keyes' started by a5adams, Nov 30, 2016.

It would be very interesting to read his posts. Allegedly, he had high IQ. I wonder if it showed.

 

[FromGermany1]

In your scenario, he might be older, on the 40-ish end of the age spectrum.

Poi-wise it is rather nearing the end of 30 yo (12 months to go) in 2017. Old enough (now already 33 yo) and careful enough, when handling his fellow members. Convinced of himself anyway, when almost 5 years a free man after this evil double murder.

 

[Charlot123]

Maybe it is not related, maybe a copycat?

10 years later, Gilgo Beach serial killer remains elusive | PIX11

Scroll down; in the article, it mentions two women being killed in provocative poses, their left shoe missing.

Do you remember the shoe in driveway? Was it R or L?