Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #142

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  • #881
I don't know but I have a suspicion that he knew they were out there.I think he went out to intercept those two girls.If what was said is true about the level of violence,could indicate,rage,anger,emotion.Maybe those two girls did something or knew something about the suspect that angered him.I have a possible suspect but without more info I can't say but that's really the problem with this case is so little info from le but I understand they have to be careful for when it goes to trial.
 
  • #882
Produced for profit close to a newsworthy anniversary, that’s all IMO. They got a few new-ish pieces of info and characters, so they didn’t do too bad with this 5-year thing. I’m not being sarcastic, it really is baby steps and that’s NOTnothing. But I think we do have to remember that crime journalism and law enforcement are not one single entity in lock step. They have different goals, and with this type of journalism, ratings matter.
Edited for the NOT

I agree with all you have stated.
I just feel a little misled in believing that we would be allowed to see the video with little editing.(KAKs jail house interview)

On the flip side of that- it leads me to feel that the other 24 minutes holds information pertinent to the case. That could be a huge "green flag"...if that is even a thing!

AMOO MOO JMO

EBM to add clarity
 
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  • #883
A lot to digest and go over, and at the same time, just more of the same questions.

It sounds like if LE do have any DNA evidence, then its possibly compromised in some way. JMO they have some strong evidence in this case, but just nothing conclusive enough, and they need to be conclusive. You only get one shot at a trial, even for murder, and as hard as it is to sit here 5 years later wanting answers, I would rather have them gather everything they need to ensure justice is seen for Abby and Libby than try to move on an incomplete case. I would have liked to see some an LE representative at this, but am not surprised we didn't, given the tone of some earlier statements.

IMO the recording/s, whatever they consist of, are probably a mix of things LE does not want to release out of consideration for the girls and their families, maybe some things that they want to keep from the public to maintain the integrity of some element of the investigation, and probably mostly nothing useful. Not knowing, I just have to assume that what we've been given is the most useful bit that can be extracted and released. At least it is more useful than unknowns. I remain in awe that Libby managed to capture it, and still believe it to be potentially the most important clue for finding their killer - pandas, goats and 80's computers or not.

The sketches truly need to be clarified by LE, IMO. Maybe LE were pursuing multiple leads or theories, but at this point I cannot makes sense of the statements, merged images, and if anyone really did recognize BG from either sketch or some combination, are they going to be confident enough to call in a tip based on a sketch? I have always thought the older sketch is likely BG and the younger sketch is... the model used by the AS profile? Should I be looking for him, too, or the long lost half-brother of these two guys? It does seem important to know what faces they are asking us to look at, and for.
 
  • #884
So, thinking about what LE has said before, and Anna Williams says about the “one small thing” that could break this open:

What could be an example of a “small thing” that could crack the case? In other words, in other cases, what has been a “small thing” that suddenly happened or was discovered which made all the difference?

Thinking out loud, maybe a family member or friend of the suspect notices something isn’t right with someone, maybe for something else, not necessarily about Abby’s and Libby’s case and reports it. Or a man is arrested for DV, or something else, maybe even pulled over for something and LE thinks something is suspicious, and upon arrest for something else, say drugs or an outstanding warrant, a connection is somehow made.

What else? I suppose a “small thing” could unfold a number of ways.

I remember in Noelle Paquette’s case they found the suspect bc he sustained injuries and went to the hospital. If something like that happened here I would think they would have found him by now, assuming he went somewhere locally.

As we’ve discussed, and I’m not sure this would necessary be small, but if they have the killer’s DNA, maybe a new or old rape kit or DNA from another cold case could be tested and linked - as we know there are a lot of untested rape kits and evidence in cold cases which maybe haven’t been run lately when DNA technology is better is today than it was before.

Or as in Kara Nichol’s case, a family member comes forward.

What else, maybe someone who knows something gets arrested for something else and decides to snitch. That’s something common that happens, I think.

Maybe he commits another crime and this time gets caught and is linked. I’m not sure I would classify that as “small”.

If he had a gun, maybe ballistics makes a match.

Or a new entry into CODIS or AFIS provides a hit, again wouldn’t say this is small.

Or DNA technology improves and picks up someone that couldn’t be picked up before.

Or someone makes a new entry/application for familial DNA via ancestry.com or other genealogical site, and this produces a hit.

Or someone who hasn’t seen the BG video before finally recognizes him. I saw this recently in another case - a pedo was teaching English in China and after being on the run for years, a student saw his wanted poster on the FBI’s website.

Or maybe a fresh set of eyes on the case notices something previously overlooked. Or a current investigator goes back and notices something, and pursues a new avenue.

Or maybe someone who is a prior victim of sexual assault who was previously scared to come forward before finally comes forward. This could be someone either suspected by the victim to be BG, or perhaps completely unaware this is BG, if that victim is even following or knows about this case.

How else could this be solved, the options are infinite - maybe a guy moves out and the new tenants find something suspicious in the house or grounds.

Yeah infinite possibles I think, which I guess is a good thing.

Overall, I would say that based on Carter’s confidence (unless he is bluffing), I am optimistic. And maybe they really do know a lot, and just need that one last piece.

I’m thinking again they do not have a specific suspect in mind, but who knows.

One small thing could be:
-> the other half of a biz card that completes a name, a phone number, company name, address?
-> could be a match on a fingerprint / handprint?
-> could be part of a photo that is seen somewhere online and someone sends in the other half of it?
-> maybe it has to do with the signatures at the scene - something oddly specific to a particular person?
-> maybe a specific toy / doll / part that they need to find to match to the scene?
-> perhaps a contact lens was left at the scene by someone and they need to match that to someone?
-> Maybe something was missing from the scene and they'll know they have the right person if they find it?
-> maybe its part of the murder weapon (if there was one)
-> maybe its a trophy from the victim like a part of their clothes, lock of hair?

Who knows? Sure do hope LE knows what they need to seal this one!
 
  • #885
I agree with all you have stated.
I just feel a little misled in believing that we would be allowed to see the video with little editing.

On the flip side of that- it leads me to feel that the other 24 minutes holds information pertinent to the case. That could be a huge "green flag"...if that is even a thing!

AMOO MOO JMO
Yeah. I didn't expect KAK to get on TV and admit to much of anything, but the fact that he wanted to get on TV at all, as a known child predator, could potentially say a lot. What is he compensating for? It sort of looks the same as him wiping his digital device clean before handing it over to LE. Like he's got something to hide. I'm not saying he is the one who killed the girls, but after 5 years, LE is still looking into an account directly linked to him and they accused him of being the last person to communicate with L. LE isn't dismissing his connection, so neither am I. But obviously they know that connection better than we do...
 
  • #886
Ok... I have read that there was something mentioned during the HLN special last night about an edged weapon or something and heard that someone on the show was saying that DNA from the killer may have been degraded if it mixed with blood from the victims. So my question then is this -
We have heard LE say that searchers didn't immediately know what they had stumbled on when the girls were found. Wouldn't they have known it was a murder scene right away if the kids were covered in blood??
 
  • #887
Ok... I have read that there was something mentioned during the HLN special last night about an edged weapon or something and heard that someone on the show was saying that DNA from the killer may have been degraded if it mixed with blood from the victims. So my question then is this -
We have heard LE say that searchers didn't immediately know what they had stumbled on when the girls were found. Wouldn't they have known it was a murder scene right away if the kids were covered in blood??

That is certainly a valid question.
My wild guess is that it is referencing the point at which the search party located the girls across the creek. At that time, they probably could not see injuries . Just the 2 girls lying there.

AMOO MOO JMO
 
  • #888
Just another thought, "one small thing" in these sort of cases is often enough to tie one case to another. I don't see how Abby and Libby's killer could not have harmed others, before or since, who need justice too.
 
  • #889
edged weapon ?? knife , machete? sword? what else? weird..men in the country always have knives, they are just necessary. JBC has quite the knife on his Facebook.. yeah he posts pictures of knives and stuff like that..cause that's just how he rolls...psycho style...

also I notice that even though they have dismissed certain POI's LE did not mention JBC specifically or at all in the recent update. He says he knows a lot about him, even knows who he is..and they are just waiting?
waiting for what??? I agree with Starry..what is this lightning bolt of evidence we need? How can he know who he is? And this interview with KAK, what if the cops never told him he was the last person to talk to Libby..what if he just said that ? I don't know, but old affidavits, old interviews, no real usable information..what is the purpose?

mOO
 
  • #890
Just another thought, "one small thing" in these sort of cases is often enough to tie one case to another. I don't see how Abby and Libby's killer could not have harmed others, before or since, who need justice too.

yes to this, this is not a one time deal. mOO
 
  • #891
2:10 EST. Libby begins recording in 3 mins five years ago. :(

Holding on to: “Today may be the day”

 
  • #892
Yeah. I didn't expect KAK to get on TV and admit to much of anything, but the fact that he wanted to get on TV at all, as a known child predator, could potentially say a lot. What is he compensating for? It sort of looks the same as him wiping his digital device clean before handing it over to LE. Like he's got something to hide. I'm not saying he is the one who killed the girls, but after 5 years, LE is still looking into an account directly linked to him and they accused him of being the last person to communicate with L. LE isn't dismissing his connection, so neither am I. But obviously they know that connection better than we do...
I’m wondering if Libby was somehow communicating with KAK that fateful day while on the trails.

Could KAK have communicated that info to someone else or multiple other people? He is a predator. He’s in prison for a reason. He may not be directly involved but maybe on the periphery?

5 years and still nothing. I feel so bad for the families.

MOO
 
  • #893
BG was already there when they entered the trails or arrived at around the same time....
again I stress the fact that BG didnt think of the phone at all..if he somehow came thru the internet.. the first thing would be to get that phone
thats my logic
 
  • #894
it is strange to me how it could be helpful to them because, what new information would he be giving a freaking reporter that he would not have given police?!

Also the comments by Carter and the two sketches are totally muddying the water. It is completely contradictory to other things they have said.

A whole lot of human communication is actually entirely non-verbal, so he could have given a whole lot of new information to the reporter that he may not have given to police. EG: maybe his eye movements, head movements are different to how they expect them to be, or different and contradictory to how he has behaved during interviews with LE? Perhaps he's folded his arms, opened them up into an open posture (suggesting more openness in general), maybe his pulse quickens and is evident via the carotid in the neck? Maybe its as simple as he says no to something but nods yes. Follow link for a basic crash course in the points I'm discussing here!
https://www.theforensicteacher.com/Free_articles_files/NON_verbal.pdf
 
  • #895
BG was already there when they entered the trails or arrived at around the same time....
again I stress the fact that BG didnt think of the phone at all..if he somehow came thru the internet.. the first thing would be to get that phone
thats my logic
So, if I read this right, if he was catfishing Liberty specifically he would know that her phone would likely have history and to therefore take it to destroy it? Makes sense.
 
  • #896
I definitely picked up on some aspect of lying, also I noted his dismissal of his antics on line, he was just lonely and that's the only reason for what he is in prison for, just a lonely young man looking for love with 12-13-14 year old girls...yep just did it cause he was lonely.

here he is saying police told him he was the last communication...he said this in 2019 right? Im wondering if the
cops really told him that or if that was a slip...you know sociopaths make stuff up on the fly.

I can't help but feel that there is an intention behind releasing this small portion of the interview...mOO

mOO
 
  • #897
Didn't JM say around 5 minutes in her video? I can't remember for sure.

Does KAK's voice sound anything like DTH?
I thought it sounded similar, maybe a little younger (but perhaps he spoke more authoritarian and a tad aggressively).
Perhaps KAK revealed himself as the chap Libby was chatting to online somewhere on the trail, then the girls realised she'd been duped / catfished. She may have reacted angrily, rejected him and then they headed off to the bridge.
He could have stood seething and then headed off after them (once he checked nobody was coming).
He could be the guy, hopefully we'll find out soon enough.
 
  • #898
I definitely picked up on some aspect of lying, also I noted his dismissal of his antics on line, he was just lonely and that's the only reason for what he is in prison for, just a lonely young man looking for love with 12-13-14 year old girls...yep just did it cause he was lonely.

here he is saying police told him he was the last communication...he said this in 2019 right? Im wondering if the
cops really told him that or if that was a slip...you know sociopaths make stuff up on the fly.

I can't help but feel that there is an intention behind releasing this small portion of the interview...mOO

mOO
Gotta wonder if LE have placed an undercover in the prison with KAK. I'm hoping so. KAK may know more than he is willing to share, or perhaps more than he realizes he knows. He'd be an interesting guy to get to know (only in the sense that he may be the key to solving this case).
 
  • #899
I thought it sounded similar, maybe a little younger (but perhaps he spoke more authoritarian and a tad aggressively).
Perhaps KAK revealed himself as the chap Libby was chatting to online somewhere on the trail, then the girls realised she'd been duped / catfished. She may have reacted angrily, rejected him and then they headed off to the bridge.
He could have stood seething and then headed off after them (once he checked nobody was coming).
He could be the guy, hopefully we'll find out soon enough.

LE has said something to the effect of this was about power to the killer.
Power over whom? The victims alone? Or others associated with the victims in addition? Have to wonder if maybe someone related to the girls may have snubbed someone - maybe it was a sidelong glance in passing that someone gave the killer that he took the wrong way, or maybe he wanted revenge against someone for something. Again, I'm assuming the killer is a male, but it wouldn't shock me if the killer ended up a she.
 
  • #900
Thank you. That is nice of you to say. Since they say they investigate every tip, I imagine it was investigated and police moved on from it for whatever reason. I will do the same.
In one of the press conferences Carter says something about gaining the public's trust again. It's my understanding several unrelated arrests were made when people came to offer tips. Outstanding warrants etc. It deterred people from coming forward with tips.
 
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