Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #142

[Deleted member 229974]

MistyWaters, I respectfully disagree with you. I get a strong feeling that the things he said, after saying he wanted to directly address the killer who could be in the room, were said to BG about what he actually did to his victims. I think those things said weren't just generically religious nor for the public's benefit.

I've always felt there was a betrayal of sorts involved in some way between LE and the killer. It's the main reason I can't fully get on board with JBC. I think the killer involved himself within the investigative machine somehow and was trusted in some way.

I feel ISP Carter wasn't just making a religious statement. He was too vehement and direct. Those words to the killer weren't meant to comfort the public, they were meant to rile a monster. AJMO

Ugh, I just got chills reading that.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I think he was cleaning up. Making sure about not leaving evidence of himself. He probably didn't realize the girls were missed until DG and other family started calling Libby's phone. Maybe he was looking for it? Maybe he got spooked an was scared of being seen and hunkered down for some time, until the coast was clear in the direction his exit strategy?

If only the hounds were set loose.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

We all have done a lot of complaining about LE not releasing information in this case, but how they have presented the evidence is part of the problem.

…LE releases a still photo of BG but with little context, not even saying it is from Libby’s phone.
…LE releases an audio clip. It’s only three words long.
…Sketch of OBG is released followed by multiple stories on how it came about, and “don’t look at the hat”, etc
…LE asks for help finding a car by the CPS building again with zero context and two years after the murders.
…LE releases video of BG on the bridge. A mere two seconds worth.
…LE releases more audio. They add a word.
…Sketch of YBG is released followed by tortured corrections and explanations and changing stories on what to do with the old sketch, and multiple suggestions on how to properly take the new sketch. Other than a story of how the sketch is two years old, there is no context on why the sketches changed.
…LE releases information about anthony_shots profile. No context. We learn from a four year old affadavit what it might be about.

Is there any wonder we are confused? None of this is real evidence. A blurry two second video, a four word audio clip, those are the only things released by LE that could be close to evidence.
Most of what we have discussed here we have extrapolated out of thin air. Things we hear and read in other places are really not much better.

Add to that…No Amber Alert, No Search dogs, and LE left the area at midnight. IMO

 

[Boxer]

MistyWaters, I respectfully disagree with you. I get a strong feeling that the things he said, after saying he wanted to directly address the killer who could be in the room, were said to BG about what he actually did to his victims. I think those things said weren't just generically religious nor for the public's benefit.

I've always felt there was a betrayal of sorts involved in some way between LE and the killer. It's the main reason I can't fully get on board with JBC. I think the killer involved himself within the investigative machine somehow and was trusted in some way.

I feel ISP Carter wasn't just making a religious statement. He was too vehement and direct. Those words to the killer weren't meant to comfort the public, they were meant to rile a monster. AJMO

One thing though, MOO Carter always brings that extreme behavior to PCs, not just Delphi.

 

[carbuff]

It always amazes me that people can see anything clearly on the phone video...

 

[MistyWaters]

MistyWaters, I respectfully disagree with you. I get a strong feeling that the things he said, after saying he wanted to directly address the killer who could be in the room, were said to BG about what he actually did to his victims. I think those things said weren't just generically religious nor for the public's benefit.

I've always felt there was a betrayal of sorts involved in some way between LE and the killer. It's the main reason I can't fully get on board with JBC. I think the killer involved himself within the investigative machine somehow and was trusted in some way.

I feel ISP Carter wasn't just making a religious statement. He was too vehement and direct. Those words to the killer weren't meant to comfort the public, they were meant to rile a monster. AJMO

The killer knows what he did to the victims and he knows the bodies were discovered the next day. So why would DC need to address it to rile up the killer as the killer would know exactly what LE discovered. I think that phrase was to comfort the families, who appear to also have deep religious beliefs. I just don’t think it has to mean anything more than were left for dead and now they’re in - as they say, a better place - heaven. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

We all have done a lot of complaining about LE not releasing information in this case, but how they have presented the evidence is part of the problem.

…LE releases a still photo of BG but with little context, not even saying it is from Libby’s phone.
…LE releases an audio clip. It’s only three words long.
…Sketch of OBG is released followed by multiple stories on how it came about, and “don’t look at the hat”, etc
…LE asks for help finding a car by the CPS building again with zero context and two years after the murders.
…LE releases video of BG on the bridge. A mere two seconds worth.
…LE releases more audio. They add a word.
…Sketch of YBG is released followed by tortured corrections and explanations and changing stories on what to do with the old sketch, and multiple suggestions on how to properly take the new sketch. Other than a story of how the sketch is two years old, there is no context on why the sketches changed.
…LE releases information about anthony_shots profile. No context. We learn from a four year old affadavit what it might be about.

Is there any wonder we are confused? None of this is real evidence. A blurry two second video, a four word audio clip, those are the only things released by LE that could be close to evidence.
Most of what we have discussed here we have extrapolated out of thin air. Things we hear and read in other places are really not much better.

I agree, it's somewhat maddening. Then you can throw in the things LE have said like...

No on-going danger to the public, specific to the girls, not connected to girl's social media but make sure you know what your kids are doing, what they're up too. Well most kids are up to social media almost 24/7.

Then you have Sheriff Leazenby saying he knows heard that voice before...still gives me chills and makes me wonder why bother even saying something like that to a reporter. Again that would make me think killer is local and I should be more worried about the danger in the area.

The ISP Carter saying at the end of the Flora Fire PC when pressed about if all the Delphi family members have been cleared, most reluctantly (I mean the man almost winched) he says only the vast majority.

Again after the Delphi 2019 PC, ISP Carter says the killer could be a combination of the two extremely different sketches.

The firmer prosecutor Ives saying how complicated the murder scene was with many different signatures and such yet no other tidbits realized to garner tips. Even just one thing about that crime scene could help, maybe not but possibly it could.

Going on 5 years it's time something is done....unless they know or have their man but not enough evidence to put him at the scene...for murders.

I'm sure I've missed a few more. Those are the ones that jump to mind

 

[asyousay]

LE botched it - it’s nearly been 5 years and you knew after the first 6 months they didn’t have a clue.

The two sketches just confused the public as they were miles apart from each other. So many things were handled poorly.


I feel for both families who have unfortunately suffered the worse loses imaginable and justice hasn’t been forthcoming so they can not see justice for their daughters who showed bravery beyond their years.


Moo

 

[Megnut]

Just before the 29 minute mark at this February 22, 2017 press conference is the first time the 'down the hill' audio was released.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=watch_permalink&v=10154728963476130

It does sound quite different than the audio released on April 22, 2019

At around the 9 minute mark is the first time we hear the 'guys......down the hill' audio.

Quoted bbm.
Made me think that lots of things can effect the way a persons' voice changes over the years.

I have a family member who's voice later changed significantly after she was intubated during a surgery.

JMO

In that short clip of BG on the bridge, just as it cuts off, does he begin to raise his hand? Is that WHY LE truncated it there? It almost looks to me like his hand wasn't in his pocket, but behind him. Drawing a weapon? Because we have every reason to believe he was mere moments from speaking G...dth.

If the clip didn't stop there, if it kept rolling for us, what would the next 1 second reveal? I think his hand is coming up...

JMO

 

[sandy_80]

i dont think she kept the cam on when he came closer..the logic would be that she wants to hide the phone to keep it recording
I think the vid was taken from a reasonable distance ..so while there is more audio .. i doubt there is more video but who knows

 

[TheVisual]

Just before the 29 minute mark at this February 22, 2017 press conference is the first time the 'down the hill' audio was released.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=watch_permalink&v=10154728963476130

It does sound quite different than the audio released on April 22, 2019

At around the 9 minute mark is the first time we hear the 'guys......down the hill' audio.

Quoted bbm.
Made me think that lots of things can effect the way a persons' voice changes over the years.

I have a family member who's voice later changed significantly after she was intubated during a surgery.

JMO

The facebook video you posted does NOT have the ORIGINAL audio. You could barely decipher was was being said. But they have now cleaned it up and placed it into the press conference.

 

[Falcon500]

LE botched it - it’s nearly been 5 years and you knew after the first 6 months they didn’t have a clue.

The two sketches just confused the public as they were miles apart from each other. So many things were handled poorly.


I feel for both families who have unfortunately suffered the worse loses imaginable and justice hasn’t been forthcoming so they can not see justice for their daughters who showed bravery beyond their years.


Moo

When the police close a case with an arrest they were lucky. When a case goes five years without being closed the police botched it. Happens every time.

The criteria for an Amber Alert was not even close to being met. Even if it had been issued the girls would have been just as dead.

Dogs. Even if Lassie had been called to the scene the girls would have been just as dead.

The search did not end. There were still officers, firefighters
, and civilians out in those woods until dawn. It is a small police department. You can’t hold over everyone because if you do you won’t have anyone to work the day shift. The chief has to keep that in mind when managing his troops. Remember it was a mostly Delphi case until the bodies were found.

Believe it or not some cases were made to be solved while others were destined to stay unsolved. Five years ago I documented two cases from thirty some years ago. One was worked tirelessly for a month until a phone rang. On the other not squat was done for a month until tge right doorbell was rung.

Such is the nature of police work.




D

i

 

[Detective Willy]

I also wondered if LE narrowed down a suspect later in the investigation and he looks nothing like the 1st sketch so they released a 2nd sketch to look a lot like him to see if this jogs a persons memory and to "to fit" a prosecution later on?

 

[asyousay]

When the police close a case with an arrest they were lucky. When a case goes five years without being closed the police botched it. Happens every time.

The criteria for an Amber Alert was not even close to being met. Even if it had been issued the girls would have been just as dead.

Dogs. Even if Lassie had been called to the scene the girls would have been just as dead.

The search did not end. There were still officers, firefighters
, and civilians out in those woods until dawn. It is a small police department. You can’t hold over everyone because if you do you won’t have anyone to work the day shift. The chief has to keep that in mind when managing his troops. Remember it was a mostly Delphi case until the bodies were found.

Believe it or not some cases were made to be solved while others were destined to stay unsolved. Five years ago I documented two cases from thirty some years ago. One was worked tirelessly for a month until a phone rang. On the other not squat was done for a month until tge right doorbell was rung.

Such is the nature of police work.




D

i

Some of the things they botched like confusing the public with sound bites and multiple sketches where it looks like two completely different people.


You have two sketches were the age range looks to be 18-50 and then bridge man who looks heavy set and older. So how does confusing the public help when looking for this man?

 

[Lavender Moon]

I am very confused about the two sketches.

I also wondered if LE narrowed down a suspect later in the investigation and he looks nothing like the 1st sketch so they released a 2nd sketch to look a lot like him to see if this jogs a persons memory and to "to fit" a prosecution later on?

 

[iamnotagolem]

Some of the things they botched like confusing the public with sound bites and multiple sketches where it looks like two completely different people.


You have two sketches were the age range looks to be 18-50 and then bridge man who looks heavy set and older. So how does confusing the public help when looking for this man?

18-50 is quite the age range. And at first wasn’t the height estimate 5’6” then changed to include heights up to 5’10”.

So basically all we can really narrow it down to is assumed male.

 

[sunshineray]

In that short clip of BG on the bridge, just as it cuts off, does he begin to raise his hand? Is that WHY LE truncated it there? It almost looks to me like his hand wasn't in his pocket, but behind him. Drawing a weapon? Because we have every reason to believe he was mere moments from speaking G...dth.

If the clip didn't stop there, if it kept rolling for us, what would the next 1 second reveal? I think his hand is coming up...

JMO

Abby looks up at Libby, who is recording, and says "He's right behind me, isn't he?"

Abby hurries to where Libby is.

The girls are discussing which way to go. It appears they were talking about two ways to go but said it was hard to hear the audio.

Abby says "Is that a gun? He's got a gun."

BG says "Hey" (probably supposed to be "Guys")

Libby then says "Hmmm"

BG says "Down the hill" and then the sound of a gun cocking is heard

The above gun talk is at the 48:00 to 51:12 min mark. All this BBM info was given to AW by police and then AW gave that info to GH...whom we're allowed to site.

It's all just chilling.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hello, im a new poster here and recent follower of the thread, although i have a fairly good knowledge of the case.
Anyway.. i was wondering how often the theory of more perpetrators has been discussed, and why it might have been discredited?
Just speculating, it could help explain how A and L were coerced, and maybe even the two different sketches..

On a second note, i was wondering if there is a rumor masterpost, i know we're not to spread or link to rumors and such, but i have seen discussion of ie scarves and text messages before.
I heard SO many different things taken for "true" that i struggle to figure out what was fake and what "just might be real but probably not"

Thanks!

Hi Clawdia, and Welcome to WS and this discussion.

Speculation about more perpetrators is not based on known facts that have been provided via MSM and from LE. We know that LE is seeking 1 person, so speculation about others is not allowed unless there is some fact that could steer us in that direction.

As for a "rumor masterpost", there isn't one because rumors are not allowed for discussion at Websleuths. Websleuths is fact based. Rumors, social media 'comments' (i.e. scarves and texts) grow legs and get morphed into fact as time goes on. We are at Thread #142 and we can pretty much guarantee if rumors were allowed, we'd be at Thread #200 by now, not knowing anymore which is rumor and which is fact. They just create confusion and a great big mess for Moderators to deal with in trying to separate the wheat from the chaff.

If you have more questions about what is or is not allowed, please address them through private discussion with Mods or Admins, or simply Report on any old post to ask your question and a Moderator will get back to you as soon as possible.

Hope that helps

 

[sunshineray]

I also wondered if LE narrowed down a suspect later in the investigation and he looks nothing like the 1st sketch so they released a 2nd sketch to look a lot like him to see if this jogs a persons memory and to "to fit" a prosecution later on?

I've always thought the switch in the sketches MAY have had to do with the man arrested as part of a sting operation involving child solicitation and molestation on Jan 8, 2019 in Randolph County. That man, CE very much favored the OBG sketch, IMO.

Undercover detective uncovers child molester


On Jan 15, 2019 Sheriff Leazenby gave an interview with RadarOnline where he said,

"...they were hoping for a break in the case of Indiana teens Abigail Williams and Liberty German’s gruesome murders after they sent new evidence to the FBI headquarters in Quantico...Sheriff Leazenby told Radar that the “evidence” that was given to the FBI was not something that he could share but said he was hopeful there would be a break in the case."

Break In Indiana Teens' Murder: Cops Give More Evidence To FBI In Hunt For Killer

I think they thought he could be the one. Maybe he was even in and around that area near the time of the murders for people to remember him (Gotta say, his visage is pretty memorable).

I'm thinking its possible LE tested his DNA that January against the whatever partial sequence they had and it was sooo different in essence that they said, not our guy.

Whatever else they found out between the end of January 2019 to April 2019 was enough to seal it and change their focus to the earlier sketch. AJMO...just some thoughts.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I agree, it's somewhat maddening. Then you can throw in the things LE have said like...

No on-going danger to the public, specific to the girls, not connected to girl's social media but make sure you know what your kids are doing, what they're up too. Well most kids are up to social media almost 24/7.

Then you have Sheriff Leazenby saying he knows heard that voice before...still gives me chills and makes me wonder why bother even saying something like that to a reporter. Again that would make me think killer is local and I should be more worried about the danger in the area.

The ISP Carter saying at the end of the Flora Fire PC when pressed about if all the Delphi family members have been cleared, most reluctantly (I mean the man almost winched) he says only the vast majority.

Again after the Delphi 2019 PC, ISP Carter says the killer could be a combination of the two extremely different sketches.

The firmer prosecutor Ives saying how complicated the murder scene was with many different signatures and such yet no other tidbits realized to garner tips. Even just one thing about that crime scene could help, maybe not but possibly it could.

Going on 5 years it's time something is done....unless they know or have their man but not enough evidence to put him at the scene...for murders.

I'm sure I've missed a few more. Those are the ones that jump to mind

Bravo! But what the heck does “only the vast majority” mean? Has everyone in the family been cleared or not?