Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #143

[paraphrase]

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #26
Post #702 - someone else there talks about searchers having followed footprints as well but also didn't have the link. I'll find it eventually...... ugh.

<modsnip -not approved sources>

Delphi man shows CBS 4 the crime scene where searcher made the discovery of two missing teens’ bodies | WTTV CBS4Indy
The gruesome discovery was made on Ron Logan’s 40-acre lot by a neighbor who volunteered to help with the search.

 

[photographer4]

You might find a link to an youtube interview by GH with BP. I’m sorry I don’t have it but I do recall watching it. She describes the search and body discovery in detail and iirc she knew several people on the search team who for her own sake, prevented her from going to where the bodies were found.

,

Thanks that may be where I learned this.

 

[Prime8]

Agree.
Knowing that there are 43 seconds of video tells us nothing.
SHOW us the 43 seconds, or at least as much as you can, and maybe someone can actually identify him.
The HLN special just solidifies my thoughts that LE in this case has really messed this thing up, and continue to do it.
Let the public help you! Release some information! But they won’t. I think it’s turned into an ego thing for them.

Back to the girls filming BG, from the bits that we've been told, I'm thinking it's likely that during that video we have seen, they weren't specifically filming him, he just came into frame. If there was something better to show us of BG, I believe they would have already.

 

[Emsmith1987]

First timer here- I’ve been coming to this forum for years and decided today’s the day to actually get involved in the discussion. It has been so wonderful to see movement in this case; I truly believe that LEO are closing in on the person(s) that committed these horrific crimes. These girls deserve justice and their families and friends deserve closure.

<modsnip -sleuthing someone not named by LE as a suspect>

There’s also the possibility the anthony_shots account has multiple users beyond KAK that are involved in something bigger than we all know, like a CSAM ring. I truly believe this case is very active and with new developments , I have renewed hope that LE is close to making arrest(s)!

MOO

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

There’s also the possibility the anthony_shots account has multiple users beyond KAK that are involved in something bigger than we all know, like a CSAM ring. I truly believe this case is very active and with new developments , I have renewed hope that LE is close to making arrest(s)!

MOO

Respectfully snipped by me for focus.

I definitely think that there could’ve been multiple users beyond KAK. And that this is probably bigger than we all know. I say these things because of what Carter has said in various press conferences, interviews and what not: something along the lines of, he hopes that Abby and Libby would be proud of what they (LE, multiple agencies) are doing and have or even will accomplish. I’ve never really understood what he meant by this until after the whole KAK/AS topic came to light.
Of course this is just my two cents. And I have many thoughts, ideas, suspicions, speculations, etc. rolling around in my brain.

YMMV.

 

[archenemy toenail]

Right. They've said they were found by a neighbor who volunteered in the search (taken that from an earlier WS post in the first 24 or so threads as someone there posted a link to where they said that). I think Kelsi has said more about it including them finding the shoe, the deer and the cam and being found because people followed footsteps they noticed. THat is what I've been looking to verify for several hours now.

That sounds like the searchers may have inadvertently destroyed footprint evidence, unaware that a crime had been committed.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Y’all can we collectively get past the subjects of grammar, spelling and punctuation mistakes on this thread, for the sake of Abby and Libby?

I understand that you were trying to answer someone’s post but these comments have morphed into being offensive, and on the borderline of being condescending. All of which IMVHO are unnecessary.

Please try to remember what our main focus is, and spend less time criticizing each other.

 

[MistyWaters]

That sounds like the searchers may have inadvertently destroyed footprint evidence, unaware that a crime had been committed.

Hopefully not. Noticing footprints doesn’t necessarily mean searchers tromped all over them.

“Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.”
https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-new...-bodies-found-as-missing-carroll-county-teens

 

[Charlot123]

It is interesting to watch DC. Covid has been hard on all of us. I also feel the level of burnout under which ISP has been operating.
Whether they are right or wrong, it is difficult not to experience certain sympathy towards DC and his police.

 

[stattlich1]

“Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.”
https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-new...-bodies-found-as-missing-carroll-county-teens

This comment in and of itself is interesting. One killer, two victims, and "a set of footprints". One set?

Anyway, I stated early on, and believe it to be so even to this day.....the crime scene was contaminated. I suppose the argument could be made that the immediate area surrounding the girls' bodies was 'less' contaminated, however, we just don't know that. Early reports indicated hundreds of searchers out and about. Throughout the night. For 20 hours more or less.

I also believed early on, and still do, that there was a distinct possibility of two persons being involved in the murders, maybe more. Maybe one killer, but more persons involved.

I also believe the killer(s), or someone else involved, specifically contaminated the crime scene so as to destroy evidence, or possibly planted evidence, so as to confound investigators. At minimum, the killer was well versed in methods to avoid leaving traces of evidence at the crime scene.

 

[cuecard]

Amazing. The public just maybe - through that ONE tip - the key to solving this. Being clear and concise with the public is essential. This doesn't help.

Agreed 100%. The sketches have also been a complete disaster. We get the first sketch for nearly 18 months which is then made redundant, or so we are told. Sketch two then becomes the primary sketch. Then last week in an interview Carter says BG will probably be a blend of both sketches. It just doesn't help anyone and contributes more confusion imo.

 

[Charlot123]

“Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.”
https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-new...-bodies-found-as-missing-carroll-county-teens

This comment in and of itself is interesting. One killer, two victims, and "a set of footprints". One set?

Anyway, I stated early on, and believe it to be so even to this day.....the crime scene was contaminated. I suppose the argument could be made that the immediate area surrounding the girls' bodies was 'less' contaminated, however, we just don't know that. Early reports indicated hundreds of searchers out and about. Throughout the night. For 20 hours more or less.

I also believed early on, and still do, that there was a distinct possibility of two persons being involved in the murders, maybe more. Maybe one killer, but more persons involved.

I also believe the killer(s), or someone else involved, specifically contaminated the crime scene so as to destroy evidence, or possibly planted evidence, so as to confound investigators. At minimum, the killer was well versed in methods to avoid leaving traces of evidence at the crime scene.

Highlighted by me. It is my fear -that the killer (s) not only planted “some” evidence, but could have intentionally left someone’s hair. If so, it can not be used at all, neither to rule in, nor out.

 

[JnRyan]

Highlighted by me. It is my fear -that the killer (s) not only planted “some” evidence, but could have intentionally left someone’s hair. If so, it can not be used at all, neither to rule in, nor out.

Possible. What I believe is more likely is what might on the hoodie Abigail was wearing. It was Kelsie's and Kelsie loaned it to her to wear that day. As I understand it was something Kelsie kept in her car in case she might need it. If that is true, how long had it been in Kelsie's car? And where did Kelsie wear it and, if so, who did she come into contact with?

 

[TL4S]

Possible. What I believe is more likely is what might on the hoodie Abigail was wearing. It was Kelsie's and Kelsie loaned it to her to wear that day. As I understand it was something Kelsie kept in her car in case she might need it. If that is true, how long had it been in Kelsie's car? And where did Kelsie wear it and, if so, who did she come into contact with?

I have always wondered if LE has some hair evidence that they think belongs to the killer, because through both sketches the description of hair color remained the same: reddish-brown. I guess it's possible that all the witnesses, from both sketches, were in agreement about that detail, but I just feel it's more likely there was hair left at the scene. Jmo.

 

[AC4RD]

Back to the girls filming BG, from the bits that we've been told, I'm thinking it's likely that during that video we have seen, they weren't specifically filming him, he just came into frame. If there was something better to show us of BG, I believe they would have already.

Very respectfully disagree on "weren't specifically filming him." Just MHO but I don't think Libby was just shooting video and he walked into the scene; I think she probably started filming because there was a weird/creepy guy near them and she was uncomfortable about it. Just MHO.

I agree entirely on "if there were something better to show us of BG"--I think that must certainly be the case, because it would greatly increase the chance of positive identification.

 

[TL4S]

I'm kind of late to the game in regards to the 43 second video, but my thought, based on the reports of L and A discussing the guy on the bridge and where they could go, is that L did indeed start recording him purposefully. However, I doubt she wanted that fact to be obvious to BG at the time, so I think she probably captured A on the bridge with BG behind her in the background (the video we see), then likely put the phone down and just held it like it wasn't on, or put it in her pocket, whatever. So maybe there isn't much video evidence to see of BG, but the rest is of audio value. Jmo.

 

[photographer4]

Back to the girls filming BG, from the bits that we've been told, I'm thinking it's likely that during that video we have seen, they weren't specifically filming him, he just came into frame. If there was something better to show us of BG, I believe they would have already.

This is my theory as to why its unlikely he just happened to enter the frame: LE have told us that LG was a hero and it was amazing she had the presence of mind to begin filming. If this was happenstance, she wouldn't be hailed a hero. THat is 43 seconds of video. That's not a coincidence in my view. That's her being clever, and possibly making it *look* like she was only capturing Abby whilst collecting the suspect at the same time.

 

[AC4RD]

Y’all can we collectively get past the subjects of grammar, spelling and punctuation mistakes on this thread, for the sake of Abby and Libby?

Aspie, if you mean my message about how "they" doesn't necessarily indicate a plural number of subjects (as opposed to "he/she"), I apologize. I only wanted to note that the use of "them" by the person being interviewed wasn't a clue that there were more than one subject. Absolutely no offense or "correction" was intended, I promise!

 

[JnRyan]

I have always wondered if LE has some hair evidence that they think belongs to the killer, because through both sketches the description of hair color remained the same: reddish-brown. I guess it's possible that all the witnesses, from both sketches, were in agreement about that detail, but I just feel it's more likely there was hair left at the scene. Jmo.

Absolutely. The one thing that does bother me about the hair is the hat on the first sketch. The first sketch is compiled from more than one witness sighting and according ISP 1st Sgt Holeman in August 2017 it took some time to determine who all was at the trail and an agreement between the witnesses on what he looked like. Then when the sketch comes out they tell us don't focus on the hat. Don't focus on the hat??? I wonder if the killer that day didn't have a hat, but they drew one on the sketch because the witnesses couldn't agree on the hair. Maybe the color (reddish brown?) but that was it. The later sketch has no hat. LE sent out evidence again in 2018 for possible more trace evidence. I wonder what, if anything, new was uncovered before the April 2019 PC.

 

[TL4S]

Absolutely. The one thing that does bother me about the hair is the hat on the first sketch. The first sketch is compiled from more than one witness sighting and according ISP 1st Sgt Holeman in August 2017 it took some time to determine who all was at the trail and an agreement between the witnesses on what he looked like. Then when the sketch comes out they tell us don't focus on the hat. Don't focus on the hat??? I wonder if the killer that day didn't have a hat, but they drew one on the sketch because the witnesses couldn't agree on the hair. Maybe the color (reddish brown?) but that was it. The later sketch has no hat. LE sent out evidence again in 2018 for possible more trace evidence. I wonder what, if anything, new was uncovered before the April 2019 PC.

I thought I'd read somewhere, maybe the interview with the sketch artist, that the witnesses couldn't agree on the hat style.