Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #144

[FrostedGlass]

In the beginning, I could see a possible connection to the murders. Since Feb 2017 or August 2020 (interviews), I'm seeing less and less of a connection between KAK and the murders. We're going on years now and still no arrest. I suppose it might take a while for LE to make a connection and an arrest based on anthony_shots, but the longer it takes the less likely I see a connection. A red herring is looking more likely at this point.

For this moment in time, I'm giving your red herring considerable weight. Remembering the media blackout LE announced plus the $14,000+ isolated building they leased, IMO it's doubtful they would agree to the release of the interview if it could have any possible impact on the murder case.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

For this moment in time, I'm giving your red herring considerable weight. Remembering the media blackout LE announced plus the $14,000+ isolated building they leased, IMO it's doubtful they would agree to the release of the interview if it could have any possible impact on the murder case.

I figure either this is all old disproven information and LE is laughing heartily at all of us obsessing over these transcripts or any evidence in the transcripts is available in other ways so the transcripts aren’t vital to prosecuting the case.
The fact is, back in December, LE opened up this door. In December the anthony_shots profile was important enough to release to the public, and as we all know LE is pretty stingy with information. So I doubt it’s a red herring, but I think they have a lot of dots that still need connecting.

 

[Charlot123]

i’m referring to the suspect in custody not the killer per se we can’t know what we’re dealing with because that information has not been released

and in comparing Charles Luciano to this suspect is really comparing apples to oranges.

Child isn’t usually traded for money it’s usually traded between pedophiles for their own specific sexual interests

Because of the nature of it and the high likelihood of being apprehended commercially produced child isnt as prevalent or as lucrative as legal in the US, its usually produced by the offenders themselves and shared covertly in groups, mostly on line now.

And also stranger things have happened it’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility that the girls were either followed into the park by somebody or came across their killer by sheer chance, again we can’t know because law-enforcement has not released anything pertaining to the nature of their deaths

however the previous contact with up into the day of their death with a certain individual who agreed to meet them at the exact location where it occurred is an extremely strong coincidence and definitely needs to be fettered out completely

it is also possible that what we glean from the transcripts is also true, that they believe this individual may have been involved but not up to the point of murder in which someone else committed the actual murders , but he is aware.

Thank you. Interesting. So, digital pedophiles. I used to know real ones, and didn’t know them as such, but they worked according to a different principle - travel far away to places where rich tourists looking for kids were more or less commonplace, and whatever happened there, no one knew unless they themselves started boasting to other guys.

From the standpoint of what is happening to modern people, I have a question.

Let us take gamers as an example. At one point, there was a real community, D@D players, they’d get in person, form relationships.

Then, there were digital communities, around online games, with relationships that were often also online. Odd as it seemed to me, coming of a different generation, because in no way could I call these relationships partnerships, they exist. And they are communities.

Not to compare CSAM producers with any of other groups, but this digital aspect makes me wonder…can this be called a community? Does it have elements of a community? Or is it more of a “come who wants to be served?” principle?

You know why I ask. If whoever had access to A_S’s Dropbox was part of a “community” of pedophiles, then, one should look into that community to maybe find a potential SK masking as one. Because what drives a SK is very different. Or maybe, a pedophile person that Libby accidentally got across and turned to be a threat for him.

If this Dropbox was organized according to “you pay, you use” principle (and here I see analogy with an old bordello), then, it is not a community, just traffic. More an old-style “patrons” of a digital Dropbox. But still, there should be traces.

 

[Prime8]

For this moment in time, I'm giving your red herring considerable weight. Remembering the media blackout LE announced plus the $14,000+ isolated building they leased, IMO it's doubtful they would agree to the release of the interview if it could have any possible impact on the murder case.

To be fair, they didn't agree to the release of the transcript, they just didn't try to stop it (from what we can deduce). And we don't know why they didn't try to stop it, or what the chances were that they could have, if they tried.

 

[FrostedGlass]

To be fair, they didn't agree to the release of the transcript, they just didn't try to stop it (from what we can deduce). And we don't know why they didn't try to stop it, or what the chances were that they could have, if they tried.

Yes, well... we really don't know much of anything so one theory is as good as the next from my point of view. May we all live long enough to have our questions answered.

 

[calvinshobbes]

In the beginning, I could see a possible connection to the murders. Since Feb 2017 or August 2020 (interviews), I'm seeing less and less of a connection between KAK and the murders. We're going on years now and still no arrest. I suppose it might take a while for LE to make a connection and an arrest based on anthony_shots, but the longer it takes the less likely I see a connection. A red herring is looking more likely at this point.

a red herring is a clue or piece of information that is misleading or distracts from the main narrative or plot and is used in literature. IMO, the a-shot profile is not a red herring because LE has specifically asked people to provide information and interactions with that profile. It does not appear LE believes the a-shot/catfish angle is a red herring. It is most definitely an active investigative avenue. Police will always want to investigate the last people to have contact (digital or physically) with the victims.

 

[Ozoner]

a red herring is a clue or piece of information that is misleading or distracts from the main narrative or plot and is used in literature. IMO, the a-shot profile is not a red herring because LE has specifically asked people to provide information and interactions with that profile. It does not appear LE believes the a-shot/catfish angle is a red herring. It is most definitely an active investigative avenue. Police will always want to investigate the last people to have contact (digital or physically) with the victims.

It is true that the police appear to be actively investigating that angle and to believe that the account may be related to the murders. That doesn't mean that it is related, however. The police may exhaustively investigate that lead and ultimately fail to find any evidence connecting the account to the murders.

We may not be using the term red herring the way it was originally conceived, but language changes over time. The term red herring is now commonly used to refer to any lead that doesn't ultimately pan out.

 

[MistyWaters]

It is true that the police appear to be actively investigating that angle and to believe that the account may be related to the murders. That doesn't mean that it is related, however. The police may exhaustively investigate that lead and ultimately fail to find any evidence connecting the account to the murders.

We may not be using the term red herring the way it was originally conceived, but language changes over time. The term red herring is now commonly used to refer to any lead that doesn't ultimately pan out.

I’m thinking if police hadn’t appeared to be actively and publicly investigating an a_shots connection to the murders, if they had instead just stayed silent, imagine the finger pointing toward utter incompetence that would occur when it came out that KAK, the pedophile, was questioned about the Delphi murders when reporters got their hands on that Aug 2020 interview during the trial, but instead it was “leaked in error”. Or was that a preemptive happening?

But now more than five years on, as no one has been charged, any incriminating evidence gleaned from a cellphone, cell towers, dropbox, or online apps must’ve not panned out. If TK was believed to have been jointly involved in KAK’s pursuits involving CSAM by now I’d expect he would have been jointly charged along with his son.

As time passes I’m feeling LE’s current investigative path is on someone entirely different and all the chatter about KAK or his father just serves to prove what LE said earlier - the murder of Libby and Abby is not a cold case. JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

IMO, my “guess” has always been, as I’ve said before, that I don’t think the killer is necessarily very technically savvy, but could be savvy enough to participate in cp/csam. IMO, one wouldn’t necessarily have to be very, very tech savvy if all they had to do was download a certain program, browser, and click view or share. Yes, there is a lot of scrutiny as far as LE looking for this type of activity, but “birds of a feather” would share and probably help and advise each other what to do and not do to avoid being caught. There could be many ways think they could share files that would fall under LEs radar, because it happens all the time. I’m sure not all of these who participate in such activities are computer geniuses, jmo.

You are right, but perhaps the BG is. He is able to cover up, that he participated in A_shots or something like that. Maybe.

 

[Trebor5591]

From the beginning of this horror story, I have believed Valentine's Day was a trigger as you say.

IMO Valentines Day is simply a coincidence, and has nothing to do with the crime. MOO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Yes. So now we have both KAK and TK lying on FB about KAK's whereabouts for Feb. 2017. Other family and friends would know those are lies, so who are they trying to fool?

I had a moment during the MS interview with "Bart." I kind of felt like he was leaning towards LE thinking KAK was the killer, too. And then, as the podcasters explained how LE told KAK the toilet story, it was like the ball dropped. Suddenly, "Bart" switched gears and thought TK was the suspect, and that shocked the crap out of him (jmo). It was eerie, imo. Why are they looking so deeply into TK's past? Why use that story to get a reaction out of KAK? Why is Dad covering for a son who is not only involved in the largest CSAM ring investigation in IN state history, but also being questioned about the murder of two young girls? Why would TK have his son contact prostitutes in Vegas for them? Does he always have his son do all the legwork for his own ultimate pleasure? What other paths might that lead us down?

Sure, there could be other pervs in the mix, but there are two men, with likely direct links to a_shots, and therefore L, who live together and have access to KAK's phones, who share sexual interests, with "my daddy stuff" being thrown around like confetti, with magically disappearing and reappearing phones despite no knowledge that LE was coming for them, who both have Mondays off, who looked up the Galveston address, even though KAK already knew it, then went to Vegas together the day after ski mask peeper appeared, and who outright lie about everything related to Feb. 2017.

Does the daughter/sister live in the home? How old is she? I certainly hope she's safe; although, I can't imagine that type of environment being safe.

 

[rebelchild]

Does the daughter/sister live in the home? How old is she? I certainly hope she's safe; although, I can't imagine that type of environment being safe.

I'm pretty sure that is a half sister that lives with their mom.

 

[TL4S]

Does the daughter/sister live in the home? How old is she? I certainly hope she's safe; although, I can't imagine that type of environment being safe.

Thankfully, not anymore!

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I'm pretty sure that is a half sister that lives with their mom.

I hope she was never around KK or TK. How awful for her, the whole family really, that they have those 2 for relatives!

 

[Ozoner]

I hope she was never around KK or TK. How awful for her, the whole family really, that they have those 2 for relatives!

She was; she lived with them until TK and the mom were separated.
In an interview, she stated that one time TK told her to run into the woods because he was going to shoot at her with a BB gun. He shot her in the elbow, and she had to have the BB surgically removed. She lied to the hospital staff so that TK wouldn't get in trouble; she said that he was shooting at garbage cans and the BB ricocheted off.

 

[gitana1]

First, JMHO: "Where was (the phone) during the search?" Poppin' Fresh, the Felony Doughboy, hid it because he knew how incriminating it could be. A while back I told about the murder of a friend--the police overlooked a spent bullet from the murder weapon, underneath the bed my friend was murdered in. Didn't bother to look under the bed, murder committed during a burglary. :-( I don't know how long the police spent searching KAK's house the week after the murders but unless a team of a half-dozen cops spent a full day searching, that phone COULD have been hidden somewhere and missed. Then KAK said, "Oh, I found it!" because he knew the phone was an unresolved issue until found and studied.

But my big point was: "Wow, yes, I forgot that!" about TK's 2018 message: "My boy hasn't been home in two years!" Obviously a lie, and a clumsy one at that, and you're right; it stinks. TK probably wouldn't have bothered to lie if he had not been *covering up something*. Thus: TK was painfully aware that KAK's presence in the area in Feb 2017 was a big ol' red flag, and he lied to try to cover it up. He didn't do a very good job of it, either.

I said elsewhere: I'm still not saying KAK *is* the murderer. But the more I toss it around in my tiny little brain, the more reasons I find to think he very well COULD have been the murderer. As in (JMHO), clearly the most likely choice, given what I know about the case. Adding more people, planning, conspiracies, motives--you can make it more complicated but "KAK felt so inadequate that he wound up murdering two girls he had been catfishing (deliberately or during a rape attempt)" is the simplest explanation I see these days. Your reminder of TK's stupid lie adds weight to that. Again, JMHO.

I haven’t followed this case in a long, long time. Can someone give me a rundown on KAK and his dad?
What info we have about them. How do we know what their voices sound like. Where are they now.

I’m sure others have noticed the resemblance between BG and the dad. What’s the consensus on whether either is a viable suspect and why, either way?

 

[Boxer]

Is KAKs alibi that he ws in Las Vegas?

 

[ReadySet]

I'm not as knowledgable as some about the case, but since there is no other answer, I'll give a very basic answer, from memory. Hopefully this will prime the pump and others will weigh in with more accurate and complete answers for you.

KAK and/or his dad were involved in online catfishing/grooming/CSAM of young girls. They lived in Peru or Kokomo. Soon after the murders, LE found an association between an online profile involving KAK, and LG. They investigated and found CSAM. However, there was no arrest of KAK until 2020.

A youtube channel/blog called the Murder Page got ahold of an interview between KAK and LE, and published it. I have not read or listened to it, although many here have. LE grilled him and many believe his answers show he could be, or could know who BG is. Some believe his dad is BG.
Their voices are apparently available out there somewhere. KAK is in jail. The dad is, I guess, at the home.

I would say the simple majority here believe neither KAK nor his dad are BG, but that they know who is.

I haven’t followed this case in a long, long time. Can someone give me a rundown on KAK and his dad?
What info we have about them. How do we know what their voices sound like. Where are they now.

I’m sure others have noticed the resemblance between BG and the dad. What’s the consensus on whether either is a viable suspect and why, either way?

 

[Yemelyan]

Is KAKs alibi that he ws in Las Vegas?

I don't think the Vegas trip started until about seven or eight days after the murders.

From reading the transcript of the interview, it sounds like KAK's alibi for the 13th was that he spent most of the day at home and that he doesn't remember if he went anywhere in the afternoon, but if he did it was probably to his grandparents' house in Peru since that's where he went most afternoons. In the interview, police seem to challenge him on this statement, saying "you went near your grandparents' house but you did not go to their house." He then offers the possibility that he could have been at the house of his close friend, a drug dealer, instead. Never does he say, in this particular interview, that he has a specific memory of that afternoon that places him in a particular spot, only that these are places that he often or usually went. MOO based on the transcript.

 

[Skigirl]

I don't think the Vegas trip started until about seven or eight days after the murders.

From reading the transcript of the interview, it sounds like KAK's alibi for the 13th was that he spent most of the day at home and that he doesn't remember if he went anywhere in the afternoon, but if he did it was probably to his grandparents' house in Peru since that's where he went most afternoons. In the interview, police seem to challenge him on this statement, saying "you went near your grandparents' house but you did not go to their house." He then offers the possibility that he could have been at the house of his close friend, a drug dealer, instead. Never does he say, in this particular interview, that he has a specific memory of that afternoon that places him in a particular spot, only that these are places that he often or usually went. MOO based on the transcript.

I read that as covering his bases because he knew he'd been in the area, but didn't know how much LE knew, so he needed a preemptive excuse to be there without committing to anything in particular. For all he knew, there there was footage of him or his car from someplace he drove by, or someone who happened to get a photo, or there was something else that put him in the area.