Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #144

[Yemelyan]

SM tech is just not my thing. I don't know much about it. Did the grooming happen over SC? So even if KAK's and L's phones were void of that evidence, LE can still retrieve the SC exchanges? Is that correct?

At least part of it occurred on Instagram, according to KAK.

 

[Yemelyan]

If they use FBI/national police capabilities they could possibly retrieve deleted data that's way beyond the point of retrieval inside say iOS. It is possible but expensive and time consuming.

Agreed. I have observed two trials lately where state police used Cellebrite technology to physically extract and index data from phones and some deleted data (but not all, if I recall correctly) was able to be retrieved. Clearly digital forensic tools improved between the date of the murders in 2017 and by 2019/2020 and ISP had more powerful ways to retrieve data.

 

[TL4S]

At least part of it occurred on Instagram, according to KAK.

Thank you @Yemelyan, for your explanations. So, we know a_shots had a money account from which he sent L money, per the interview. Do we know what L had set up to receive that money?

 

[scapa]

Occam's Razor adapts to every possible reality... If you hear a flock of geese, you're not going to declare it a herd of horses. It's really just an algorithm, the product of which = most likely reality.

Nope. But as my med school anatomy instructor was fond of saying: "Most of the time when you hear hoofbeats you think horse, not zebra. But, of course, to the untrained ear, all hoofbeats sound like horses. You're here to learn what a zebra sounds like."

I feel like this case has gone from having no noise at all to a din of competing hoofbeats.

 

[Yemelyan]

Thank you @Yemelyan, for your explanations. So, we know a_shots had a money account from which he sent L money, per the interview. Do we know what L had set up to receive that money?

I don't think we know this yet. You can send money to "friends" through many platforms (for example, you can send money to someone you chat with on FB messenger) but the key is that they would need to enter a debit card or some method like that to transfer the money to, after you send it. However, maybe Libby had some method set up to receive money - she had a parent living in another state, so I could see how that might be a useful setup in some families? Who knows.

 

[Prime8]

Absolutely it’s possible.

I remember when the internet was new and people weren’t savvy enough to put passwords on their wifi.

It was a thing to do if you didn’t have internet at home. Drive around until you could connect.

In fact, that’s exactly what people did to access and hide yourself.

Be interesting to know if his phone connected automatically but since he reset his phone that info is lost.

Oh yeah, I remember stories about a guy in my town who was always outside the larger apartments looking at on people's wifi. That's actually a really great point and you could be on to something. My guess is if it's a small town where they may not lock their doors, they probably aren't "locking" their wifi either.

 

[Prime8]

If he was high on cocaine perhaps. Otherwise you’d expect nerves to drown out the desire to look at . IMO.

My guess is that it's not like job interview, I'm not sure that someone like this would be too nervous to look at , especially if that's what they do most of their day. I have no idea the mind of a criminal but I would imagine there could be an element of getting "pumped" to commit this type of crime.

 

[LeBlack]

But I’m wondering why she reset her phone when she wasn’t yet past her…struggling for word here and don’t feel comfortable with infatuation; maybe her victimization.
Unless it really did have tech problems or KAK/ashots told her to reset. Minor point, but just curious. Doesn’t take away from what you are saying about your original suspicion of catfish.

Is it possible she was sent a virus or something to purposely cause her phone to glitch?

 

[TL4S]

Oh yeah, I remember stories about a guy in my town who was always outside the larger apartments looking at on people's wifi. That's actually a really great point and you could be on to something. My guess is if it's a small town where they may not lock their doors, they probably aren't "locking" their wifi either.

Yeah, maybe KAK was sort of telling a half-truth in that interview. Maybe he really did go to his grandparents' house that day, but before he got there, he parked for awhile to get his fix.

 

[LeBlack]

so apparently the word has changed ...and the responsible podcasters claim on GH that they didnt get approval but rather NO RESPONSE from the prosecutor's office which they have interpreted as green light..
this would be for a document that has victims names all over
also not that barbara who started all of the kak drama is ignoring this completely

I'm glad it was released. LE said the community was not in danger. There was a masked man outside of a teenager's home a week after A+L were murdered. IDK how they can say the community is not in danger with this pedo ring in play.

 

[abams]

SM tech is just not my thing. I don't know much about it. Did the grooming happen over SC? So even if KAK's and L's phones were void of that evidence, LE can still retrieve the SC exchanges? Is that correct?

There are a number of sm platforms named in the KAK documents either connected to the a_shots persona or KAK's personal accounts. Kik, Insta, Skype, Snapchat, FB, MeetMe... iirc Snap and Instagram are both referenced in particular regarding this case in the transcript.

Agreed. I have observed two trials lately where state police used Cellebrite technology to physically extract and index data from phones and some deleted data (but not all, if I recall correctly) was able to be retrieved. Clearly digital forensic tools improved between the date of the murders in 2017 and by 2019/2020 and ISP had more powerful ways to retrieve data.

Cellebrite - I knew that sounded familiar when I saw it in the PC affidavit.

 

[iamnotagolem]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

This is honestly so infuriating. Two girls murdered after being catfished. Yet no public warning. If LE had said “this is possibly a cat fishing situation, please closely monitor your childrens SM use” then the masked offender could have been avoided.

How many girls, children, were victimized after these two incidents?

 

[Prime8]

I'm glad it was released. LE said the community was not in danger. There was a masked man outside of a teenager's home a week after A+L were murdered. IDK how they can say the community is not in danger with this pedo ring in play.

I understand why people are frustrated with this statement but unless there's a gunman randomly shooting people, LE never comes out with any other statement other than "the community is not in danger". Obviously, there's a murderer out there but the chances that they are going to immediately murder again in the same area are pretty slim. What are they going to say, "Yes, you are all in danger, everyone panic, shut the city down."?

 

[sunshineray]

It could be that the re-set is, in fact, just what it was claimed by family to be - her apps were starting to freeze up because her phone was full or files were corrupted. Now that we know how extensively she used it and how indiscriminate about who she talked to online, this seems possible (not blaming her, she is just a child). So she asked for family help in re-setting it and a relative helped her (as family said in interviews with GH and others) - it was not something she did in secret. Perhaps the re-set on her end was innocent but just seems otherwise in light of everything that happened after the re-set.

I've never had an iPhone. Would her convos and pictures be saved to the iCloud (is that what it's called?) Considering the interrogating officer said to KAK that through his fake anthony_shots account he made Libby fall in love with him, Libby would certainly have wanted to save every bit of their communications. She would have treasured all that very much.

 

[sunshineray]

Oh yeah, I remember stories about a guy in my town who was always outside the larger apartments looking at on people's wifi. That's actually a really great point and you could be on to something. My guess is if it's a small town where they may not lock their doors, they probably aren't "locking" their wifi either.

But don't all providers now set up internet at people's homes with a password for each customer to log onto internet?

 

[sunshineray]

I'm glad it was released. LE said the community was not in danger. There was a masked man outside of a teenager's home a week after A+L were murdered. IDK how they can say the community is not in danger with this pedo ring in play.

I sooooo agree! Now every parent can really get a wake-up to take stock of the online stuff. If sweet innocents like Libby and Abby can fall victim, others can too...even the ones knowingly exchanging images with virtual stangers need to be found out and protected. Hopefully during all this time and investigating these parents have been notified. I pray so.

 

[sunshineray]

I understand why people are frustrated with this statement but unless there's a gunman randomly shooting people, LE never comes out with any other statement other than "the community is not in danger". Obviously, there's a murderer out there but the chances that they are going to immediately murder again in the same area are pretty slim. What are they going to say, "Yes, you are all in danger, everyone panic, shut the city down."?

How about, "Monitor your children's online activity NOW!" JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

Yeah, maybe KAK was sort of telling a half-truth in that interview. Maybe he really did go to his grandparents' house that day, but before he got there, he parked for awhile to get his fix.

I don't think he went to the grandparents' that day. Because he says he doesn't know if he went (but IF he would have gone anywhere, it was there), and investigators said both "your phone doesn't line up with that" and "you went somewhere near your grandparents' house but you did not go to your grandparents' house." I know - they could be lying to get his reaction. But my sense is that he went somewhere else and they know it.

 

[sandy_80]

I'm glad it was released. LE said the community was not in danger. There was a masked man outside of a teenager's home a week after A+L were murdered. IDK how they can say the community is not in danger with this pedo ring in play.

is that a fact stated by le ? and is it related to our murder and how ?

 

[Prime8]

How about, "Monitor your children's online activity NOW!" JMO

I mean, didn't an FBI agent say just that after they searched KAKs house?