Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #144

[ApparentlyInDenial]

Bite marks are very rare in murder cases:

“he has only seen half a dozen bite marks in nearly 1,000 homicide investigations”

Forensic Dentists : They Take a Bite Out of Crime

James Chadwell (JC) left bite marks on his victim’s stomach, albeit by a dog but interesting nonetheless:

Does James Brian Chadwell II have connections to the unsolved Delphi murder case?

 

[FromGermany1]

This is a very interesting and important observation. Why did he reply with OMG what happened? It seems like an overreaction and very dramatic if someone had no idea if something good or bad may have happened to Liberty. I imagine the majority of people would reply No. What about Liberty? Not ‘OMG what happened’. Putting ‘OMG what happened’ gives me the impression that an individual suspects something dramatic and serious has happened to someone.

I’m not accusing him or anything to do with the girls murders I’m just discussing the response he gave to the question he was asked.

All the more remarkable, when he answered all the other questions so nonchalantly and unexited ....

 

[Tealgrove]

Bite on stomach would make a clear signature to me.

You betcha!

The interrogators brought up girls’ stomachs more than once. There’s a reason for that.

I’m going out on a limb to suggest that this may be one of the signatures that has been alluded to by LE.

 

[Tealgrove]

Bite marks are very rare in murder cases:

“he has only seen half a dozen bite marks in nearly 1,000 homicide investigations”

Forensic Dentists : They Take a Bite Out of Crime

James Chadwell (JC) left bite marks on his victim’s stomach, albeit by a dog but interesting nonetheless:

Does James Brian Chadwell II have connections to the unsolved Delphi murder case?

Ted Bundy was a biter.

An impression of his teeth was taken by a court order and was one piece of evidence that put Bundy at the scene of the Chi Omega murders.

One would think that if the murderer left bite marks then a decent source of DNA would be present.

From the transcript we know KAK gave a DNA sample. This tells me that LE does have DNA to test against.

I sense that the real target is TK for the murders. I also think that DNA in the familial form has somewhat connected the Kline’s but can’t pinpoint who. I think that’s why the full on press on KAK to crack but he didn’t.

Just some thoughts this morning.

MOO

 

[Yemelyan]

Bite marks are very rare in murder cases:

“he has only seen half a dozen bite marks in nearly 1,000 homicide investigations”

Forensic Dentists : They Take a Bite Out of Crime

James Chadwell (JC) left bite marks on his victim’s stomach, albeit by a dog but interesting nonetheless:

Does James Brian Chadwell II have connections to the unsolved Delphi murder case?

That link about Chadwell (which is only from a podcast, not MSM) states that she had bite marks but not the anatomical location. The affidavit of probable cause lists that victim's injuries and also does not say bite marks specifically on the stomach. Is there a different credible link that says where on her body she was bitten?

Bite mark analysis has been discredited as a forensic science: Bite-mark analysis can lead to false convictions, landmark research shows

There are two problems with it: 1. Human flesh is not like a dental mold, it does not record an exact impression of the dentition that left a bite. But even if if did, 2. Human dentition impressions are not unique enough to identify a person with a level of exact certainty (like a fingerprint does, or DNA).

You might be thinking, well, that's crazy...deceased individuals are identified by their teeth all the time! But those identifications are based on more than just the outer features of the teeth, they take into account inner structures as well features that would not show up in a bite impression.

The utility of bite marks for an investigation would be finding DNA-rich sources within the bite that could be used to create the offender's profile. As a potential signature it would be a useful but not totally conclusive piece of evidence in and of itself, IMO.

 

[raja]

If this is a catfish case, I am wondering why it ended up in murder. I do not know a lot about catfishing, is this something murderers (serial killers) use as a way to find victims to kill? Or is catfishing more used to SA the victim(s). Why did this end with 2 dead girls and within such a short timeframe? Why would you come prepared with weapons (if in fact BG did that)? To intimidate someone to SA them? Why to you catfish someone to meet you somewhere, what are your intentions? Anyone knows any good research on this topic? What is the criminal/psycological profile of people doing this?

It may not have started with murder in mind. He had 2 girls to control. One may have gotten away and had to be silenced so the other could not be left as a witness. If one was pushed off the bridge and died as an example.

 

[TL4S]

I keep thinking about the ski mask peeper from Monday, 2/20/17. Could L have given a_shots her address, too? Makes me wonder if the killer, who clearly has Monday afternoons free, actually started at Ls house and followed them to the trail/bridge.

Also, google, "ski mask with bill" and look at what comes up. I remember the sketch artist from the first sketch (older) describing how that sketch was produced from several witnesses, and that some said the hat wasn't quite right. Somewhere I heard it said it had a short bill. Well, maybe it was a ski mask folded up over the bill, like you'd wear it if you didn't have it down over your face.

Long ago, some folks on here mentioned it possibly being a balaclava. I didn't think much about it at the time, but this new info on the ski mask guy is making me backpedal.

*My off-the-deep-end thought for today: I'm kind of wondering if a_shots is the persona used to catch the girls, but ski mask intruder is the killer's re-enactment persona...especially if maybe he's on film for "sharing" later. Yuck...I'm sorry.

 

[minazoe]

its so funny because all this time I felt like they had been stalked for several days and this was no "chance" event..but a choreographed event...lo and behold! a ski mask stalker! knowing this, there can be so many different scenarios..

for instance..KAK is at his dealers place...some. dude named JBC comes by..they start talking about girls..boom..out comes the phone..boom...JBC watches KAK log in ..KAK lets him get on and chat with a 13 year old girl ...they are f'ing around...later JBC figures out he can log into this chat as A_shots..

KAK possibly thinks it's his dad logging in talking to Libby on the other phone.

KAK destroyed that other phone.

probably all these men are Anthony _Shots. So many possibilities. and yet which is the killer?

I can see KAK as a pretty skilled liar and a cool customer.

these people are the very bottom of the barrel. mOO

 

[minazoe]

adding..like the cop was saying he could have allowed JBC or anyone to "borrow the phone". in the bathroom or whatever ...literally use it for 15 minutes or whatever if you get my drift...

if he did that it would be easy to get in that phone and look up the addresses on google etc.

 

[FromGermany1]

That link about Chadwell (which is only from a podcast, not MSM) states that she had bite marks but not the anatomical location. The affidavit of probable cause lists that victim's injuries and also does not say bite marks specifically on the stomach. Is there a different credible link that says where on her body she was bitten?

Bite mark analysis has been discredited as a forensic science: Bite-mark analysis can lead to false convictions, landmark research shows

There are two problems with it: 1. Human flesh is not like a dental mold, it does not record an exact impression of the dentition that left a bite. But even if if did, 2. Human dentition impressions are not unique enough to identify a person with a level of exact certainty (like a fingerprint does, or DNA).

You might be thinking, well, that's crazy...deceased individuals are identified by their teeth all the time! But those identifications are based on more than just the outer features of the teeth, they take into account inner structures as well features that would not show up in a bite impression.

The utility of bite marks for an investigation would be finding DNA-rich sources within the bite that could be used to create the offender's profile. As a potential signature it would be a useful but not totally conclusive piece of evidence in and of itself, IMO.

NOT good.

 

[LeBlack]

I hadn’t thought of a signature like this. It’s possible but I imagine law enforcement would want a person of interest to bite into a dental mould and it would be possible forensically to compare the bite mark on victim’s remains with the shape of an individual’s teeth. The Medical Examiner would likely be able to give an estimate of how long a bite mark was present on a victim’s remains.

It would be challenging to protest and convince people of your innocence if your teeth matched the bite mark on a victim’s remains and the Medical Examiner said the bite could possibly have occurred approximately when the murders tragically happened. If they had this kind of very strong evidence which linked the bite mark to a known individual an arrest would likely have been made already. I don’t know how challenging it would be or not legally to obtain a mould of an individual’s teeth who wasn’t under arrest yet in Indiana.

I’m reading about the information that is being revealed from the podcast and the redacted evidence that has been posted and discussed here with interest. It is difficult to try and not get your hopes up that law enforcement is closing in on B.G and anyone else who may be linked to the murders. I really hope and pray for the girls and their loved ones that an arrest(s) will be made in the not too distant future. It will be very interesting to see what happens with the investigation in the upcoming months.

Excellent point. They took evidence (hair, dna, etc) from KAK, but he did NOT mention bite molds. Some people have bite marks that would be obvious without taking a mold, IMO. (I'm not allowed to talk about him)

 

[mpnola]

The stomach could have been "marked" another way, not a bite. Like using a knife to carve or something. I'm sorry about that imagery.

 

[Ekliptika]

*My off-the-deep-end thought for today: I'm kind of wondering if a_shots is the persona used to catch the girls, but ski mask intruder is the killer's re-enactment persona...especially if maybe he's on film for "sharing" later. Yuck...I'm sorry.

reading this reminded me of the German suspect for the Madeleine Mccan murder (body not found but the German LE claims that they have evidence that she is dead). He allegedly filmed some of his SAs wearing a disguise. Speculations in the MM thread of this forum that the evidence LE has is a photo or movie. This is so horrible to Think about. With what has come out lately for the Delphi case I Can see why you are thinking in this direction.

 

[Yemelyan]

adding..like the cop was saying he could have allowed JBC or anyone to "borrow the phone". in the bathroom or whatever ...literally use it for 15 minutes or whatever if you get my drift...

if he did that it would be easy to get in that phone and look up the addresses on google etc.

I think this was the opposite of what the detectives were saying in the interview, though. KAK kept trying to list times when someone could have used or borrowed his phone for just a brief period of time and detectives were saying no, this is multiple logins, from your residence, multiple devices, over many hours and in fact over days and months.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think this was the opposite of what the detectives were saying in the interview, though. KAK kept trying to list times when someone could have used or borrowed his phone for just a brief period of time and detectives were saying no, this is multiple logins, from your residence, multiple devices, over many hours and in fact over days and months.

That’s the impression I got too. LE is adept at throwing out opportunity amidst KAK’s denials and foggy memory but the minute KAK is about to agree with the possibility of involvement by another they draw him back to reality with the evidence that totally refutes it. One or two sentences possibly implicating someone else in this interview cannot just be taken in total isolation IMO.

 

[mainemom376]

It may not have started with murder in mind. He had 2 girls to control. One may have gotten away and had to be silenced so the other could not be left as a witness. If one was pushed off the bridge and died as an example.

I never once thought of that. Pushed off the bridge. OMG. And perhaps the “down the hill” command was directing the one who was not pushed, down to where the other had fallen??? Never occurred to me as a possibility, but is not out of the realm. JMO

 

[TL4S]

I never once thought of that. Pushed off the bridge. OMG. And perhaps the “down the hill” command was directing the one who was not pushed, down to where the other had fallen??? Never occurred to me as a possibility, but is not out of the realm. JMO

This idea is brought up from time to time, but we have L's BG video, LE's comments about a crime about to occur during that time, the family saying the girls were talking about where else they could go, etc. Imo, there is just too much data placing both girls already off the south end of the bridge when BG approached.

 

[minazoe]

pushing one of the girls off the bridge is a quick and efficient way of eliminating the two hostage problem..however I think if he was coming straight towards her on the end of the bridge she would have moved quickly to land to avoid having him pass her on the trestles...not to say he couldn't drag her back a short way and push her.

He would have had to then move her body to the place where LE says they were killed, the place they were found. He has a window of time..this shortens it considerably don't you think?

mOO

 

[Yemelyan]

This idea is brought up from time to time, but we have L's BG video, LE's comments about a crime about to occur during that time, the family saying the girls were talking about where else they could go, etc. Imo, there is just too much data putting both girls off the south end of the bridge when BG approached.

Plus the Carroll County Comet interview where a reader asked if they were moved after death and Leazenby says they were killed where they were found.

 

[Kpossible44]

On Page 74 of the redacted doc, the detective questions KK about a young African American girl aged 4-7 that showed up in one of KK’s videos. Timelines that were referenced in their discussion were March, 2016 and November, 2016. Makes me wonder if there is a connection to the Flora fire tragedy.