Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #144

[Hambone1480]

I mean he really didn't have to be a genius..if he somehow got the password for the shots account he could log in..but I feel like there were no log ins from outside...so I think they concluded it's someone within a very small circle that have access to the house or the places KAK would go like his dealer's house.they seem to want to pin down all the places KAK was and where those phones were.
Is it more than one person ? or is it just one person? a person who says he doesn't leave his house?

then they turn around a year later and say they are closely looking at JBC.

so for me it's that third party they are trying to identify...but the evidence has been tampered with
phones wiped clean...reset on Libby's phone and one of them not even collected for weeks or months..

Im so torn, except the investigation thus far leads me to think they are looking for that other person.

potentially let's say KAK shows his content around to folks at his dealer or barber, whatever and some guy asks can he use the phone? He could maybe get into saved passwords , whatever..he could stick his head out the bathroom door and be like " dude , it timed out , I need the PW "

could be that easy, the cops know it..and the only reason KAK doesn't give it up is that he is up to his eyeballs in it and will be charged..

added: He 100 percent knows about it and knows about arrangements to meet.
he is a nonchalant liar and talks in circles... he tampered with evidence and up until
they grabbed JBC, I think KAK was all along the biggest piece of the puzzle they had.

mOO

Have you guys considered the possibility of a hacker-type getting into somebody's phone remotely? There are plenty of spyware apps that offer this service, and there are people who can and will use this stuff to monitor the phones of others.
I know it seems like a small possibility, but I've recently considered the potential of a pedophile monitoring another known pedophile's phone to view communications and media (pics, vids) with the targeted children. This would allow a person to stay out of the crosshairs of LE while being able to see what is going on with the communications between another adult and minor. They could stay out of the crosshairs of LE because many of these spyware apps can stay hidden quite well and can disguise themselves as something innocent on a phone. It would be hard to find the remote user of the spyware and even identify the spyware on the phone.
I just have been thinking about this because it has seemed to be that there is somebody else out there that knew about these communications between Liberty and KAK. Despite this, LE cannot figure out who else knew about these communications. The inability to nail down a perp has me thinking about this.
Just a thought that is outside of the box.

 

[margarita25]

Wow, finally was able to listen to the latest MS podcast.

So TK had a dirt bike. Interesting. Of course a lot of people have dirt bikes. We don’t know that a dirt bike had anything to do with this crime, just following up on above post.

 

[Ekliptika]

The importance of the car also ties into why police now believe the killer is local. Riley said after reviewing many tips, investigators determined he was able to get around quickly on the day the girls were killed, and seemed to know the area.

ISP on Delphi killer: 'Somebody may have already interviewed him'

snipped by me for focus.
Wonder if the “able to get around quickly” is related to LE did infact recover a conversation between a_shots account and the girls about meeting that day at the bridge? Meaning that BG had to be close by if he was able to Meet the girls with short notice that afternoon. And this is also what makes them sure that he is local.

 

[Ekliptika]

FWIW, I am an expert in cognition/perception and have published studies involving face perception, which is why I made the comment about being pretty confident that video still is KAK.

snipped by me for focus.
That’s interesting and not something I am familiar with. Would it be possible for you to elaborate a bit and also how that ties into you feeling confident that the video still is KAK?
Thank you

 

[Ekliptika]

First, JMHO: "Where was (the phone) during the search?" Poppin' Fresh, the Felony Doughboy, hid it because he knew how incriminating it could be. A while back I told about the murder of a friend--the police overlooked a spent bullet from the murder weapon, underneath the bed my friend was murdered in. Didn't b

I said elsewhere: I'm still not saying KAK *is* the murderer. But the more I toss it around in my tiny little brain, the more reasons I find to think he very well COULD have been the murderer. As in (JMHO), clearly the most likely choice, given what I know about the case. Adding more people, planning, conspiracies, motives--you can make it more complicated but "KAK felt so inadequate that he wound up murdering two girls he had been catfishing (deliberately or during a rape attempt)" is the simplest explanation I see these days. Your reminder of TK's stupid lie adds weight to that. Again, JMHO.

I very much agree with your and @TL45 line of thinking and both of you put my thinking into words in your posts.
One thing though that I cannot get my head around is the YBG sketch and that LE seems adamant at the April 2019 presser that this is the face of the killer. If you have any thoughts around how that fits into the narrative of either KAK/TK being the the killer, I’d be very interested in hearing those. Thank you

 

[Always Stay Hopeful]

I keep thinking about how it seems like too much of a coincidence that this happened the day before Valentine's day, and that's the day Abby and Libby were found. I've thought about it being a matter of opportunity, as well, but for some reason the timing seems significant to me. It may have been both. I've thought about Valentine's day being a trigger to him, and the girls having the day off from school and being there as the opportunity. Has anyone else thought about this?

 

[sandy_80]

I keep thinking about how it seems like too much of a coincidence that this happened the day before Valentine's day, and that's the day Abby and Libby were found. I've thought about it being a matter of opportunity, as well, but for some reason the timing seems significant to me. It may have been both. I've thought about Valentine's day being a trigger to him, and the girls having the day off from school and being there as the opportunity. Has anyone else thought about this?

yes..I have talked about this before...I felt he might have been angry towards a certain female or in general ...I have always felt the crime had more anger than just a sexual attack..and this suggests a lone wolf to me..

 

[Kell1]

This is just my opinion, but the idea of BG being just an innocent guy on a walk that day has about zero chance of being correct.

1) The photo of BG taken by Libby is still on on the FBI wanted poster, despite them tinkering with the written description of the suspect
2) After years, nobody has come forward to say "that was me, I was just out for a walk that day"
3)The "down the hill comment" was from the same video as BG walking towards Libby and Abby and so it was BGs voice

BG is the killer of Abby and Libby. MOO

Agreed, and its valid , BG needs to be ruled out before ill ever feel he wasnt involved, and i also feel this individual was most likely responsible , but its still a possibility, the FBI is also now, taking the original physical descriptions of the suspect off of the wanted posters and is asking for anyone who has any contact with the Anthony shots persona to come forward .

Ive stated why some people don't come forward in investigations in another post on this thread.

As for the voice on that recording it wasnt the same clip , it was 2 separate clips, one was a video the other was an audio recording, and though it probably was the BG's voice, any half decent defense attorney is going to get that thrown out, because theres not a video of the individual actually saying it if that makes sense

Remember were only given what little info we know, we can make educated guesses, on certain things, but in order to investigate things thoroughly you have to look at the evidence from different angles .

For ex, perhaps this case, is still unsolved, because they are chasing a figure on a video that had nothing to do with the girls deaths? , I dont think they are, but you have to look at that angle .

You can see the confusion that causes right here on that thread .."KAK looks nothing like BG". Ok well that could be right.

Though I agree hes probably responsible , you have to consider the chance he may not and try to look at other possibilities in investigations

 

[Falling Down]

I took a little break and I'm not fully caught up here. So forgive me if this has already been discussed.

The Kline home which is located in Peru was raided as part of a child investigation 12 days after the girls were murdered. KK was arrested as part of that investigation. Has LE known about KK's connection to this case for 5 years?

I'm having some difficulty putting this all together, myself.

I don't understand how ISP and the FBI couldn't trace the SM account to the contact between KK and Libby, early in the investigation. Now it could be the contact was made over a public internet connection KK accessed, say with a burner phone or ?.

When I was working on a contract in Kokomo a year and a half ago, during random conversations several people told me what they knew about the case, and what happened locally right after the murders. ISP basically shook down the massive Chrysler foundry operation, they interviewed numerous people who worked there, including a bunch of RSO's. I know the latter has been mentioned here before, however I'd wondered why they went there, specifically, to execute searches related to the murder case. Chrysler has a few other large plants there, too.

I also think it's interesting how LE have been insistent there was no SM connection, I'm going off memory of some comments made a few years ago. Yet here we are 5 years later, and it turns out KK was interviewed about being connected with LG on SM. In the mugshot, he's wearing a UAW local shirt from the local there in Kokomo.

I'd thought early on that BG might very well be a shift worker, as that day in 2017 was a regular work day for most people. There are a bunch of large-scale manufacturing operations in that area. Makes me wonder whose WiFi KK was pulling off of for his deeds.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

Agreed, and its valid , BG needs to be ruled out before ill ever feel he wasnt involved, and i also feel this individual was most likely responsible , but its still a possibility, the FBI is also now, taking the original physical descriptions of the suspect off of the wanted posters and is asking for anyone who has any contact with the Anthony shots persona to come forward .

Ive stated why some people don't come forward in investigations in another post on this thread.

I wonder if LE are trying to get a "short list" of folks who were associated with the account.

As for the voice on that recording it wasnt the same clip , it was 2 separate clips, one was a video the other was an audio recording, and though it probably was the BG's voice, any half decent defense attorney is going to get that thrown out, because theres not a video of the individual actually saying it if that makes sense

Remember were only given what little info we know, we can make educated guesses, on certain things, but in order to investigate things thoroughly you have to look at the evidence from different angles .

For ex, perhaps this case, is still unsolved, because they are chasing a figure on a video that had nothing to do with the girls deaths? , I dont think they are, but you have to look at that angle .

You can see the confusion that causes right here on that thread .."KAK looks nothing like BG". Ok well that could be right.

When we have no idea what BG looks like...

Good point.

 

[TL4S]

I'm having some difficulty putting this all together, myself.

I don't understand how ISP and the FBI couldn't trace the SM account to the contact between KK and Libby, early in the investigation. Now it could be the contact was made over a public internet connection KK accessed, say with a burner phone or ?.

When I was working on a contract in Kokomo a year and a half ago, during random conversations several people told me what they knew about the case, and what happened locally right after the murders. ISP basically shook down the massive Chrysler foundry operation, they interviewed numerous people who worked there, including a bunch of RSO's. I know the latter has been mentioned here before, however I'd wondered why they went there, specifically, to execute searches related to the murder case. Chrysler has a few other large plants there, too.

I also think it's interesting how LE have been insistent there was no SM connection, I'm going off memory of some comments made a few years ago. Yet here we are 5 years later, and it turns out KK was interviewed about being connected with LG on SM. In the mugshot, he's wearing a UAW local shirt from the local there in Kokomo.

I'd thought early on that BG might very well be a shift worker, as that day in 2017 was a regular work day for most people. There are a bunch of large-scale manufacturing operations in that area. Makes me wonder whose WiFi KK was pulling off of for his deeds.

JMO

I don't think KK was using public WiFi with a burner phone. Per LE, KK was connected to the WiFi at his dad's house, where they both lived. The days, months, and years of CSAM and a_shots communications originated from that house, sometimes for hours at a time, according to the LE interview with KK in 2020.

KK's dad worked at Chrysler in Kokomo, but KK did not, so it's my assumption the UAW shirt he's wearing in his mug shot came from his dad (or his grandpa, who retired from Chrysler). His dad works 3rd shift with Mondays off, according to KK in his interview with BMc on HLN.

I'm very curious that locals reported so much activity early on at the Chrysler location...

 

[Falling Down]

IMO LE could be dealing with an experienced killer who has done this before. LE has called this case complex, and with as many entities that have been involved in this investigation, I believe that to be a true statement. It seems the perp knew what he was doing and wasn't sloppy enough. Just something that crossed my mind as I drank my coffee to get the wheels going this morning. Have a good day all!

I've thought since early on that the fantasy this individual carried out that day was well-planned. Many variables worked out in his favor, and who goes through all that trouble to kill two juveniles?

Has he killed before? Maybe. It wouldn't surprise me if BG has a SK fetish, like researching tactics SK's used to lure or attack or ? their victims.

Just strikes me as odd how the FBI basically commandeered 6,000+ digital billboards across the U.S. as soon as the video from Libby's phone was processed. I just think certain details spooked LE early on.

 

[Falling Down]

I don't think KK was using public WiFi with a burner phone. Per LE, KK was connected to the WiFi at his dad's house, where they both lived. The days, months, and years of CSAM and a_shots communications originated from there, sometimes for hours at a time, according to the LE interview with KAK in 2020.

KK's dad worked at Chrysler in Kokomo, but KK did not, so it's my assumption the UAW shirt he's wearing in his mug shot came from his dad (or his grandpa, who retired from Chrysler). His dad works 3rd shift with Mondays off, according to KAK in his interview with BMc on HLN.

I'm very curious that locals reported so much activity early on at the Chrysler location...

Thanks for clearing all that up. I'd wondered if he'd worked at Chrysler.

My understanding is the searches at Chrysler were pretty involved, and a bunch of folks were interviewed. Several employees told me about it.

 

[TL4S]

Thanks for clearing all that up. I'd wondered if he'd worked at Chrysler.

My understanding is the searches at Chrysler were pretty involved, and a bunch of folks were interviewed. Several employees told me about it.

It's interesting to me, too, because during the 2020 interview with KK, he said his dad had a lot of "work cars," and mentioned again how he was employed at Chrysler. It wasn't very clear to me from where he was obtaining these cars, but it seems every couple years, he had new ones he was working on. I thought KK just meant "work cars" as the vehicles his dad was using to drive back and forth to Kokomo. But then we have the mention of a vehicle at the April 2019 PC. Just makes me wonder if there was a connection made between the a_shots account, a vehicle seen at the trails, and Chrysler, with the common thread being KK and his dad.

 

[Falling Down]

It's interesting to me, too, because during the 2020 interview with KK, he said his dad had a lot of "work cars," and mentioned again how he was employed at Chrysler. It wasn't very clear to me from where he was obtaining these cars, but it seems every couple years, he had new ones he was working on. I thought KK just meant cars his dad was driving back and forth to Kokomo. But then we have the mention of a vehicle at the April 2019 PC. Just makes me wonder if there was a connection made between the a_shots account, a vehicle seen at the trails, and Chrysler, with the common thread being KK and his dad.

That's one angle I've been curious about, say if BG had access to multiple vehicles, perhaps even had driven one not registered to him which he used that day.

Hmmm...

 

[TL4S]

That's one angle I've been curious about, say if BG had access to multiple vehicles, perhaps even had driven one not registered to him which he used that day.

Hmmm...

Or one that wasn't registered at all...

 

[AC4RD]

... FWIW, I am an expert in cognition/perception and have published studies involving face perception, which is why I made the comment about being pretty confident that video still is KAK.

This is very interesting--thank you!

I've felt sure for a while that KAK could easily be BG: the height and weight I see in the Hoover Dam photo look very much (to me) like the bridge video; the body type (bulky upper body to my eye with thin legs) also seems to match. I had not really looked at the face until now, because it seemed unclear to me--does he have a scarf across his lower face? Hearing you say you believe the face also matches is good to know.

I've thought KAK *could* be BG in the video but thought it was not, just because I thought KAK was too passive to go take some sort of physical action. But some recent posts here have changed my mind on that. And, as TL4S and Boxer have both said recently, some of the coincidences (in communication with Libby, last known to speak to her, father posting obvious lies about KAK's location during the murders, etc.) are making me rethink this.

I've largely come to believe KAK not only *could be* the murderer, its also likely that he actually IS the murderer, just based on the odds. Other people might be involved, maybe there was a scheme, a devious plot to get the girls alone, there might have been a confederate on the other end of the bridge or in the parked car at the CPS building, there may have been a puppy under BG's jacket, all of that---but increasingly it seems to me that the simplest and most likely explanation is that KAK decided to go take action. Just MHO, of course. The news about the Flora pizza parlor is interesting, but my bet is that it's a side issue.

If you can provide a little explanation about the facial similarities, I'd be glad to hear it--though it doesn't appear to lend itself to a simple verbal explanation. Your opinion still counts significantly in my book, Thanks!

 

[AC4RD]

I... One thing though that I cannot get my head around is the YBG sketch and that LE seems adamant at the April 2019 presser that this is the face of the killer. If you have any thoughts around how that fits into the narrative of either KAK/TK being the the killer, I’d be very interested in hearing those. Thank you

My own simple belief ("simpleminded belief," if you like) is that both of the police drawings are lousy; one of them is probably more accurate than the other but I think both of them stink. Look at LE's own feelings about them: *not the same person / *wait, might be the same person / *this is him / *wait, no, THIS is him. I think neither sketch is any good for identification. Eyewitnesses are notoriously inaccurate, then a police artist has to try to make sense of descriptions, and in one of the two, I believe even to merge multiple descriptions into one drawing. Heck, we no longer feel confidennt enough to have the BG height and weight on the "wanted" poster--how much more accurate could the drawings be if even vital statistics are so far off?

My own opinion is just that both sketches are nearly useless for identification and if anything probably wasted time and investigative effort. And I'd like to point out that this opinion is *entirely* untainted by any training or experience in that line. Just MHO.

 

[TL4S]

I very much agree with your and @TL45 line of thinking and both of you put my thinking into words in your posts.
One thing though that I cannot get my head around is the YBG sketch and that LE seems adamant at the April 2019 presser that this is the face of the killer. If you have any thoughts around how that fits into the narrative of either KAK/TK being the the killer, I’d be very interested in hearing those. Thank you

I'll follow up with this, as well. Honestly, I'm losing my footing and falling into some conspiracy theory-type thinking in regards to the sketches.

First we have a sketch of an older man, which was made via input from multiple witnesses. Then there is the 2019 PC "change in direction" to a younger-looking man, actually drawn from one witness, right after the murders. Not only do we have a change in suspect sketch and description (except hair color), but we also have the confusing statements by LE about how sketches are not photos, the first one is secondary, the killer will be a combination of the two, etc. There's also the fleeting mention of the vehicle parked at CPS. And more recently, the suspect description has been narrowed down to white male. While the general consensus has been that LE just doesn't know what the **** they're doing, maybe there's a tactical method behind these moves.

They've received thousands of tips in this case. But the sketches, the statements regarding the sketches, the April 2019 PC details, and other things might all be directed not towards the general public, but to the killer(s) and/or those who know the killer(s). Maybe the young sketch is the killer, as they say, or it's the person who holds that "one last tip" LE needs to arrest the real killer and LE is putting the hammer down to try to make him talk. IDK.

 

[raja]

Wow, finally was able to listen to the latest MS podcast.

So TK had a dirt bike. Interesting. Of course a lot of people have dirt bikes. We don’t know that a dirt bike had anything to do with this crime, just following up on above post.

Could a dirt bike be put in a car to take to another location? I assume you can in a truck but I don't know about a car. A dirt bike would allow some on to move around quickly. Perp could get out of there pronto.