Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #145

[FeelMyHeat]

So they thought BG was RL and then changed directions in 2019 to KK?


MOO

 

[Yvettea]

So they thought BG was RL and then changed directions in 2019 to KK?


MOO

It seemed like the people that produce Murder Sheet thought so. IMO

 

[JnRyan]

Random comment: Every time I get discouraged thinking this crime will never be solved, I think of Jessie Matthew in the University of Virginia murders. Morgan Harrington and Hannah Graham (sp?)

That case felt very similar. They had DNA and other evidence but did not know the name of the perpetrator.

Eventually, the killer struck again within 3 years, this time on Hannah Graham. This time, the killer, Jessie Matthew was seen on video following Hannah and then into a bar..where they left together in his car. He later abducted her and killed her. He was tracked down and surveilled and DNA was obtained. He was a match and was identified as the killer.

Even though he looked just like the sketch (except his hair was now in dreadlocks), he was never a suspect. His friends even joked with him in Charlottesville that he'd better watch out, he looked like the sketch and the police were going to come and get him. Again, he was never on police radar even though he was the spitting image of the sketch. Nobody even turned in a tip that he looked just like the sketch.

My (under-educated) total personal opinion is that the A_SHOTS investigation is not related to the murders and that they don't know who to look for.

I hope the killer does not strike again before an arrest comes (assuming he is not already arrested for another crime)

The part where Matthew's friends and co-workers made jokes about his resemblance to the sketch makes me wonder if there aren't others making jokes about the Delphi killer and are not calling it in. OR one of them did, but in chasing down tens of thousands of tips, the tipster doesn't sound credible to LE.

I also don't believe we have heard of anyone or anything yet that can lead LE to the killer and that includes this latest anthony_shots business. I still firmly believe that in amongst all those tips there is at least one of the killer and LE for one reason or another can't make the connection.

 

[FromGermany1]

IF there is something in the files with RL - do they -LE/FBI- want to wait for his death or what?? In his case: it's urgent!! MOO

Btw, the sketch #1 = OldBG doesn't look and wasn't described like being RL, IMO.

 

[JnRyan]

I don't even know what to think after reading this.

Wow! If that doesn't sound like LE thought they were on to the killer with RL, I don't know how it could be plainer. Now I firmly believe he was jailed because LE wanted him there till they got more evidence or eliminated him. And at the time, LE explained away that RL was only being arrested because of an unrelated charge that LE could not overlook. IOW, RL had nothing to do with the murders and he just got swept up for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[JnRyan]

I agree with a lot that you said here. I wonder if the killer killed himself at some point thinking they were getting close to arresting him or discovering who he was. I wonder if any local suicides were looked at in connection with this case.

Its happened before. Robert Brashers committed a rape/murder in SC in 1990 and a rape and double murder in MO in 1998. He would commit suicide when LE stopped him for driving a vehicle with stolen tags a year after his last known crime. It would be 7-8 years later when LE in Memphis FINALLY test a 10 year old rape kit and find another crime he committed in 1997. The connection to Brashers would not be made until 2018 through genetics.

 

[FrostedGlass]

IF there is something in the files with RL - do they -LE/FBI- want to wait for his death or what?? In his case: it's urgent!! MOO

Btw, the sketch #1 = OldBG doesn't look and wasn't described like being RL, IMO.

Ron Logan passed away earlier this year. They trotted him out in life and now are trotting him out in death.

Now let's see the probable cause on Bicycle Bridge Road.

 

[Yemelyan]

I don't even know what to think after reading this.

Definitely a lot of information here. It contradicts many of the rumors that floated around about the crime scene:

1. The affidavit states there was no indication that the girls fought or struggled.
2. There was a great deal of blood loss at the scene.
3. The bodies were "moved and staged" at the scene - I think we will have to wait on clarification as to if this is staging to disguise the nature of the crime or if this is personation behavior by the offender.
4. There was an item of (evidently) clothing taken from one victim as a souvenir while the rest of her clothing was "recovered"
5. Hair evidence was recovered.
6. The FBI thought it it was possible that there is digital evidence related to the crime, including perhaps digital depictions of it.

Plus much more to think about.
<MODSNIP to remove reference to a earlier linked document that is no longer available. Instead, this info can be HEARD on the 5.16.22 Murder Sheet podcast here:
Murder Sheet - The Delphi Murders: Search Warrant

 

[abams]

Definitely a lot of information here. It contradicts many of the rumors that floated around about the crime scene:

1. The affidavit states there was no indication that the girls fought or struggled.
2. There was a great deal of blood loss at the scene.
3. The bodies were "moved and staged" at the scene - I think we will have to wait on clarification as to if this is staging to disguise the nature of the crime or if this is personation behavior by the offender.
4. There was an item of (evidently) clothing taken from one victim as a souvenir while the rest of her clothing was "recovered"
5. Hair evidence was recovered.
6. The FBI thought it it was possible that there is digital evidence related to the crime, including perhaps digital depictions of it.

Plus much more to think about. All of the above are directly from the affidavit and search warrant released by the Murder Sheet and linked above.

Awesome summary, thanks! I'm listening to the podcast now because I couldn't find a working link to the warrant, and I'd just add that unidentified hair -and- fibers were found.

 

[Yemelyan]

Awesome summary, thanks! I'm listening to the podcast now because I couldn't find a working link to the warrant, and I'd just add that unidentified hair -and- fibers were found.

Yes, the affidavit terms it as such: "During the processing of the crime scene investigators located unknown fibers and unidentified hairs which may later be used for comparison of similar fibers or hairs."

 

[Falling Down]

My take from the documents is LE had absolutely no clue where to go with the investigation, a month after the murders they searched RL's property, based off of a probation violation. Big whoop.

So after one month, after the stuff they put out in the media, after all the hype, after all the tips. LE had zero credible information leading them to a killer or peripheral info regarding anything that could lead them to the actual killer.

BG must have been having a field day with the circus.

 

[Yemelyan]

The warrant also reveals how LE was thinking in the very earliest stages of the investigation. There is really no indication from these documents that LE suspected anyone arranged to meet the girls at the trails through social media or had groomed them online. The supporting evidence given to constitute probable cause for looking at Logan's property includes:
1. At least 15 different tips were called in by people who thought the image of the man on the bridge was Logan
2. Logan had recent, physically abusive relationships with sexual partners
3. Logan's cell phone data seem to indicate that he was outside of his residence and in the vicinity of the crime scene at two different points in the evening that the girls were murdered
4. LE thought he was physically capable of the crime despite his age and that his voice was consistent with the voice on the video
5. He was known to carry a handgun in a fanny pack and LE observed both guns and edged weapons in his home
6. He asked an individual to lie to LE and create an alibi for him about his trip to an aquarium around the time in which the girls were abducted and killed (but did not ask the same individual to lie about an earlier trip to a transfer station which occurred before the murders - which LE felt could possibly indicate some prior knowledge of the timing of the events of the crime)

And I'm probably forgetting some other things that LE listed.

Edit to add - Now I'm really curious to see the probable cause documents for the Bicycle Bridge Road search.

 

[abams]

My take from the documents is LE had absolutely no clue where to go with the investigation, a month after the murders they searched RL's property, based off of a probation violation. Big whoop.

So after one month, after the stuff they put out in the media, after all the hype, after all the tips. LE had zero credible information leading them to a killer or peripheral info regarding anything that could lead them to the actual killer.

BG must have been having a field day with the circus.

I did not get the impression at all that they searched the property based only on a probation violation -- my recollection is the violation only came out after the searches and interviews of RL.

To be fair to investigators, they had to investigate and eliminate the guy on whose property the girls were found, and the info they developed which was cited in the affidavit sounds (and was) sufficient to grant a search warrant.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I also think it’s noteworthy that RL asked for an alibi for specific times BEFORE the girls were found dead.

 

[TTF14]

Edit to add - Now I'm really curious to see the probable cause documents for the Bicycle Bridge Road search.

RSBM

Definitely. Was the missing clothing item found there?

 

[Yemelyan]

I also think it’s noteworthy that RL asked for an alibi for specific times BEFORE the girls were found dead.

Agreed. If the person who he asked to lie to LE is correct about the timing, it does seem significant. One could claim that RL is not dumb and guessed (correctly) based on his probation that he would be asked to account for his location when hours had passed and the girls had not been found, but that would mean that out of everybody in Delphi - from LE to the girls' families - RL was the only one who perceived that foul play was likely to be involved. Because you're not usually asked for an alibi about runaway or lost girls, you would only be asked about girls who were harmed. Unless he thought that searchers may have already discovered he wasn't home in the early evening and could "tell" on him? But then why not ask for an alibi for the earlier trip to the transfer station too?

 

[Falling Down]

I did not get the impression at all that they searched the property based only on a probation violation -- my recollection is the violation only came out after the searches and interviews of RL.

To be fair to investigators, they had to investigate and eliminate the guy on whose property the girls were found, and the info they developed which was cited in the affidavit sounds (and was) sufficient to grant a search warrant.

I understand all that.

A month later, though? Sounds to me like RL was one of a scant few people they were investigating in the weeks after the murders.

People were tipping him in based on his appearance, saying he looked like BG? LE figured these were credible tips?

Looks to me like they were flailing about, clueless about where to point the direction of the investigation.

 

[Falling Down]

Agreed. If the person who he asked to lie to LE is correct about the timing, it does seem significant. One could claim that RL is not dumb and guessed (correctly) based on his probation that he would be asked to account for his location when hours had passed and the girls had not been found, but that would mean that out of everybody in Delphi - from LE to the girls' families - RL was the only one who perceived that foul play was likely to be involved. Because you're not usually asked for an alibi about runaway or lost girls, you would only be asked about girls who were harmed. Unless he thought that searchers may have already discovered he wasn't home in the early evening and could "tell" on him? But then why not ask for an alibi for the earlier trip to the transfer station too?

My take is the probation violations were numerous, he tried to cover his tracks. He was prohibited from drinking alcohol, but did so that day while on his trip south to Lafayette.

So he needed an alibi when LE came around to ask where he was earlier in the day.

 

[TL4S]

Agreed. If the person who he asked to lie to LE is correct about the timing, it does seem significant. One could claim that RL is not dumb and guessed (correctly) based on his probation that he would be asked to account for his location when hours had passed and the girls had not been found, but that would mean that out of everybody in Delphi - from LE to the girls' families - RL was the only one who perceived that foul play was likely to be involved. Because you're not usually asked for an alibi about runaway or lost girls, you would only be asked about girls who were harmed. Unless he thought that searchers may have already discovered he wasn't home in the early evening and could "tell" on him? But then why not ask for an alibi for the earlier trip to the transfer station too?

Now I can't remember... was it proven that RL was indeed at the transfer station?

 

[Yemelyan]

I understand all that.

A month later, though? Sounds to me like RL was one of a scant few people they were investigating in the weeks after the murders.

People were tipping him in based on his appearance, saying he looked like BG? LE figured these were credible tips?

Looks to me like they were flailing about, clueless about where to point the direction of the investigation.

I think LE originally gave a lot of weight to the information tipped in by his two former sexual partners who described his violent and abusive behavior (such as dragging by the hair). To one of them he threatened that he could kill her and no one would find her body. And these weren't relationships in the deep past - one of these women began her relationship with him in 2016.

According to one of these women, she saw the picture of BG and thought it was Logan before she was even made to understand that this was also the suspect in the murders. So IMO this may have greatly influenced the original direction of the investigation.