Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #146

[margarita25]

We know there was a lot of blood. I think this may lend itself, again, to BG washing up in the creek. Even if there was no blood, I still think washing would have been likely. Did he wash them off also, hence a part of the moving and staging. Assault, kill, wash, move. He would have been wet, and likely dumped his shoes and all clothing right afterwards.

 

[hafom8840]

If BG turns out to be deceased and thus cannot get arrested, I am going to be quite disappointed.

 

[margarita25]

I think at this point anyone could be BG. It’s more like who is not BG.

 

[Hoosier952]

Have we ever heard whether he did or didn’t participate in the search?
Edited - okay, I see now that it’s likely no because he was home working on the aquarium if telling the truth.
I mean, maybe. In the Jacob Wetterling case people didn’t believe the POI was home cataloging his record collection or whatever, but it turned out he likely was and he was innocent of the crime.
Lots of weird things here with RL, of course. Who knows. Don’t get why no footprint evidence was mentioned if they think he was out at crime scene. There should have been footprints from house to scene and back again, maybe a couple of times.

LE could potentially run into a lot of issues investigating RL and any evidence found at the scene.
Footprints to the crime scene and back to his house could easily be explained by a trip in the days prior to the murder. I'm not sure there is a way to age a footprint.

Same with DNA, fibers, hair, etc. at the scene belonging to RL. Because it's his property, it would not be abnormal to find those things. Unless they found his DNA in or on the girls, there's really no way to determine why or how it got there. Even his DNA, hair, or fibers being on the girls could have easily been transferred rather than through direct contact.

It would be insanely difficult to rule RL in or out based on that type of evidence alone.

 

[Ekliptika]

**Why make the girls cross a creek and kill them on RL’s property?**

ETA I don’t know why I’m hung up on the creek crossing element, it just seems awkward and risky. Why even go to RL’s property at all? Trying to throw off a future scent hound?

Snipped by me.
I am hung up on the creek crossing as well.
When I first learned about this case, I thought it was about abducting the girls to a waiting car somewhere, maybe at the dirt road just below the South end of the bridge (down the hill). The something went wrong, the girls tried to flee, ran across the creek and where killed when he caught up with them.
Or maybe the waiting car was at the cementary and the creek crossing was planned, but something made the killer kill the girls instead of going through with the abduction.
The car at the abandoned CPS building could be how the killer Got there, where an accomplish would wait for a sign (phone Call) to go to the cementary.
With the recent development that perhaps tight the case to CSAM and filming, I still Think this could be a likely scenario, but I am not fixed on this theory, as there are so many things we do not know.

 

[somequestions]

There is a small detail that has always made me think the property owner had nothing to do with the murder of Abigail Williams and Liberty German: In my opinion, the person in the video is wearing a floppy eared hat. I never really even considered the property owner and even though there is a lot of new information about him, I would still be very surprised if he committed the crime.

I suppose there is a possibility that before doing any news interviews the property owner decided to change hats, but that is yet another strange detail(my opinion).

If you knew you had been captured on video, would you really be out giving tv news interviews so people can see what you look like?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Hi, I was a big follower of the Delphi murders case here on Websleuths for a long time, but I fell away from the threads due to too much frustration and dead ends.

I’m attempting to catch up because of information online that I’m just now seeing. I’m sure this has been seen and posted by many, but I’m just stunned about the parts regarding neighbor Ron Logan:

The affidavit indicates that Logan, who died in January 2020, lied to investigators.

It also indicated that Logan asked his cousin the morning of Feb. 14, 2017, to tell police — if asked — that he picked up Logan at his house between 2 and 2:30 p.m. Feb. 13, 2017, and drove to an aquarium store in Lafayette.

Based on investigators experience it is reasonable to believe that the creation of an alibi prior to the discovery of a crime indicates culpability or knowledge of the crime," the affidavit states.

The affidavit also noted that Logan's voice could be the man on the audio recording released by police in which the killer orders the girls to "go down the hill."

Possible suspect in Delphi murders on police radar since the killings

At least 15 tipsters said "bridge man" was Ron Logan, according to an affidavit for a search warrant.

www.jconline.com

Welcome back! I too, have followed since Feb 2017, but have drifted away out of frustration, following other cases, or simply due to life responsibilities. I always return when there is new information. I’m sure many of us have done the same. What else can we do after FIVE YEARS?

Is there a chance that RL was providing an alibi for the “cousin” by giving HIM a reason for being at the property around 2 pm on 2/13/17? “Hey, just say you were here to pick me up”.. something along those lines.

 

[sandy_80]

why the DNA being ignored ?
they do have some sort of DNA ...SO ARE THEY USING IT OR NOT
if they aren't sure its from BG ..why say they have dna ?
to burst his bubble ? but if he is really following the case.. he was seeing many suspects are coming along
isnt this proof they dont have anything ?

 

[TL4S]

Transcribed directly from the RL SW affidavit:

The development of this suspect was made by a 43 second video taken on LG's phone, where the suspect follows the victims as they are walking on the Monon High Bridge Trail. Near the end of the video, the suspect speaks to the victims, saying, "down the hill." It sounds as though he is directing the victims to leave the trail they were on and enter the wooded area below.

There has long been the scenario where BG enters the bridge from the south side and makes a u-turn, which was the suspicious activity that triggered L to start her video. This is HLN's theory, as well (and maybe they have inside knowledge).

But in my own interpretation of the FBI agent's description, I think it sounds as if the killer started at the north side and followed the girls across. In this case, he likely made it across in 4-5 minutes or less, which is apparently pretty quick. Maybe it was the speed in which he was gaining on them that freaked them out? Any thoughts?

*IMO, if the 2:09 phone call was made by the killer, it had to have been made from atop the bridge.*

 

[m00c0w]

Welcome back! I too, have followed since Feb 2017, but have drifted away out of frustration, following other cases, or simply due to life responsibilities. I always return when there is new information. I’m sure many of us have done the same. What else can we do after FIVE YEARS?

Is there a chance that RL was providing an alibi for the “cousin” by giving HIM a reason for being at the property around 2 pm on 2/13/17? “Hey, just say you were here to pick me up”.. something along those lines.

If it was actually the cousin’s alibi, I don’t think the cousin would have been the one to reveal the lie to police.

 

[steeltowngirl]

If it was actually the cousin’s alibi, I don’t think the cousin would have been the one to reveal the lie to police.

I see your point. My fuzzy thinking was when LE talked to the “cousin” they also asked HIM his whereabouts that afternoon. Well, lo and behold, he was at Ron’s place in Delphi, walking distance from the scene of a murder. Ron actually had a reason to be there. He lived there. Why was the “cousin” there? Oh - to pick Ron up. Ron may have told him to say that if he were questioned. Maybe to protect the cousin more so than himself.

BTW, I am putting quotes around “cousin” since we don’t know the identity of this person. Where I live, we call lots of people “cuz”. It may be a regional thing, but unless I see a family tree for RL, and the “cousin” identified, I apply the grain of salt rule.

 

[Falling Down]

Transcribed directly from the RL SW affidavit:

The development of this suspect was made by a 43 second video taken on LG's phone, where the suspect follows the victims as they are walking on the Monon High Bridge Trail. Near the end of the video, the suspect speaks to the victims, saying, "down the hill." It sounds as though he is directing the victims to leave the trail they were on and enter the wooded area below.

There has long been the scenario where BG enters the bridge from the south side and makes a u-turn, which was the suspicious activity that triggered L to start her video. This is HLN's theory, as well (and maybe they have inside knowledge).

But in my own interpretation of the FBI agent's description, I think it sounds as if the killer started at the north side and followed the girls across. In this case, he likely made it across in 4-5 minutes or less, which is apparently pretty quick. Maybe it was the speed in which he was gaining on them that freaked them out? Any thoughts?

*IMO, if the 2:09 phone call was made by the killer, it had to have been made from atop the bridge.*

The bridge is 850 feet long. I'd imagine someone not afraid of heights too much could make it across in under 6 minutes.

Of note, the bridge was not part of the Monon trail, in fact ownership transferred from CSX to the preservation group later on that same week.

Good post.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

We know there was a lot of blood. I think this may lend itself, again, to BG washing up in the creek. Even if there was no blood, I still think washing would have been likely. Did he wash them off also, hence a part of the moving and staging. Assault, kill, wash, move. He would have been wet, and likely dumped his shoes and all clothing right afterwards.

Again I often wonder just how comfortable this individual was along that stretch of Deer Creek.

Say he did clean up in the creek a little, line-of-sight someone looking in that direction from the nearby private property on the other side of the creek could have seen him. As we know, nobody was home that day. BG had to have known nobody was home, and therefore would have been able to get the girls across the creek, and maybe he could have cleaned up, too, w/o being seen.

 

[MichMan015]

Since RL has passed away does anyone know what happened to his property?

How about the extra office space the LE rented recently, that was supposed to have agents working on this case? Is that happening?
Michman015

 

[TL4S]

The bridge is 850 feet long. I'd imagine someone not afraid of heights too much could make it across in under 6 minutes.

Of note, the bridge was not part of the Monon trail, in fact ownership transferred from CSX to the preservation group later on that same week.

Good post.

JMO

I noted that, too, and wondered if maybe LE knows something from audio, other videos, or witnesses to make them think BG was following the girls on the trail even before the bridge. DC has said the crime scene starts at the trailhead.

 

[mi_hiker]

Have we discussed the possibility of RL stumbling across the crime scene either the evening of 2/13 or early morning of 2/14? He knows the girls are missing when searchers ask to check his property the evening of 2/13. It's dark and probably hard to see much, but of course he knows his land well. There was the text message sent by his phone at 7:56pm, then a text message received by his phone at 10:16pm. Could be nothing, could have been him asking a close friend/family member for advice on what to do. Would also explain why he feels the need to line up an alibi. If he came across the crime scene in the early morning of 2/14 (I think this is more likely), it would also explain his later comment about the processed scene being pristine. He would have witnessed the scene as the killer left it, and then walked his land after it had been fully processed and restored. Quite a contrast.

This would also add complexity to the investigation as he may have (intentionally or not) interfered with the crime scene, left evidence, foot prints. LE may also believe he took pictures of the scene (per the search warrant). His story may have been that he innocently stumbled across the scene, panicked, lined up his alibi, and that's why he didn't call police.
All MOO.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

(respectfully snipped for focus) Just MHO but I think it clearly is a command, and this is obvious in the very first press conference with the LG cellphone audio;

Delphi Police Conference 02.22.17 FULL | RTV6

Cpt Dave Burstin, beginning at 17m15s in; clip played x 4, twice, beginning at 19 minutes.

This is the original "down the hill" audio; at 17m15s Captain Burstin says it is 'four words .. ah, three words," but this is the clip released originally, without the "Guys" preceeding the command. My own opinion (after listening several times) is that BG clearly says "GO down the hill"--a command, imperative voice.

The emphasis added above is mine; in the audio clip, "go" sounds somewhat minimized, almost slurred. It sounds rather like "G'down the hill" to me. But I clearly hear the word "go" begin the command. Listen for yourself and see what you think.

There are several edited versions of the audio on the web, in which noise has been removed (Tom Webster's "my research" on youtube is the best IMO) and the word "go" is more clearly audible. But this press conference is the first official release of the audio so we know the clip is endorsed by law enforcement.

When LE released the later audio version with the word "Guys" preceeding the command, the "go" is no longer audible, in my opinion. There are probably conspiracy theories about why the audio was released a second time with "guys" added and "go" omitted, though I don't know of any and personally don't see any reason to look for sinister or conspiratorial motives on the part of the police.

Give it a listen; the clip loops 4 times and it is played twice. Listen all the way through and see if you think the actual command was "go down the hill." MOO is that it was.

Disagrwe

Down the hill I hear

 

[SMK777]

Welcome back! I too, have followed since Feb 2017, but have drifted away out of frustration, following other cases, or simply due to life responsibilities. I always return when there is new information. I’m sure many of us have done the same. What else can we do after FIVE YEARS?

Is there a chance that RL was providing an alibi for the “cousin” by giving HIM a reason for being at the property around 2 pm on 2/13/17? “Hey, just say you were here to pick me up”.. something along those lines.

Thanks very much.
That does seem possible….

 

[SMK777]

If BG turns out to be deceased and thus cannot get arrested, I am going to be quite disappointed.

I know. I’ve seen that over the years in a few cases, and it’s a very unsatisfactory resolution. That said, at this point in time with the Delphi murders, it would be better than nothing.

 

[SMK777]

If you knew you had been captured on video, would you really be out giving tv news interviews so people can see what you look like?

Most likely not. However, I can think of 2 cases viewed on Forensic Files, one with a college girl who was raped and murdered by a fellow-student, and one with a woman in a condo robbed and killed by her neighbor across the hall, where the suspects did exactly that: Went of their own free will on camera several times, and talked at length to news reporters.