Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147

[Prime8]

Connected to the Delphi murders or not - how does someone dare to peep on a girl one week after such a crime? I can't believe it. How brazen must the person be?? Did the person want to disrupt the investigation? Was the next step the bomb threat to Indiana Packers?

That's an excellent point! I've never thought of it that way but it's such a good question. Someone who's not in their right mind (on a spree, too impulsive, etc.).

On a similar note, I've said this before, and I don't mean it to be victim shaming but what if the girl who reported the peeping was not exactly truthful? This is just a thought exercise. I wouldn't fault a teenager for doing so but imagine it, they give their address to a stranger but as time moves on, they start to doubt their decision, especially given what has just happened. So they need help and are extremely scared and either make up or imagine the peeping. Possible?

 

[MichMan015]

Just curious but the new office space that was rented for investigators in Delphi, is it being occupied by detectives working on this? I remember reading that some additional space was going to be needed.

Michman015

 

[Boxer]

Trust me, I assume nothing about KAK knowing anything, but was commenting on the idea others had put out that KAK is currently trying to cut a deal for Delphi info before his trial.
Personally I feel that though KAK may be the key, LE is going to have to solve this case on their own. They’ve had KAK locked up for two years. That well is dry.

MOO KAK was terrified of TK as a child an MOO he will take prison over crossing him. KAK is a pet of raised by a predator. possibly therapy in jail might give him some insights. During his phone interview he said "I don't know why I did it," meaning his online CASM activity. Sounded honest, but somewhere he knows why. His crazy alibi IIRC was that he was watching at his grandparents house.

 

[Mireille]

When I open the video, I see that outbuilding circled in red. Any reason why?

I do not know, this the thumbnail someone chose for it.
My interest lies in a scene that happens between 12:57 and 13:15, where you see two searchers standing next to a large log and something else in the water. The only reason I have not put up a screenshot or image of this is because I believe that this may be the bodies of the two girls in the water.

I know people tend to think they were found on land, but one of the first articles on the case (which can be found in the media and timeline thread as well) states they were "found along a northern stream."
I find these to be an odd choice in words, since if they were found at the side of the stream on land, or close to it, surely they'd just say "next to". Instead they say along, which to me is different. I interpret that as "in the stream, near the bank" but that is just me.

The crime-scene itself could of course be on land and why they taped off such a large area.

Source for these words

Police ID bodies of Ind. girls who disappeared on hike

Authorities said the deaths are being investigated as homicides, and police released a photo of a man seen walking on trails near the time they went missing

www.cbsnews.com

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

Please post media maps & timelines here. *NO DISCUSSION* MISSING: Two 13-year-old girls dropped off to go walking at Carroll County trail Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leazenby said Abigail Williams and Liberty German were last seen around 1 p.m. when they were dropped off to go hiking at High...

www.websleuths.com

MOO

 

[minazoe]

what about the guy who thought he saw a deer? does this line up ? maybe he thinks he sees a deer and then as his eyes take in the scene he sees the bodies..( but they are not exactly where he thought he saw a deer)...so the bodies were not mistaken for a deer..ugh..I wish they would solve this nightmare.

 

[Arkay]

I do not know, this the thumbnail someone chose for it.
My interest lies in a scene that happens between 12:57 and 13:15, where you see two searchers standing next to a large log and something else in the water. The only reason I have not put up a screenshot or image of this is because I believe that this may be the bodies of the two girls in the water.

I know people tend to think they were found on land, but one of the first articles on the case (which can be found in the media and timeline thread as well) states they were "found along a northern stream."
I find these to be an odd choice in words, since if they were found at the side of the stream on land, or close to it, surely they'd just say "next to". Instead they say along, which to me is different. I interpret that as "in the stream, near the bank" but that is just me.

The crime-scene itself could of course be on land and why they taped off such a large area.

Source for these words

Police ID bodies of Ind. girls who disappeared on hike

Authorities said the deaths are being investigated as homicides, and police released a photo of a man seen walking on trails near the time they went missing

www.cbsnews.com

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

Please post media maps & timelines here. *NO DISCUSSION* MISSING: Two 13-year-old girls dropped off to go walking at Carroll County trail Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leazenby said Abigail Williams and Liberty German were last seen around 1 p.m. when they were dropped off to go hiking at High...

www.websleuths.com

MOO

Below is a paragraph from the article you posted, the one that references "along a stream."


Riley said the girls’ bodies were found in a wooded area about 50 feet from the banks of Deer Creek in an area less than a mile upstream from the railroad bridge that’s known locally as the Monon High Bridge.


Therefore it doesn't appear that they were in the body of water. Also, if they were found IN a body of water, I believe a stream would have moved their bodies in the current and they wouldn't have been found together.

 

[carbuff]

Thank you for posting this.find this very interesting.

I wonder if they ran the prints through other databases as well. Like military ones. Or if they are partial so it is hard to match up?

Some crime, is not planned but more oppertunistic in nature. As in, the perp had something they had wanted to do for ages, and he happened to see someone who, was alone, in the age range and appearance he wanted, and decided this was it. Or, he wanted do something and they happened to be there.

So, it is planned in a way, but where it happens and who become victims is not planned. I am not sure the perp meant to murder them (there), or "like that". That too may have been unplanned.

I personally can believe they were random victims of an oppertunistic perp, and I can believe they were targeted and stalked.

Maybe some hunters use the area to hunt for deer, and some maybe go fishing nearby so it could be remnants of things left behind by others. Or like someone mentioned, trash dump, or party place in the woods..

Maybe the perp has local ties, not that he lives there, but may have lived there, or been there on a regular basis to visit friends or family. Maybe even hunted or fished in the area.

Good description of that kind of perp.

In some other cases I've followed, it seems like a certain kind of predator--thieves and rapists as well as killers--are always "on." They're constantly aware of things most of us never think of even when they're shopping for groceries or getting a haircut or whatever. They notice paths in and out, what kind of people are walking through, who's not guarding their handbag, who didn't lock their car, who doesn't look to see someone's following them.

That kind of person can instantly recognize the situation and act on it, and doesn't stop to think about escape routes because they've already subconsciously noticed "I could walk up the trail on the other side of the river," or whatever.

I think Jessica Ridgway's killer who talked about that. And the guy who lured a girl in (Wyoming?), raped her, and left her to die (she survived). Others I can't remember off the top of my head.

 

[Mireille]

what about the guy who thought he saw a deer? does this line up ? maybe he thinks he sees a deer and then as his eyes take in the scene he sees the bodies..( but they are not exactly where he thought he saw a deer)...so the bodies were not mistaken for a deer..ugh..I wish they would solve this nightmare.

<modsnip: No link to source>

Below is a paragraph from the article you posted, the one that references "along a stream."


Riley said the girls’ bodies were found in a wooded area about 50 feet from the banks of Deer Creek in an area less than a mile upstream from the railroad bridge that’s known locally as the Monon High Bridge.


Therefore it doesn't appear that they were in the body of water. Also, if they were found IN a body of water, I believe a stream would have moved their bodies in the current and they wouldn't have been found together.

In the Ron Logan Search Warrant application, it was stated that her phone was last found at a certain co-ordinate that translates in to 40°35'21.4"N 86°38'23.3"W in google maps, this was a cell-phone ping and aprox location. When you look at the map in terrain mode you will see that this area appears a little flat. I suppose could be in water or not, depending on water-level. I do know the police said they found the cell-phone with the girls. (sgt holeman said that. With does not necessarily on, but does mean they found it at the crime-scene)

Maybe the deer were in the water (dead deer) and when they looked up they saw the girls? I don't know quite how, if this was the actual spot mind you, since that hill is steep.

at about 12:09 you see what is the roads around the cemetary, until the camera focuses on the stream and the location these searchers are, very much matches with the co-ordinates given in the Ron Logan Warrant Application in google maps it looks like there are dry-patches in the river.

But in the video there is none, so all of that is under water at least. In the video it looks incredibly steep. I will agree on it looking like it could be 50 feet from the bank though, on map. Though not sure how they saw them from there. Maybe the people in the cars across the stream saw them somehow, or the others in the river. They might have had a better view.
There is also a strange thing one of the searchers is looking at, which I can't tell what is, but they seem interested in it. He or she, also looks behind the log whilst the other waits near it:

Sorry I derailed quite a bit there in my reply. I fully believe this is a very strange crime-scene Everything here is just MOO/ my own opinion.

 

[dotr]

Previously posted by Misty Waters..

Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens

DELPHI, Ind. – It has been one year since Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered while out on a walk on the Delphi Historic Trails. Their killer got away, leaving behind clues that police are…

fox59.com

rbbm.
Feb 13, 2018
''For the first time, the families are taking us minute by minute through the girls’ last hours.

“He saw something. He could not figure out what it was. There were two deer standing up there. As he looked up to see what it was, that is when he saw them,” said Libby’s grandma, Becky Patty.

It was a volunteer searcher who discovered the bodies of the Delphi teens, lying in the grass between a group of trees deep in the woods.

“He called his wife who was with us and said we found them. My sister came up and she was crying and she said I’m so sorry,” said Patty.''

 

[HistoryNut]

Previously posted by Misty Waters..

Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens

DELPHI, Ind. – It has been one year since Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered while out on a walk on the Delphi Historic Trails. Their killer got away, leaving behind clues that police are…

fox59.com

rbbm.
Feb 13, 2018
''For the first time, the families are taking us minute by minute through the girls’ last hours.

“He saw something. He could not figure out what it was. There were two deer standing up there. As he looked up to see what it was, that is when he saw them,” said Libby’s grandma, Becky Patty.

It was a volunteer searcher who discovered the bodies of the Delphi teens, lying in the grass between a group of trees deep in the woods.

“He called his wife who was with us and said we found them. My sister came up and she was crying and she said I’m so sorry,” said Patty.''

I didn’t know that Libby’s dad saw a guy coming off the bridge and talked to him. I wonder if LE suspects this guy was the killer.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I didn’t know that Libby’s dad saw a guy coming off the bridge and talked to him. I wonder if LE suspects this guy was the killer.

I don't think so?
If I remember correctly it was one of the brothers, also called FSG.

MOO

 

[Mireille]

Good description of that kind of perp.

In some other cases I've followed, it seems like a certain kind of predator--thieves and rapists as well as killers--are always "on." They're constantly aware of things most of us never think of even when they're shopping for groceries or getting a haircut or whatever. They notice paths in and out, what kind of people are walking through, who's not guarding their handbag, who didn't lock their car, who doesn't look to see someone's following them.

That kind of person can instantly recognize the situation and act on it, and doesn't stop to think about escape routes because they've already subconsciously noticed "I could walk up the trail on the other side of the river," or whatever.

I think Jessica Ridgway's killer who talked about that. And the guy who lured a girl in (Wyoming?), raped her, and left her to die (she survived). Others I can't remember off the top of my head.

Yes, this is spot on.

Many criminals do not have an off-switch, so to speak. They are always looking for that "next fix" in lack of a better way to describe it. The thrill of the crime is their high and euphoria. Nothing else can measure up to that. Not to them. There is a few criminals who are always prowling, and some daring enough to do it in areas they can get caught.
-Rapists
-Flashers
-Peeping toms
-Thieves/burglars
-Some murderers

Many of these people, have some form of sexual deviancy, and many of them aren't even subtle about it. Often there is an element of sadism. Their pain, gives them pleasure. Many also taken part in some form of mild sexual deviancy that over time escelated. Sometimes it is imposing discomfort on others, not necessarily pain, that gets them going. Like flashers do. I find this to be one of the most bizarre type of sex-crimes, but escelation happens. There have been cases of flashers showing their junk and then chasing after their victim (s), when they try to leave. Some have later gone on to stalking and raping victims. Some even graduated to murder. The man who murdered Sarah Everard in the UK was accused of flashing random people, like at the McDonald's Drive thru There were other accusations that had appeared throughout the years as well. And he was a policeman. Worst part is, with the reports they were getting on him, this could have been prevented.

Source: The indecent exposure epidemic: ‘How are they not taking this seriously after Sarah Everard?’

 

[Peppery]

I don't think so?
If I remember correctly it was one of the brothers, also called FSG.

MOO

brothers? what brothers?

 

[LeBlack]

MOO KAK was terrified of TK as a child an MOO he will take prison over crossing him. KAK is a pet of raised by a predator. possibly therapy in jail might give him some insights. During his phone interview he said "I don't know why I did it," meaning his online CASM activity. Sounded honest, but somewhere he knows why. His crazy alibi IIRC was that he was watching *advertiser censored* at his grandparents house.

Then to go back to an acceptable plea for his testimony? Register SO, - at least 20 years probation after spending 2-3 years in a locked psychiatric facility for treatment. I'm not real keen on him receiving a deal because he has a lot more years to offend than who he may testify against. I imagine either one will be closely monitored by the community.

 

[Ravenmoon]

brothers? what brothers?

I am not certain if I can name them .
DG spoke to one of them briefly on the trail asking him if he had seen 2 girls.
The reply was along the lines of "no, but I did see a couple arguing under the bridge. "

They have called him FSG.

He and his brother are well known in Delphi, they are older men and they are dedicated to the trails and their preservation.

MOO

EBM to add: FSG= Flannel Shirt guy

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Previously posted by Misty Waters..

Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens

DELPHI, Ind. – It has been one year since Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered while out on a walk on the Delphi Historic Trails. Their killer got away, leaving behind clues that police are…

fox59.com

rbbm.
Feb 13, 2018
''For the first time, the families are taking us minute by minute through the girls’ last hours.

“He saw something. He could not figure out what it was. There were two deer standing up there. As he looked up to see what it was, that is when he saw them,” said Libby’s grandma, Becky Patty.

It was a volunteer searcher who discovered the bodies of the Delphi teens, lying in the grass between a group of trees deep in the woods.

“He called his wife who was with us and said we found them. My sister came up and she was crying and she said I’m so sorry,” said Patty.''

I thought that they were located in some kind of a wooded crevasse near the edge of the bank. I thought it was said that someone wouldn’t have noticed where they were because of some type indentation.
But maybe I’m remembering incorrectly.

YMMV.

 

[Charlot123]

Is there a source for that? I've heard the rumors about dolls and teddy bears, but I haven't heard of antique sewing machines and china cabinets being found at the crime scene.

No evidence, merely my idea of how to conceal one's DNA. I simply remembered Chesterton, "Where would a wise man hide a leaf? In the forest. If there were no forest, he would make a forest." - in short, I was always thinking about lack of DNA and thought that if I were to clean something off DNA, I would not bother to wipe off the crime scene clean, but soak it in other humans' DNA. And where would I find such a place? In an antique store. "Emporium" is merely the name of several such stores on one street, not far away from where I live. And yes, soft toys or quilts would collect a lot of dust and work for this purpose. But this is my own idea. I don't know how BG thinks, I merely wonder, how come "no DNA, partial DNA, bad DNA".

 

[IQuestion]

KEGAN KLINE WAS ARRESTED AUGUST 29, 2020....
He will have been in jail for 1 year and 11 months this Friday. Can't help but think KAK knows the score. Two step, fast footwork, keep up the lies, confuse the investigation with non-responsive answers and play for time. He said it himself, "I've never been in trouble with the law before." (Translation: I break the law all the time, you finally caught me, but only because two of my "csam victims" were murdered.) As a first time offender, he'll walk in 6 more months, given credit for time served. He'll be as welcome as a boil on one's backside, IMO.

 

[HistoryNut]

KEGAN KLINE WAS ARRESTED AUGUST 29, 2020....
He will have been in jail for 1 year and 11 months this Friday. Can't help but think KAK knows the score. Two step, fast footwork, keep up the lies, confuse the investigation with non-responsive answers and play for time. He said it himself, "I've never been in trouble with the law before." (Translation: I break the law all the time, you finally caught me, but only because two of my "csam victims" were murdered.) As a first time offender, he'll walk in 6 more months, given credit for time served. He'll be as welcome as a boil on one's backside, IMO.

Agree except I think his sentence will be lots longer unless he's cooperating in the Delphi investigation.

 

[MistyWaters]

KEGAN KLINE WAS ARRESTED AUGUST 29, 2020....
He will have been in jail for 1 year and 11 months this Friday. Can't help but think KAK knows the score. Two step, fast footwork, keep up the lies, confuse the investigation with non-responsive answers and play for time. He said it himself, "I've never been in trouble with the law before." (Translation: I break the law all the time, you finally caught me, but only because two of my "csam victims" were murdered.) As a first time offender, he'll walk in 6 more months, given credit for time served. He'll be as welcome as a boil on one's backside, IMO.

He‘s still in jail awaiting trial since he wasn’t able to post bond. That doesn’t seem like an unusually long time to me considering all courts have been backlogged due to Covid. I don’t see him walking in 6 months considering his 30 felony charges.

“A preliminary plea of not guilty was entered for Kline on Aug. 21, 2020, the case docket showed. Three days later, the court set Kline’s bond at $265,000 or 10 percent cash, per the docket…..”

Man behind “anthony_shots” account charged in child exploitation case

Kegan Kline, 27, created the fake social media profile, court records show. He was arrested last year and charged with soliciting children and child exploitation, officials say.

www.nbcnews.com