Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #148

[FrostedGlass]

I don't completely understand filings in the court site so I'm puzzled why someone found it necessary to pull the KAK case completely offline. Couldn't they have just kept the case online and then added the motions later that day like they did? Seems like that would have been the better way to do it to avoid attention to the motions.

It's almost like they wanted to create curiosity. (tinfoil hat on)

Do the news reporters have deeper access to the court site or do they only see the public filings like we do?

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I don't completely understand filings in the court site so I'm puzzled why someone found it necessary to pull the KAK case completely offline. Couldn't they have just kept the case online and then added the motions later that day like they did? Seems like that would have been the better way to do it to avoid attention to the motions.

It's almost like they wanted to create curiosity. (tinfoil hat on)

Do the news reporters have deeper access to the court site or do they only see the public filings like we do?

Good question.

 

[sandy_80]

so if these teams are really LE ..only if
what can they be looking for ? cant be a sock or clothes items? digital evidence of the murder ? very far fetched
which in our case .. leaves one thing only...weapons

 

[acutename]

so if these teams are really LE ..only if
what can they be looking for ? cant be a sock or clothes items? digital evidence of the murder ? very far fetched
which in our case .. leaves one thing only...weapons

the river looks fairly shallow in the recent picture, but would something really stay in one place in it for years- doesn't it have highs and lows? I have trouble imagining a weapon (unless it was a canon) staying anywhere in the river bed for that long. Am I wrong?

 

[Seattle1]

In 2018, a funny, likable, 16-year-old kid living in rural WA was murdered by his best friend since age 5. But by the end of the investigation, there were 5 more arrests for Benjamin's murder including friends, a parent of friends, and in-laws!

What I also learned from this betrayal and horrific murder case was that depending on the state, it's not necessarily true that polygraph exams are not admissible in court. (Polygraphs were used to discover the additional defendants).

For example, and more specifically to this discussion about a cooperating defendant, in the state of IN (similar to WA), if both sides agree to stipulate on the results of the examination, positive results of a polygraph exam can be entered as evidence to grant a negotiated plea agreement.

IMO, if the troopers took possession of KK, it wasn't to waste their time!

Are lie detector test results admissible in court?

Question: In the State of Indiana, are lie detector test results admissible in court? Answer: The Indiana courts has often found that evidence of a polygraph examination is not admissible in evidence, unless both sides to the litigation agree in advance of the giving of such examination that it...

dgladishlaw.com

 

[TL4S]

Back on 8/19/2020, the court granted a motion to seal, issued a warrant for KAK's arrest, and he was taken into custody. The next day it was unsealed. I'm not any kind of expert on court procedures, but I'm going to assume that a court will not grant a motion to seal without very good reason, as this is in direct relation to the first amendment, FOIA, and all that jazz. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

We do not know why ISP took custody of KAK or why his court files were sealed again this month (he was taken into ISP custody on 8/19/2022, two years to the day he was arrested, by chance), this time for half a day, but IMO, it was with good reason, likely to protect a case. Maybe KAK's CSAM case, or the largest CSAM investigation in Indian history, or Delphi, or something unknown. Clearly KAK is in negotiations, but that's all we know. But we DO know all this is true because it's right there in the court records.

We also know tips about a_shots are to go to the A&L tip line, per ISP. We know a_shots was in communications with L, per the interviews, BP, and KG. We also know that a_shots was traced back to the Peru house and KAK's devices, per affidavit.

These are things we know, even if we regard the 2020 interview as LE trickery, or the MS podcast as bogus, or KAK as a liar. There is a connection between L and a_shots, and there's a connection between a_shots and KAK. It's clear a_shots was catfishing L and L ended up dead.

I suppose only time will tell if KAK or anyone with access to the a_shots account is invoved and this is all related.

 

[Seattle1]

I don't completely understand filings in the court site so I'm puzzled why someone found it necessary to pull the KAK case completely offline. Couldn't they have just kept the case online and then added the motions later that day like they did? Seems like that would have been the better way to do it to avoid attention to the motions.

It's almost like they wanted to create curiosity. (tinfoil hat on)

Do the news reporters have deeper access to the court site or do they only see the public filings like we do?

I've not followed Indiana Criminal cases so not sure what site you are referencing took down the case. However, since the charges against KK are offenses against children, it's understandable that some if not all of the documents were sealed.

Nonetheless, for whatever reason, two years later or on Weds, Aug 24,2022, a Miami County Circuit Court Judge ordered the paperwork to be unsealed in regard to the child case opened against Kegan Kline on August of 2020.

https://fox59.com/news/indycrime/ju...shots-child-🤬🤬🤬🤬-case/?ipid=promo-link-block1

ETA: I don't know how to edit a MSM link with a WS censored title of the article but if the link above does not work, it's Fox59 News dated 8/25/22.

ETA.2: The public court site appears to be accessible and ROA is current.

Indiana Supreme Court public access case search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[sunshineray]

KAK has 29 CSAM-related charges dating back to 2016 and 2017, then one lone charge from 5/14/2020, which is 35-42-4-4(b)(2)/F5: Child Exploitation-Disseminate, exhibit, or offer to do so; send or bring into... This is perplexing to me. Why the three year span in charges? It makes me wonder if he unwittingly offered to share CSAM with an undercover officer on 5/14/2020, or something along those lines. What's more curious is that on 5/13/2020 (the day before that charge), KAK supposedly posted that backdated Vegas job starting on 2/12/2017 (MOO, since I don't think I can link that). I wonder what was happening in May 2020, just three months before he was arrested.

Thought he was in the clear...back to old tricks? It is very odd

 

[Trebor5591]

the river looks fairly shallow in the recent picture, but would something really stay in one place in it for years- doesn't it have highs and lows? I have trouble imagining a weapon (unless it was a canon) staying anywhere in the river bed for that long. Am I wrong?

I can't imagine things made of metal such as guns and knives would travel very far along a riverbed, if at all. MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Back on 8/19/2020, the court granted a motion to seal, issued a warrant for KAK's arrest, and he was taken into custody. The next day it was unsealed. I'm not any kind of expert on court procedures, but I'm going to assume that a court will not grant a motion to seal without very good reason, as this is in direct relation to the first amendment, FOIA, and all that jazz. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

We do not know why ISP took custody of KAK or why his court files were sealed again this month (he was taken into ISP custody on 8/19/2022, two years to the day he was arrested, by chance), this time for half a day, but IMO, it was with good reason, likely to protect a case. Maybe KAK's CSAM case, or the largest CSAM investigation in Indian history, or Delphi, or something unknown. Clearly KAK is in negotiations, but that's all we know. But we DO know all this is true because it's right there in the court records.

We also know tips about a_shots are to go to the A&L tip line, per ISP. We know a_shots was in communications with L, per the interviews, BP, and KG. We also know that a_shots was traced back to the Peru house and KAK's devices, per affidavit.

These are things we know, even if we regard the 2020 interview as LE trickery, or the MS podcast as bogus, or KAK as a liar. There is a connection between L and a_shots, and there's a connection between a_shots and KAK. It's clear a_shots was catfishing L and L ended up dead.

I suppose only time will tell if KAK or anyone with access to the a_shots account is invoved and this is all related.

Perfectly expressed.

 

[sunshineray]

I can't imagine things made of metal such as guns and knives would travel very far along a riverbed, if at all. MOO

I guess it would depend on rainfall and flooding, water is a powerful force.

 

[sunshineray]

I don't completely understand filings in the court site so I'm puzzled why someone found it necessary to pull the KAK case completely offline. Couldn't they have just kept the case online and then added the motions later that day like they did? Seems like that would have been the better way to do it to avoid attention to the motions.

It's almost like they wanted to create curiosity. (tinfoil hat on)

Do the news reporters have deeper access to the court site or do they only see the public filings like we do?

I'd take a guess that legally, getting a person out of jail from one custodian to another requires a judge and paperwork filed ahead of custody change, not after?

 

[sunshineray]

so if these teams are really LE ..only if
what can they be looking for ? cant be a sock or clothes items? digital evidence of the murder ? very far fetched
which in our case .. leaves one thing only...weapons

In another case I followed, items were but into a bucket with cement and then dumped in water. I suppose that way almost anything would sink and stayed sunk...generally speaking.

 

[justtrish]

I'd say if KAK has first hand knowledge of the murders and it's in the news or in the court documents that he's working on a deal or "negotiations" and then info was leaked that he was released to ISP and then returned and now ISP is searching a river possibly in connection with the previous info.. if I was connected to KAK and had anything to do with the crime, I'd be feeling very antsy about now. I'd say they are watching his daddy like a hawk and if this is connected at all, we will find out soon.

 

[curiousLR]

Court filings, river search indicate potential movement in Delphi probe

INDIANAPOLIS — A pair of court filings and a search of the Wabash River in Peru may indicate movement in the probe of the murders of two girls in Delphi in the winter of 2017, according to a retire…

fox59.com

INDIANAPOLIS — A pair of court filings and a search of the Wabash River in Peru may indicate movement in the probe of the murders of two girls in Delphi in the winter of 2017, according to a retired veteran police investigator.

”All those things happening at the same time certainly is an indication that there’s further investigation going on and obviously they’re looking for something,” said former IPD Deputy Chief Robert Turner, currently an attorney in private practice. ”A police officer just can’t go to a suspect or defendant that’s in jail without getting the clearance of the defense attorney.”

<snip>

“I was a narcotics investigator for many years and I was taken on a lot of road trips,” said Turner as he recalled the defendants who sought to leave jail for a few hours to trade information with detectives or lead them to evidence.

”It may be that that person has something that he can show you but may not be able to tell you where it is, how you can locate it. Or he may have to explain to you what it is once he tells you where it is. There’s obviously information that he has that he cannot import to you in jail, that you need him out and he’s gonna assist you somehow to locate something that identifies something or explains something.”

<snip>

Turner said a search so soon after investigators take custody of a defendant could indicate that information crucial to the case was exchanged.

”It has to be an important case for the detective to take those extraordinary steps to work with someone like that and obviously there has to be something that that detective is offering to that person who is cooperating,” said Turner. ”In most of the cases the person is sincere and there’s something that that person is trying to earn or some benefit that person wants from you.”

<snip>

”What currently seems to be the focus are the Klines,” said Cain, “and we think that seems fair given that you have an online predator communicating with one of the girls in the lead up to her murder in that she by all accounts wanted to meet with.”

If you watch the news report itself it's interesting to hear the reporter state that what he knows "off the record" he can't say so all he can do is share the court papers. He knew something more and I think that spoke volumes about this all being related. Imoo of course.

 

[Marzipan]

I’m pretty sure the answers to this question is NO but I’ll ask anyway. Do we have any idea whether or not ISP LE brought KAK along with them on this river search? And if they didn’t, what would be the point of transferring custody of KAK to ISP?

 

[MassGuy]

If you watch the news report itself it's interesting to hear the reporter state that what he knows "off the record" he can't say so all he can do is share the court papers. He knew something more and I think that spoke volumes about this all being related. Imoo of course.

Oh yeah, these reporters, at least the good ones, always know way more than they report. I buy that.

 

[MassGuy]

I’m pretty sure the answers to this question is NO but I’ll ask anyway. Do we have any idea whether or not ISP LE brought KAK along with them on this river search? And if they didn’t, what would be the point of transferring custody of KAK to ISP?

We don't know one way or the other, but I think that's a good possibility. They seem to have needed him for something, and evidence recovery sounds right to me.

It's also possible that the purpose of the transfer was simply to reinterview him, and it wasn't necessary for him to travel to the river. I still think it's likely he was brought there though.

 

[FromGermany1]

Information from the MS podcast seems to indicate that ISP was searching in the Wabash for a few days prior to Aug 23 when they became aware of it.
If KAK was taken into custody on Aug 19 and on Aug 22 his attorney filed motions indicating they had entered into negotiations, to me, that means they found something…somewhere…that was significant enough for the prosecutor to feel like it was worth negotiating about. I don’t see negotiating for things you MIGHT find.

Maybe, LE began to search, but needed more detailed information from KAK, in addition to something, he already had admitted.
It's exciting, that there is some development coming (hopefully).

 

[raja]

New info last week first was KK googled Marathon in Delphi the day of the murders. We then know ISP took KK out of jail and returned him. Then we learn a river search under a bridge happened following that. IMHO these dots line up with KK picking someone up at the Marathon the day of the murders and then driving to the bridge where that someone disposed of the murder weapon. Just my thoughts from info from last week.