Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #92

[Inthedetails]

The timeline does not seem to allow for the killer to have much time abducting and then killing to young girls.

Yet, it happened. I think he had it planned out.

jmo

 

[TTF14]

The Shack is on Netflix here in the U.K I don’t know if it’s on in the U.S region too. It is a puzzler why it was mentioned and it’s significance.

I saw in another location that it was on TV Sunday night so it could have been just fresh in his head....maybe he had just watched it the night before. I did not check the local listings to see if that was true .

 

[MistyWaters]

I'd like to share some stuff which I hope clears up what we're talking about re: the old department of social services office where LE say a vehicle was parked on Feb. 13th, 2017. A witness stated early on that she saw a white pickup parked there, she was on her way into Delphi for lunch and saw it parked there. My hunch is this witness was driving on County Road (C.R.) 300, and drove right past it. The Andersons grain terminal property is right across C.R. 300, there are some railroad sidings, and a cluster of buildings spread across a large property.

The DSS building was abandoned at the time of the murders. There's a possibility there was no activity at Andersons that day, considering the time of year, and I checked their schedule shortly after the murders and there was nothing scheduled for that day, if memory serves.

A YouTube user posted this great video of their drive from Indy to the spot where A&L were dropped off. Posted Oct. 30th, 2016. Looks to me like the video was taken weeks prior to being posted. It's the best video I've found which shows how to get to the bridge from route IN 25, this person would have been northbound. I was southbound when I visited in 2017, but once I got off of that highway it's the same route.

1. At about 3:50, we see the south end of the Andersons complex, with some rail cars parked on one of the sidings. Driver turns right, then the low-slung DSS building in question comes into view. I included a screen grab with a line drawn on it below for reference. I've suspected BG may have parked at that building for a while now, after thinking he may have parked at the cemetery. At any rate, when the building was still there, it would have been easy to conceal a vehicle from view from IN 25, my guess is BG parked on the C.R. 300 side of the building, not on the south side, between the building and the trail.

2. The bridge in the background is the Freedom Bridge. It's part of the trail network in that part of Delphi/Deer Creek Township. Technically, the trail which leads to the Monon High Bridge (MHB) starts right there at the Freedom Bridge, goes through a heavily wooded area which is the old Monon Railroad right-of-way, to the trailhead (which is by the old parking area, which could park maybe 3 vehicles), then it continues on to the MHB. The trail by the trailhead, and on to the bridge, is on private property. The Girard reserve adjacent to it, which has a trail which goes down to the creek's edge, is public property.

The main trail in question was terribly overgrown until about 2004, when a local group was formed to clean up and preserve the trail and the MHB.

3. At the turn we see the Freedom Bridge, the trail, etc. I was wrong in an earlier thread, the drive from the DSS building to the drop-off point for A&L takes approximately one minute, according to this video:

4. Note how peaceful and quiet it is along 300. What did I hear out there? Crickets. Bugs. A train goose the horn for a crossing in town on the Norfolk Southern line through there.

5. The screen grab shows the DSS building on the right, the Freedom Bridge behind it, and I drew a line to show the trail in reference to those two subjects.

Again, just to iterate, the DSS building is no longer standing.

Thanks very much for sharing this detailed description of the parking location!

 

[distracted]

By all accounts, both drawings were done in 2017, and are based on the the account of 2 different eyewitnesses.

The relevant drawing made public on Monday is not an age progression of the suspect, and it's also not an update of the artist's 2/17/17 drawing. It's his same (now 26 month old) never before seen drawing.

Are you proposing the eyewitness told the artist "this is what I think the man I saw today will look like 5 years from now" (or what I think he looked like 5 years earlier)? That makes no sense to me. I disagree that the two artist sketches are drawing of the suspect at different ages.

Clearly, the latest message by LE to essentially disregard the drawing published 2 years ago, was not the message Police Supt Carter gave at the presser when he told the public to consider the first sketch a secondary resource, use the newly unveiled sketch as the primary image of the suspect they are seeking.

Mistake or not, I certainly don't fault LE for telling the public to disregard the first sketch -- especially if their investigation changed direction.

Hopeful the new direction will lead to an arrest, and justice for these two girls Libby and Abbey and their families.

MOO

No, that's not what I am proposing. I knew when I wrote this that they were both done at the same time. The first was an FBI composite sketch and the second from a witness.

That said, both sketches have similar facial characteristics. The only true visual we have of the suspect is BG on video and/or photo. The FBI sketch is likely based on a reconstruction of the photo based on what they could see and the other is from a witness's memory. Neither is absolute.

It's my belief that the sketches are of the same person. The FBI artist thought the man to be older than the witness's account. They all must have thought he was older and thus set aside the witness's sketch. Now they know that not to be the case.

 

[holtzmann]

Yet, it happened. I think he had it planned out.

jmo

2:07 - photo of Abby on the bridge
3:15 - girls stop responding to their phone

(I think I have the times approximately right, from what I remember.) This is a tight turnaround but not implausible. I think he knew what he was going to do that day. Not an impulse. JMO.

 

[Inthedetails]

I can’t stop thinking about the press conference Monday. It was announced days earlier so one would think it would be carefully planned and scripted down to the T. But the actual press conference turned out to be a hot mess. Was this an act of brilliance? Or a screw up?

Supt Carter is the head of ISP. He's THE guy. But he could barely contain his – what – rage? Rage is what I sensed. Sure, the perp is a horrible person, of course. But get it together, man, you’re a professional! No matter what is going on behind the scenes that we are not privy to, Carter was supposed to relay critical information to the public. I am sure his emotion was real, I am not doubting that, but did he allow his emotion to overrun and obfuscate the press conference on purpose? Did they release misleading information about the vehicle and confuse the public about the sketches on purpose? I can’t get my head around that press conference which was like nothing I’ve ever seen.

I think he purposely showed his rage, to appear as an angry authority figure, yet who is tender and thoughtful about the victims and their families. I think he was playing up good/evil. My hunch is they profiled the perp and figured that approach would flush him out of the weeds (or inspire a family member/friend to come forward).

I still think the press conference was scripted with a specific purpose....but sure can't understand why it wasn't made clear that Sketch #1 is now dismissed. Nobody got that message from the press conference, imo.

jmo

 

[gregjrichards]

I can’t stop thinking about the press conference Monday. It was announced days earlier so one would think it would be carefully planned and scripted down to the T. But the actual press conference turned out to be a hot mess. Was this an act of brilliance? Or a screw up?

Supt Carter is the head of ISP. He's THE guy. But he could barely contain his – what – rage? Rage is what I sensed. Sure, the perp is a horrible person, of course. But get it together, man, you’re a professional! No matter what is going on behind the scenes that we are not privy to, Carter was supposed to relay critical information to the public. I am sure his emotion was real, I am not doubting that, but did he allow his emotion to overrun and obfuscate the press conference on purpose? Did they release misleading information about the vehicle and confuse the public about the sketches on purpose? I can’t get my head around that press conference which was like nothing I’ve ever seen.

There was nothing wrong with the way the Superintendent delivering his message on Monday. He did a far better job than the Prosecutor on the second anniversary press conference that was a disaster and waste of time in my opinion. Superintendent Carter knows the full extent of what this monster has done, he can’t unsee the horrific crime scene and he is angry he has evaded capture for over two years despite there best efforts.

Can we please stop criticising Superintendent Carter and law enforcement please there job is hard enough as it is.

 

[MizStery]

BG looks way overdressed. Then compare him with what the girls were wearing and he still looks like he has on many more layers than they did.

The layered clothing could also imply at farm, construction or industrial background.

The fact BG was so overdressed given the unseasonably nice day in February 2017 was discussed very early on in the treads. Several posters thought there was a possibility that he might be employed at the DELPHI Meat Processing Plant of the Indiana Packers.

MOO

 

[holtzmann]

Police really need us to tip them off that the killer could have seen their snapchats and hightailed it down there?

No, I'm explaining the rules of this thread, which are that it's against them to publicly sleuth entities and people who have not been named in the case by LE, which you seem to be implying by your choice of link in this case.

 

[Falling Down]

Thank you for sharing this..... This also says the girls were found 50 feet from Deer Creek, 1/2 mile East from the Bridge.....moo

They were found just under 3/8 of a mile from the NW end, and about 500 or so feet from the SE end.

JMO

 

[Jax49]

Was it ever proven they crossed the creek, instead of being forced back over the bridge?

I do believe they crossed the creek, just wondering if proof was offered. I guess my question is, did LE say it?

 

[Inthedetails]

I've been thinking about the unibomber and his brother, who turned him in. I listened to a fascinating interview with the brother who described the process that he went through. First was the inkling, the hint of recognition that his brother had some similarities to the perp. Then these were discounted as a bit crazy. But then the nagging, more denial,... until finally the brother hunted down some old writings by his brother. Comparing the writings, he knew pretty surely that his brother was the unibomber. But then he realized he had to tell his mother, ... Nevertheless made the call to authorities and turned his brother in.

Maybe BG has a family member who is going through something similar right now. I hope they make the call.

Very good insight. It's not easy to turn in someone or face the reality that you simply must do that. Your own life changes forever and it's HARD. Thanks for that reminder that it is difficult and not necessarily a quick decision to make. Yet, I think most people would do the right thing...and we're certainly counting on that in this case.

Someone else could be killed by this person. To keep others safe and protected, he has to be turned in, either by himself or someone else.

jmo

 

[CrimeDawg123]

There was nothing wrong with the way the Superintendent delivering his message on Monday. He did a far better job than the Prosecutor on the second anniversary press conference that was a disaster and waste of time in my opinion. Superintendent Carter knows the full extent of what this monster has done, he can’t unsee the horrific crime scene and he is angry he has evaded capture for over two years despite there best efforts.

Can we please stop criticising Superintendent Carter and law enforcement please there job is hard enough as it is.

I quite clearly asked if it was brilliance or a screw up. I think that is an honest question at this point in time, especially given that ISP has announced 2 or 3 corrections to the press conference. If you take my post as criticism, I am sorry about that. In my view it's an appropriate question. Please notify mods if you disagree and they can delete.

 

[Falling Down]

The timeline does not seem to allow for the killer to have much time abducting and then killing to young girls.

It's a tight timeline. My guess is they were deceased within 20 minutes or so of the "down the hill" part of the recording.

He gets on the bridge, walks over the bridge, abducts the girls, forces them to the spot where he killed them, kills them, then slips away. The variables all had to line up perfectly for him, had to be in his favor.

I think he had this timed down to the minute, had done dry runs in the past. I'd guess he uses various electronic devices in order to pull off a a set of crimes like this. Nice watch. A GPS. Etc.

JMO

 

[swedeheart]

Si

Shouldn't that have been where police started? Youth pastor charged with child solicitation in Randolph County

sorry I always have to ask, but can I get a synopsis? Can’t view from eu. Thanks.

 

[kc1023]

I trust the good folks at WS that do this sort of thing are checking the arrest intakes in the area or whatever you call that? I don't know how to do that nor have I seen anything I'm trying to hint at but just wondering/hoping someone that knows what they are doing is doing that?

 

[sunsetbeach]

I’m starting to wonder if someone had influence over NOT releasing the original sketch. Maybe someone in LE recognized him in Feb 2017 and tried to put a lid on it and steer the investigation in another direction?

If I was BP or MP I would be livid! Two years of wasted time looking for the wrong man.
MP has at least one LE friend in Delphi that he has mentioned, so I’m surprised that friend never “leaked” that info to him. Maybe he didn’t know?

My personal opinion on the 2 weeks is because LE wants that time for the Patty’s and AW as a cooling down period. I also think the raw emotion from Carter was because he knows they screwed up BIG time.

To be honest, I can’t wait for them to speak. They need to get it off their chest. Stress can cause illnesses. My heart goes out to them.

MOO

 

[Crazy4having3]

I think the existence of the 2 sketches makes perfect sense as does the elimination of the first one.
I believe sketch #1 was based solely on the pictures of BG. I mean, it looks spot on before you start really dissecting it. Even then, I still see sketch #1 as being more accurate. So, it makes sense that sketch #2, based on an eye witness account wasn't given credence since IMO it doesn't look like the photo at all.
I now believe that they are working with Parabon and when they got results, it matched sketch #2 so closely that they had no choice to eliminate sketch #1 and start focusing on sketch #2.
So, I don't blame LE at all. They went with what made the most sense at the time. Based on how different BG looks in the pictures/video (at least to me) as compared to sketch #2, he deliberately made choices to conceal disguise/conceal his identity.

 

[Love Never Fails]

The fact BG was so overdressed given the unseasonably nice day in February 2017 was discussed very early on in the treads. Several posters thought there was a possibility that he might be employed at the DELPHI Meat Processing Plant of the Indiana Packers.

MOO

Seriously, 40 degrees in Indiana is cold. I live here. The young people wear shorts and tees because they are young and have good circulation. You put a 40 year old on that bridge and they will dress warmly.

However, he was dressed for the kill, IMO. He had to know he needed his tools or change of clothes or disguise or whatever before he left home that day. So we are talking about a younger man who went prepared.

Also, for two years a lot of us had the impression this was a transient or day laborer from the meat packing plant. When I saw Carter’s anger in the pc, I am now of the opinion this may be a young professional with ties to Delphi and Carter is furious they were duped by him.

 

[TTF14]

Does anyone know if either of the girls attended the DUMC youth ministry? This is the same church where the vigil was held. I would have hoped that police would have already ruled out anyone who cold have seen their snapchats, but obviously we can tell how religious the people in charge of this investigation are which makes me fear that the those who share the police religious believes may not be investigated as properly as they should have been. Moo.

I was wondering this as well. I get the impression they probably have a huge youth ministry, and if they were involved in that and had a lot of Snapchat friends from there, including any adult volunteers, parents, etc., a lot of people could have been following their snaps that day.