GUILTY IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #92

[Deleted member 117884]

Original sketch vs Recent sketch. ?? Unless they release another sketch!? It's very confusing!

Discarded Sketch vs. Newly-Released Sketch?

(It's hard because my mind associates the Discarded Sketch as BG. I almost feel like we are looking for someone other than BG. I know that's not the case, but my tiny brain is slow at adjusting.)

jmo

 

[teeandcee]

You can always ask. IMO

I did and will share if I can.

 

[TL4S]

A belt

This is where I'm coming from. I don't think the information we're aware of necessarily points to this being planned. If he saw them dropped off, he likely had enough stuff on his person or in his vehicle to carry it out, especially if he had a weapon. My friend specifically carries a pistol in his truck because he's hit several deer on the road and now wants the means to dispatch one in such a case.

It's not to say that the murders were NOT planned. We just don't know.

 

[ocgrad]

One of the early media reports -

“Two bodies were found by volunteers on Tuesday less than a mile from where the girls were originally dropped off. The bodies were found on private property, about 50 feet from the shore of Deer Creek. Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.”
2 bodies found positively ID'd as missing teens

But a year later, BP mentions the two deer. Does that follow or dismiss the first report, don’t know.

“He saw something. He could not figure out what it was. There were two deer standing up there. As he looked up to see what it was, that is when he saw them,” said Libby’s grandma, Becky Patty.”
Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens

But the footprints were never said to be in the creekbank. Their bodies were found not far from a small trail that was visible in some of the footage.

 

[ocgrad]

It is possible there are two culprits, maybe one ahead of the group on bridge. It isn't easy for one man to overpower two girls. Did PE make clear there is only one murderer? Seems that's what LE said during PC.

One murderer does not rule out accomplice. It has never been said he acted alone.

 

[Plo_Koon]

Of course it's unrealistic and it's far more likely they were praying with the guy than investigating him. I'm just saying what I would do if I was in charge, send the boys right down to clear the youth ministers first because in my opinion only those guys are the most likely of anyone in town to be ****** up in the head! I do think it's realistic to expect that police were competent enough to vet everyone who couldve seen their snapchat post though don't you?

BBM, that's quite a broad brush you used to paint all those people with, MOO.

 

[raja]

If sketch of younger PIO was done 2 days after and it was dismissed I would have to surmise the clothing on that PIO did not match BG.

 

[Deleted member 117884]

If sketch of younger PIO was done 2 days after and it was dismissed I would have to surmise the clothing on that PIO did not match BG.

Interesting idea! If the witness was describing BG after he committed the crime, he might have had different clothing than what he was wearing in the video.

jmo

 

[Plo_Koon]

I’ll save you the trouble.

ISP: First Delphi sketch is not POI in murders

It interesting how it’s worded “the first sketch - released two years ago - is not a person of interest at this time.”........it’s the first sketch that’s not the POI at this time, not the person in the first sketch.

Thank you! Up to my neck in work here so that was much quicker than the speed I would have moved at.

 

[MuddyTires]

I agree to a certain extent. But with all of the religious implications in the PC, as well as Carter saying how the killer left the girls is not how they are in Heaven, it makes me wonder if the motive didn't have to do with a perceived relationship between the girls. They were best friends who were always together-my BFF and I were that same at that age, and both of us were asked by our parents if we were in a relationship. We weren't, we've just always been very close, but I could see why people would think that.

I am not saying this is the case, at all, but the references in the PC to religion, as well as seeming to be sure the BG is an upstanding member of the community in some way, is sticking with me. JMO

I'm sorry, I'm not meaning to single you out because lots of people are saying the same thing, but I'm trying to understand why folks keep focusing on a religion angle with the PC?

There were just under 1,000 words spoken at the press conference. Only two sentences, about 60 words, really have any potential religious connection, and those sentences were as much if not more so about appealing to conscience and guilt than religion. Plus, the reference to the Shack movie - it's just as likely, if not more likely, that it was just something that struck a cord for Carter when he saw the movie and thought about the case.

I recently watched a movie called The Shack and there's also a book that talks so well about evil, about death and about eternity. To the murderer I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left and I can assure you that how you left them in that woods is not, is not what they are experiencing today.

 

[ocgrad]

In the beginning, they only had one sketch, but they did not release it. Five months later, they created a second sketch and released it immediately. Now, two years later, they've decided to discount the sketch that was released and reveal the different, earlier sketch that hadn't been released. And we're supposed to believe them when they tell us this is the killer, even though for two years they basically sold the other sketch as depicting the killer.

Who really knows how many sketches they have? The artist said he does a different sketch for each witness and does not do composites. They could have several. Since he did not do the one from July 2017 and it was said to be a composite I wonder if it was partially generated by some software the FBI used using the video. Perhaps they had more of a lead in the investigation and insisted on using that sketch. Just a thought.

 

[apples12]

This is where I'm coming from. I don't think the information we're aware of necessarily points to this being planned. If he saw them dropped off, he likely had enough stuff on his person or in his vehicle to carry it out, especially if he had a weapon. My friend specifically carries a pistol in his truck because he's hit several deer on the road and now wants the means to dispatch one in such a case.

It's not to say that the murders were NOT planned. We just don't know.

What if Libby and Abby trusted this person... and the suspect had planned a convincing ruse to get the girls “down the hill”. He would have had to have planned the kill in order to subdue both girls when they were far enough off the trail, ultimately taking them by surprise, as I fear he will do to us and LE. MOO the new recording does not sound as menacing as it does authoritarian. The use of the phrase “guys” strikes me as being an attempt to enlist their cooperation

 

[kkdj]

It is possible there are two culprits, maybe one ahead of the group on bridge. It isn't easy for one man to overpower two girls. Did PE make clear there is only one murderer? Seems that's what LE said during PC.

I had the impression there was just one, but that he has told someone.

 

[MsBetsy]

Of course it's unrealistic and it's far more likely they were praying with the guy than investigating him. I'm just saying what I would do if I was in charge, send the boys right down to clear the youth ministers first because in my opinion only those guys are the most likely of anyone in town to be ****** up in the head! I do think it's realistic to expect that police were competent enough to vet everyone who couldve seen their snapchat post though don't you?

I meant that it's unrealistic that the church is the first place they would run.
I'm not sure what snap-chat post you are referring to.

 

[kkdj]

What if Libby and Abby trusted this person... and the suspect had planned a convincing ruse to get the girls “down the hill”. He would have had to have planned the kill in order to subdue both girls when they were far enough off the trail, ultimately taking them by surprise, as I fear he will do to us and LE. MOO the new recording does not sound as menacing as it does authoritarian. The use of the phrase “guys” strikes me as being an attempt to enlist their cooperation

I picture a gun showing the way....guys...this way. He's in total control.

 

[fred&edna]

Interesting idea! If the witness was describing BG after he committed the crime, he might have had different clothing than what he was wearing in the video.

jmo

Libby recorded images of the first, original, older guy looking-sketch... right??

So, if he is not the POI... Did she just record him "randomly"... Not out of fear?

Wonder when appearance change occurred at time of murders? Or did it?

Brain cramping here.

 

[kkdj]

Or to have time to "display" them.



I don't know....I'm really re-thinking everything and even going back to some of my original ideas. In the beginning I thought a 20-something perp and also that he took them to a shack or out-building and later brought them to the location where they were found. I'm back at that train of thought....might not be the right train, I know!

jmo

Same here.

 

[katydid23]

I hear ya, but I'm re-thinking scenarios I previously dismissed.

If the girls were abducted in a car, they also could have been brought back and forced to walk to the location as carrying bodies is difficult.

Not saying that happened, but I'm putting it back on my list of possibilities, though not at the top of the list. It opens up some time for the killer and it gets the girls on the other side of the river without them having to walk across it. Has it been confirmed the girls actually entered the river, or just that they were found on the opposite side?

jmo

It is just really hard for me to believe he would have the girls safely tucked away in his car, and then he'd bring them back to that same park to dispose of them. He could have driven to a remote area and had a lot more time and privacy. JMO

 

[cluciano63]

Ok now I am lost. Thought they said there is only ONE man, but to ignore the version of him released two years ago. NOT that they are two men, one a suspect, one not?

 

[MistyWaters]

Not sure why in the very beginning of all this that they didn't just release both sketches and just say "we are looking for "these" individuals".

Now 2 years later....we are supposed to ignore the 1st sketch and move on to another that they've had this entire time.

I understand the frustration. Who knows, LE could have a dozen or more POIs, each potential witness remembering a description of a slightly different person. In other cases, eye witnesses actually see the suspect associated with committing the crime as it happened. But in this case, as no foul play was suspected until after the bodies were found therefore any sightings of this character mustn’t not have raised undue alarm at the time.

After that, potential witnesses came forth one or more days later thinking they might’ve sighted someone who committed the murders. But it’s also possible they noticed someone who they didn’t know who was entirely innocent. If their memory and the resulting sketch was not 100% accurate, seeking the likeness of someone who does not exist will obviously prove unsuccessful.

My grumble is the high level of confidence LE appeared to have in the accuracy of the first sketch.