Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #92

[Jax49]

60 miles northwest of Delphi? Saw him walking? On a road? I just got a vibe here from that old article that the witness who worked with the FBI sketch artist might be an Indiana state trooper... someone who would have patrol training to notice and remember some guy walking along a road...

Saw him NEAR Delphi, which is about 60 miles from Indy.

 

[holtzmann]

IMO if this murder was committed by someone who snapped or lost control on impulse, we would have seen far more concrete evidence or mistakes made by the killer by now.

The terrain and bridge are treacherous. People who commit unplanned acts of violence are far more prone to leaving evidence behind, simply because they're not prepared to deal with a clean-up. Perps get sloppy, they leave fingerprints or DNA behind, they lack the resources to deal with hiding blood or signs of a struggle.

The only reason we have what we DO have on this guy is that Libby was suspicious and started recording. (I don't know what LE has, they may have more, but I'm just working off of what we know.)

We're talking about broad daylight in the middle of a weekday when the trail was populated and school was out of session. I know this seems like a risk to a lot of people and that's valid, but consider that despite the circumstances, we have almost nothing to go on.

That doesn't sound like an unplanned loss of control. BG had to have planned at least some part of what he was going to do, and targeted where he was going to do it. Regardless of how he decided upon Abby and Libby or found them at that location at that time, he was already prepared to commit violence.

 

[MsBetsy]

60 miles northwest of Delphi? Saw him walking? On a road? I just got a vibe here from that old article that the witness who worked with the FBI sketch artist might be an Indiana state trooper... someone who would have patrol training to notice and remember some guy walking along a road...

Yeah, I never realized that the guy was that far away from the crime scene.
I wonder what he was doing that made him look suspicious?
I wouldn't think just walking down the highway would be enough. Imo

 

[kc1023]

As to the weather, it's a running joke here in the good ol' Hoosier state that we can have 4 seasons of weather in one day.

Yeah, the girls were lightly dressed. Kids do that as soon as it's the slightest bit warmer than the usual cold, dreary winter. I think the girls were probably chilly.

As for BG, I don't find him to be overdressed at all. He probably wears some of those layers around the house because people keep the heat low as it gets quite pricey in the winter to keep your house toasty warm here.

That particular day, I had to run some errands and put on my big winter coat not realizing it was "warm" out.

40 degrees in February seems a lot "warmer" than 40 degrees in October here - meaning you'd likely find the opposite result in which they'd be extra bundled up in their new fall/winter coats and snazzy boots on a 40 degree day in October.

jmo

 

[dixiegirl1035]

• They are not the same person
• The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation

July 2017
"...Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said the portrait was drawn by an FBI sketch artist and was based on "recent information" from a witness who saw the suspect about the time of German and Williams' deaths.

"It relates to a dialogue between a witness and a sketch artist," he said. "That’s based upon an actual, real situation."..."

*

Does LE believe that the witness who worked with the FBI sketch artist resulting in sketch#1 intentionally misled the investigation?

That is what is so confusing to me. They said the first person was the bridge guy and was the suspect. Now they are saying the second one is the bridge guy and it's the suspect. That is what is so confusing because they say that it's a different person, not that the sketch was incorrect. I'm so confused.

 

[gregjrichards]

So far they’ve received over 1000 tips. I’m sure that number has grown by quite a bit at this point.

They’ll take what they can get, as long as they aren’t “social media photo comparisons.”

Unfortunately, I think that’s going to be the vast majority of the tips they receive.

It only takes one quality tip though, which is what they’re banking on.


The BEST way to submit a #DelphiMurders tip is by email to: [email protected]

Include specific info. All tips are reviewed. If more info is needed you’ll be contacted by return email or # if provided with your tip. Please, no social media photo comparisons!!

Indiana State Police on Twitter

Thank you MassGuy for posting this. Just a reminder everyone please do not discuss tips you have submitted. BG could be reading here anonymously and we don’t want to give him the heads up. Many thanks to all of you for your posts, analysis and news.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I'm wondering if they got new information that made them change the direction of their focus because they had a new officer look at the file. When I have watched true crime cases on TV, even years-long cold cases (I know this isn't a cold case), often times the thing that breaks them is a new person with fresh eyes taking a look at the file. I wonder if someone even brand new to the police force was asked to take a look at see what they think and they noticed something that no one else had or others had looked at it a different way. Could be an error in someone's story or an issue with an alibi, etc. Just MOO

Heading off to work and will have to catch up on everything later, but my last thought before leaving is just again how incredibly tight of a timeline the crime had to have happened in. I imagine BG being there before the girls, maybe seeing them and wanting to attack them, but waiting until no one else was around because there were people there that day. I hike solo often, so I don't find it odd that people hike there, even alone, but I admit I was surprised to hear just how many people were at the trails in the middle of a Monday.

The timing for BG would have had to have been perfect and probably quite lucky (in his mind). Perhaps he had even witnessed other people he was considering attacking but there was always someone else around.

I agree about the fresh eyes. Seemingly minor details that become huge, interviews that left something unanswered in hindsight.

 

[Jax49]

I saw a picture of the room in which the press conference was held. There was a huge banner with various terms for God on it, such as: savior, deliverer, etc. There was also a smaller banner with a symbol on it almost like curved crosses. Are these usually in that room, or were they sending a seriously religious message? Will try to find the picture.

ETA here is the link Relatives of slain teen say double-killing will be solved

I'm still catching up so someone may have already mentioned that article is about an earlier press conference. One which was held in a local church.

Relatives of slain teen say double-killing will be solved

 

[they'll get you]

Deleted

 

[Area52]

Yeah, I never realized that the guy was that far away from the crime scene.
I wonder what he was doing that made him look suspicious?
I wouldn't think just walking down the highway would be enough. Imo

The article stated Delphi, 60 miles from Indianapolis. Not 60 miles from Delphi. Punctuation is your friend!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

60 miles northwest of Delphi? Saw him walking? On a road? I just got a vibe here from that old article that the witness who worked with the FBI sketch artist might be an Indiana state trooper... someone who would have patrol training to notice and remember some guy walking along a road...

"...man walking near Delphi, about 60 miles (100 kilometers) northwest of Indianapolis, ..." = the town of Delphi is 60 miles Northwest of Indianapolis

Moo

 

[Jax49]

Saw him NEAR Delphi, which is about 60 miles from Indy.

Bump. He was seen near Delphi. Not 60 miles away.

ETA: "near Delphi, about 60 miles (100 kilometers) northwest of Indianapolis"

 

[dixiegirl1035]

The threads on this case go back over 2 years. Things have happened in the past that have caused the moderators to ask that geo caching not be discussed on this thread. Honestly, I don't recall what the issue was but that's not important. What is important is that it's not to be discussed. You can always take the discussion to private message if you like.

This may give you a better review of why we are not allowed to talk about it previously and probably now.

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #27

 

[MsBetsy]

I have read on some other places on the web that there is some chatter among some in the town about a particular youth minister (either was at one time or still is). I have no way to verify the veracity of those claims, so I won't mention names, but do you think it seems plausible that the guy who committed this crime could have been a youth minister at some point? It could be local people just throwing shots in the dark, but it does make me wonder if the religious movie references and other religious language are aimed at that end. That theory does seem interesting since the "guys" comment from BG sounded like somebody comfortable talking to kids the age of Abby and Libby. But ... I have no idea.

I don't think Carter's reference to a movie with religious themes necessarily means the suspect is active in the church or even religious.
It's a very common topic, and since he was talking about having a conscience, I think it was said more to get a reaction from the killer or from those around him who may know what he has done.
Maybe he was trying to get the killer to feel some guilt, or at least fear. Fear, mixed with a little guilt, is a very strong emotion, and the people around the killer are bound to notice a change of behavior.
I don't think the use of the word guys means anything, really, since it's so commonly used.
And I don't think he sounded like he works with kids, there just isn't enough audio to be convincing.
I really don't have a strong feeling about what this guy may do for a living. Others have suggested he may work in a school, be affiliated with a church or LE, or somehow know the family. There are many possibilities. Imo

 

[cody22]

I am now "sleuthing" for a suspect with a big red circular X tattoo on his face.....LOL !....moo

 

[GA_Peach]

When you take a test people often say you should go with your first guess if you don't know the answer. That being said, does anyone here know WHY the police searched the house on Bicycle Bridge Rd so early in the investigation?

It's interesting that you mention Bicycle Bridge Road. I have been thinking a lot about that since Monday's PC. I wonder why that location was relevant.

Wow, he looks much more like sketch #2 in some frames, clearly a younger guy 20s - mid 30s.

It's the power of association. When I saw the first sketch of BG, I thought that is exactly how he looked in the video. When I saw the second sketch, I did not think that. However, after rewatching the video with the second sketch in my mind, I can see it. It is strange how the mind works.

Fresh thoughts this morning.

I wish I knew what caused LE to say that sketch #2 is definitely the face of the man on the bridge, and that he for certain is the killer. I just can't get away from the fact that they pivoted from "suspect" to "murderer."

I know I'm harping on it a lot, but that's a big difference in legal terminology that does change the approach. I don't know how else to explain it. There are procedures for dealing with suspects who have not been formally charged, even if circumstantial evidence makes them likely perpetrators.

To have police name someone a murderer after two years of ducking indicates to me that they have something that sealed the deal.

100% all of this. I cannot put my finger on it, but this is exactly what I am thinking.

Why all of a sudden is LE willing to put a stake in the ground and definitively say that this sketch is BG, that BG is the girls' killer, that there is one voice on the audio file, and that he is hiding in plain sight/is from Delphi? Those are some bold statements. This, of course, happens against the background of LE looking in all of the wrong places and for the wrong person for the past 2+ years. I cannot fathom LE putting all of their eggs in one basket without something significant that points them in this direction. There has to be something, and that something has to be monumental.

 

[MsBetsy]

Bump. He was seen near Delphi. Not 60 miles away.

ETA: "near Delphi, about 60 miles (100 kilometers) northwest of Indianapolis"

Oh, ok. So we don't really know exactly how close or far he was to the crime scene or any part of the trail. Imo

 

[Cryptic]

I also love the cold and hate sweating. So to me, BG looks way overdressed. Then compare him with what the girls were wearing and he still looks like he has on many more layers than they did.

I once worked at an industrial plant in the midwest. A lot of midwest farmers, construction workers and industrial workers wear layered clothing. It was good to err on the side of extra layers when you left home as you could always take stuff off / put it on, but going home to get clothes was hard.

All that aside, I think you are right. BG is over dressed for that time of the day. Your observation might imply that he left his house at an earlier hour and habitually wore extra clothing. The layered clothing could also imply at farm, construction or industrial background.

 

[sun16]

I understand that kids had been hanging out all day at/near the entrance where Libby and Abby were dropped off. But I would imagine that like any park or large area, once you disperse from others and start walking away, it becomes more and more remote. That is what I am picturing in this case. And if people are there to walk or hike, your first thought when you see someone around you is not “they are after me.” However, if BG had been following behind them for a seemingly uncomfortable amount of time — your gut will tell you this — or he started saying things to the girls, I would be concerned. I wonder if being in a larger hike group (4+) would have helped. It is still interesting to me that he would want to take on and kill two people at once. One much easier. I wonder if the girls just froze or did whatever he said. You would tend to think he wouldn’t want a lot of noise. There were other people somewhere in the area around 2-4pm. I am thinking strangulation or beaten on head, tied up, or knife. Although with knife, I imagine there would be screaming. I do not support gun theory as way too much noise (would need at least 2 shots). Sigh.

 

[Jax49]

Oh, ok. So we don't really know exactly how close or far he was to the crime scene or any part of the trail. Imo

Correct. Probably close, but the point I made was he wasn't 60 miles away. That came from someone misreading the statement.

moo