Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #92

[apples12]

Doesn't it seem more likely that he would have narcissistic (as well as psychotic) rather than depressive personality disorder? I think he would have to be incredibly arrogant and confident in himself to do this in broad daylight with 2 victims, especially if he is from this small community and would be easily recognized. I think he has complete lack of empathy and therefore a lack of guilt. I don't think he is concerned with any of this sort of thing referenced in the PC. He killed these girls to fulfill his needs with no regard to anything else.

I appreciate your thoughts. It’s hard and frankly impossible to diagnose him as it could be many different things ...however I see the severity of the mental illness as more than a personality disorder. Major depression with psychotic process is not a personality disorder. That’s why I said “severe mental illness such as...”. In MOO there is some sort of psychotic or delusional thinking process that occurred.

 

[Plo_Koon]

Still new to this. All of what I said is MOO based on what I thought I have read. If I am incorrect, I'm sorry.

No apologies necessary. I wasn't trying to throw shade at you, just trying to clear up my own confusion on the issue. Welcome to WS!

 

[holtzmann]

I hope someday soon to understand how one man kills (chokes perhaps) 2 girls at one time without either girl screaming just a short distance from a public trail in the winter with no foliage and supposed witnesses around the area.

I suspect there was a weapon involved, something that was immediate enough of a threat to make them feel like screaming would only put them in more danger. Either that, or it was over too quickly for screaming to be an option.

Or perhaps there were screams, and they were just mistaken for something else. If the river was active, rushing water can drown out a lot of sound.

 

[holtzmann]

Passive-aggressive comments is what trolling looks like. Care to be specific?

I'm not being passive-aggressive, I'm reiterating a rule of the thread and trying not to be rude and directly call people out. You posted a picture of someone unrelated to this case and asked for thoughts.

My thoughts are that it's against TOS and the rules of this thread to post photos of unrelated and non-specified POIs for comparison.

 

[MsBetsy]

In the book, the protagonist is tormented by all the trauma he has experienced throughout his life. (There's no doubt that the sicko who murdered Abby and Libby also had a trauma-filled life. A spiritually healthy person doesn't kill two young girls.) The protagonist meets God the Father (played by a woman), Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. They teach the protagonist that he can find peace.

Imo, the sheriff believes that Abby's and Libby's killer is tormented by the trauma in his past and current life. The sheriff implied that the killer will only find peace from his torment by returning to God (the theme of The Shack). Returning to God or accepting God will require a confession.

That's exactly what I think. He's comparing him to the victim's father, not the killer who murdered the daughter or the child who was murdered. That's not what the movie is about.
He believes he still has a conscience even though he may have distanced himself from religion and morality.
In other words, relinquishing his power to a higher being is the ultimate freedom and there is still time and a chance for forgiveness. Imo

 

[Plo_Koon]

Hi MsBetsy,

I have no idea. There are some responses to my post upstream indicating how this may not necessarily be the case, that perhaps LE realized the description given was not describing BG, but someone else. So I really don’t know. All I know is it was claimed a witness provided the info for the “secondary” sketch, so whatever that means. Whatever the case, this new sketch has been given precedence.

I read a link earlier that said they don't consider the person in the original sketch to be a POI at this time. I'll try and find the link and edit this post to add it in.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think she


Don't you think that having completely accurate detailed description of crime scene make it impossible for police to separate the false from the authentic information?

For sure, the newly announced location of the suspects car that he drove makes a huge difference also. Prior to that the cemetery seemed to be in the lead.

 

[TL4S]

I suspect there was a weapon involved, something that was immediate enough of a threat to make them feel like screaming would only put them in more danger. Either that, or it was over too quickly for screaming to be an option.

Or perhaps there were screams, and they were just mistaken for something else. If the river was active, rushing water can drown out a lot of sound.

I think you're right about a weapon being used. Plus there's nothing to say they didn't scream and just weren't heard.

 

[PaulaDC]

I hope someday soon to understand how one man kills (chokes perhaps) 2 girls at one time without either girl screaming just a short distance from a public trail in the winter with no foliage and supposed witnesses around the area.

Possibly killed one so quickly the other had so much fear that running was the only thing she could do. Fear tends to make me silent.

 

[FinePrint]

And how could he know whether to abort, as soon as he stepped off the bridge he would have been unable to see the other end. So while he was forcing 2 girls down the hill and across the creek he couldn't have known whether someone had just started across the bridge, whether he was hidden, if he was alone.

And the other point being that it was in February. Everything here is bare from the end of October until the middle of April.

I live on wooded acreage just about 50 miles north of Delphi and right now everything is just starting to bloom but up until about a week ago I could see straight back through the trees as far as the eye can see!

He did not have the cover one would expect he had in a wooded area which completely amazes me that no one saw this. He took great risk in doing this. No doubt!

 

[MsBetsy]

Passive-aggressive comments is what trolling looks like. Care to be specific?

It's pretty straight forward. It's against the rules. Imo

 

[TL4S]

I'm not being passive-aggressive, I'm reiterating a rule of the thread and trying not to be rude and directly call people out. You posted a picture of someone unrelated to this case and asked for thoughts.

My thoughts are that it's against TOS and the rules of this thread to post photos of unrelated and non-specified POIs for comparison.

I think the only troll here is the one who took those two girls under the bridge.

 

[Tbone144]

I suspect there was a weapon involved, something that was immediate enough of a threat to make them feel like screaming would only put them in more danger. Either that, or it was over too quickly for screaming to be an option.

Or perhaps there were screams, and they were just mistaken for something else. If the river was active, rushing water can drown out a lot of sound.

I suspect he tied them and gagged them to keep them from running. Why one didn’t run when the other was being tied...maybe he locked them in one of the buildings/“shacks” as his initial point, have them walk in, lock the door, tie them up and then walk them one by one to the scene tell them he let the other one go.

 

[MistyWaters]

I read a link earlier that said they don't consider the person in the original sketch to be a POI at this time. I'll try and find the link and edit this post to add it in.

I’ll save you the trouble.

ISP: First Delphi sketch is not POI in murders

It interesting how it’s worded “the first sketch - released two years ago - is not a person of interest at this time.”........it’s the first sketch that’s not the POI at this time, not the person in the first sketch.

 

[TL4S]

I suspect he tied them and gagged them to keep them from running. Why one didn’t run when the other was being tied...maybe he locked them in one of the buildings/“shacks” as his initial point, have them walk in, lock the door, tie them up and then walk them one by one to the scene tell them he let the other one go.

He could have made one tie the other.

 

[Dee10]

IIRC from the Heather Elvis, it takes 6 or 7 minutes to strangle a person. I don't if it would be different for a child or not, but IMO he need both hands. I would assume one girl's hands would have been tied and gagged, horrible to think about.

 

[MsBetsy]

Hi MsBetsy,

I have no idea. There are some responses to my post upstream indicating how this may not necessarily be the case, that perhaps LE realized the description given was not describing BG, but someone else. So I really don’t know. All I know is it was claimed a witness provided the info for the “secondary” sketch, so whatever that means. Whatever the case, this new sketch has been given precedence.

I thought you meant that they ruled out the witness who provided the sketch! So never mind, just a misunderstanding.
I still wonder about that witness, though. It may very well mean nothing at all but I haven't ruled out the possibility that it was intentionally misleading.

 

[Inthedetails]

I wonder about that cell phone pinging comment. Maybe the area they were in was sort of in between several towers? So if people were trying to call them, or the phone was searching for a signal, each attempt might have reached different towers? Totally a guess...

Okay, this idea just popped into my head.

Could the girls have been abducted and taken somewhere in a vehicle on Monday afternoon, with the bodies placed later in the night? Would that that explain crossing the river and also the pings around town?

To be honest, I kind of discount the pinging info as inaccurate....but...if we're starting over, might as well start over and consider everything again.

jmo

 

[Boxer]

I am pages behind but not only did they change BG's sketch 90 degrees but they changed the venue that this new info was released. hmmm

The Wabash and Erie Conference Center is on the Western end of the Monon High Bridge Trail. I think someone among the police thought -
'we are are really on the trail
now, lets have the PC right on the trail.'

They have had one PC a while back
in open air at the other end nearer the MHB.

I really like the new direction.

 

[skoogmagoo]

• They are not the same person
• The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation

July 2017
"...Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said the portrait was drawn by an FBI sketch artist and was based on "recent information" from a witness who saw the suspect about the time of German and Williams' deaths.

"It relates to a dialogue between a witness and a sketch artist," he said. "That’s based upon an actual, real situation."..."
Yes, they are the same person. First sketch, done without witnesses, just the video, second sketch done with witnesses.
*

Does LE believe that the witness who worked with the FBI sketch artist resulting in sketch#1 intentionally misled the investigation?