Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #92

[skoogmagoo]

Wow, I guess I had better stop talking to myself!
I don't know about his having mental illness, but I am assuming this guy has got to be pretty twisted to do such a horrible, sickening thing.
I gathered from the way Carter described the crime scene, (How you left them in the woods that day is not what they are experiencing now) that it was particularly disturbing. Maybe it was very brutal or sadistic.
At the very least the killer has a dark side that he has managed to hide from those around him. Jmo

It's a message only the killer will understand.

 

[ocgrad]

I suspect there was a weapon involved, something that was immediate enough of a threat to make them feel like screaming would only put them in more danger. Either that, or it was over too quickly for screaming to be an option.

Or perhaps there were screams, and they were just mistaken for something else. If the river was active, rushing water can drown out a lot of sound.

Yes perhaps once they got across the creek any sounds were muffled. And maybe these supposed witnesses under the bridge or crossing minutes later were disproved. If they ran before being caught that would have sped up getting across. He may have intended to assault them under the bridge or off the end toward the empty house originally so he would have been more aware of people crossing behind him. Surely he didn't intend to get wet and muddy and walk back to a vehicle parked near the FB, I assume a busier part of the trail.

 

[cluciano63]

I read a link earlier that said they don't consider the person in the original sketch to be a POI at this time. I'll try and find the link and edit this post to add it in.

I thought they said there is only one man...just ignore the first image of him?

 

[Angleterre]

All my opinion..Either they are completely clueless about what happened and the press conference was a stunt to keep it in the public’s eye and get some fresh leads (using forensic statistics on killers to make assumptions on who the person is and “talking to” that person), or they KNOW who did it but don’t have enough evidence yet for a solid case. I tend to lean towards the latter. The raw emotion from Carter was just too intense. He knows who did it, and I believe it was someone who has been very close to the family and involved in the aftermath/grieving, who never would have initially been suspected. There is no way, in such a short press conference, that has been meticulously planned, that the Shack reference was a random mention. There is absolutely some subliminal message to the killer. (I bet they consulted with forensic psychologists on how to speak to/rattle this killer.) Did he return to the scene, as they did in the movie? When a University of Illinois student from China was murdered not too long ago, the killer actually showed up at a vigil for her, shortly after she had gone missing. Very perverse and twisted, but it does happen. Add in the fact that there was 3 days advance notice to the presser, members of community were encouraged to attend, and police were photographing people in attendance...I’m convinced they are scrutinizing their person of interest via that intel and likely other surveillance, as well, and are hoping the person trips up/tries to flee/etc. Nothing stated at that press conference was random. Hiding in plain sight, multiple religious references, the killer wanting to know what the investigators know...I don’t think anyone can overanalyze anything said there. I’m confident they will have someone in custody soon. Still a little thrown off by the new sketch. That audio sounds much older to me..could the new sketch depict a younger relative (who was a witness/false alibi/etc) who they’re now using as bait to coerce BG to confess? Did the older, actual killer use the younger relative’s social media to compel the girls to the area, in a catfish-type scheme? Was the dramatic buildup/reveal of a younger relative’s sketch a way of shocking the killer enough that he’d give a telltale physiologic sign at the conference of his guilt (excessive sweating, gulping, scratching his face, etc). Maybe this is a stretch but I just can’t reconcile the differences between BG and that second sketch...they are too different.

THIS THIS THIS - absolutely spot on and everything I believe as a SIO ( senior investigating officer in charge of Murders investigation and Detectives in UK)

 

[Tillicum]

I hope someday soon to understand how one man kills (chokes perhaps) 2 girls at one time without either girl screaming just a short distance from a public trail in the winter with no foliage and supposed witnesses around the area.

I still think a stun gun could've been used.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I hope someday soon to understand how one man kills (chokes perhaps) 2 girls at one time without either girl screaming just a short distance from a public trail in the winter with no foliage and supposed witnesses around the area.

I'm sure there are ways. He may have taped their mouths.

 

[MistyWaters]

He could have made one tie the other.

Throughout various interview both families have indicated the girls were not the docile, compliant type and they would’ve fought back. So only going by their words but just the fact they offered up those sorts of statements without the need to, they would also know details of the girls deaths that have not been released in the public venue. But that’s why I think any voluntary SA including tying each other up, or anything else to assist the perp in assaulting each other is unlikely but JMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

Maybe that was part of the appeal?

Good point. The risk might be part of the thrill.

 

[Rural_PC]

I was up to speed early, and have tried to read a lot of the threads in the last week, but I'm sure I've missed a lot of information. What was the depth of the river at the time of the murders? Is there evidence indicating all three of them crossed the river?

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo, the emotion could also have been due to the time lost looking for someone who doesn’t exist, i.e a man who looks like the old sketch...

 

[Boxer]

Okay, this idea just popped into my head.

Could the girls have been abducted and taken somewhere in a vehicle on Monday afternoon, with the bodies placed later in the night? Would that that explain crossing the river and also the pings around town?

To be honest, I kind of discount the pinging info as inaccurate....but...if we're starting over, might as well start over and consider everything again.

jmo

IIRC Pinging was discussed - what I remember is that the bridge area is between towers and moving location causes shifting around from one tower to the other --but I could be off on that.

 

[ab01]

Okay, this idea just popped into my head.

Could the girls have been abducted and taken somewhere in a vehicle on Monday afternoon, with the bodies placed later in the night? Would that that explain crossing the river and also the pings around town?

To be honest, I kind of discount the pinging info as inaccurate....but...if we're starting over, might as well start over and consider everything again.

jmo

Why would a killer return to the abduction site to leave dead bodies where people were likely still looking ? Seems it would be highly unlikely.

Even if it was only family and local concerned citizens still searching (as the official search had been called off).

There would likely have been much more easier and less possiblity of detection by taking them somewhere far away from where they were found.

I just don't see it MOO

 

[cluciano63]

Throughout various interview both families have indicated the girls were not the docile, compliant type and they would’ve fought back. So only going by their words but just the fact they offered up those sorts of statements without the need to, they would also know details of the girls deaths that have not been released in the public venue. JMO

Jmo we never know if we will freeze when under attack, no matter our personality. Some cops even freeze. So we can’t take it as fact that they, or anyone in their situation, would fight back.

 

[skoogmagoo]

Thanks! I corrected my post so I don't add to the confusion.

I see people walking by the side of the road all the time in a semi-rural area here. It's not as rural as the Delphi area. My only goal as a driver is not to run them over. It just struck me that a state trooper would be trained to notice things about a person in a way an average driver like myself would not.

Like others have stated, I felt Supt. Carter seemed betrayed, like someone has misled them, someone they know and trusted.

I don't get the impression Carter seems betrayed. I think he is reacting to the fact that the girls families feel betrayed because the killer has not been caught yet. And the police aren't any closer to catching him after two years.

 

[JillR]

Keep in mind the logic. This man is most likely a pedophile. If in fact he does/did know one of the girls or their families It is time for us to start asking why murder them?

 

[Boxer]

I was up to speed early, and have tried to read a lot of the threads in the last week, but I'm sure I've missed a lot of information. What was the depth of the river at the time of the murders? Is there evidence indicating all three of them crossed the river?

IIRC Footprints on the bank and a pulled down sapling.

 

[HockeyMom330]

anGiven the very short time frame that the girls were unaccounted for (~1-2 hrs)d the time that the searching began, it seems very improbable to me that the crime was random and not targeted. This is reinforced by the recent PC where police emphasized that they think the suspect is local to the area of the crime.

(Quote has been snipped for brevity and to focus on the bolded part of the statement).

The girls were alive and well at 2:07pm (as per the Snapchat photo of Abby on the bridge) but not responding to messages to the phone at 3:11pm. Something awful happended to them in that hour of time when they crossed paths with BG. I am torn trying to figure out if this crime is random or targeted, but not sure that the tight timeframe necessarily means that it must be targeted. Consider the case of Gabbi Doolin (Kentucky). She was playing hide & seek with friends near the bleachers while her parents were watching her older brother play football. At some point her friends realized they couldn't find her, so alerted her mom. Gabbi was reported missing and the whole game stopped while everyone searched. She was found (raped and strangled in a creek behind the field) just 18 minutes after being reported missing. 18 minutes!! That's about the average time of a coffee break. Although the suspect in this case is known to the family it was not to my knowledge a targeted crime but rather one of opportunity.

 

[skoogmagoo]

Keep in mind the logic. This man is most likely a pedophile. If in fact he does/did know one of the girls or their families It is time for us to start asking why murder them?

Because that's how he gets his kicks.

 

[Inthedetails]

Repeating what Mods constantly remind us:

Don't reply to a post that violates TOS or is questionable. Alert the mod instead and scroll ahead to continue discussion that falls within the rules.

It's harder for the Mods to clean up the thread if there are responses to track down. That takes time and could shut the thread.

If you don't know the WS rules, shout out and someone will post a link.

jmo

 

[Yellow Rose]

Was it ever proven they crossed the creek, instead of being forced back over the bridge?

I do believe they crossed the creek, just wondering if proof was offered. I guess my question is, did LE say it?

I can't put my hands on it right now, but proof was previously found and recorded on the forums that they did indeed cross the creek and several items of their clothing were found in Deer Creek as well. We were never told what items.

 

[TL4S]

Throughout various interview both families have indicated the girls were not the docile, compliant type and they would’ve fought back. So only going by their words but just the fact they offered up those sorts of statements without the need to, they would also know details of the girls deaths that have not been released in the public venue. But that’s why I think any voluntary SA including tying each other up, or anything else to assist the perp in assaulting each other is unlikely but JMO.

We just don't know if they ever had the opportunity to fight back. "Keep your mouths shut and do what I say or I'll shoot you," could be very persuasive to two young girls.