Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #93

[Matic]

Anyone want to be a champ and edit the new composite photo in the wiki page?

The new presser info has been added but the old composite is still there.

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

 

[mtnlites]

And I still can’t get over the fact that a parent would even think it’s ok to drop off their teenagers in the woods alone!??

SBM

This isn't an isolated forest out in the middle of nowhere. This is a popular local park. It's outside of town, but it's not the Arctic. You'll find people milling around there every day. I grew up going there with just my cousin (my age). The parents did know the girls were going there. They talked about this in the Dr. Phil show.

There is only one person responsible for this crime-BG. Not the girls, not their family.

 

[teacat]

I've read a report by another WSer that the girls mentioned being followed by a man in part of the audio that was not released to the public, but was played for the family.

Yes, there's an article about additional audio that was played for the families but not the public. I saw someone link it earlier, but I'm not sure where, so here it is:

https://www.wthr.com/article/police...of-man-behind-them-in-audio-played-for-family

 

[ab01]

There are several of "undetected" killers who studied or worked in crime prevention.

BTK aka Dennis Rader has a Bachelor's degree in Justice Administration, plus he worked for ADT SecurityServices.

Ted Bundy was assistant director of the Seattle Crime Prevention Advisory Commission and wrote anti-rape pamphlets.

EAR/ONS aka Golden State Killer aka Joseph DeAngelo was a cop.

Stephanie Lazarus also a cop.

It’s extremely difficult to be a prolific serial killer in 2019 and it’s getting more difficult by the day....moo

New technology, new methods by investigators More surveillance cameras, better satellite technology , advancement in dna extraction and testing. Etc etc weather you realize it or not we have far less privacy then we used to have.
Jmo

 

[Henry2326]

My first official post of a theory. Not of what happened to the girls, but the actual investigation.

1. LE has DNA, but does not divulge, or even unequivocally confirm this. By doing this, they are hoping that the Killer will be sloppy and they will be able to collect. The killer knowing that a great match to DNA is in their investigation, they will be more likely a little bit extra careful.
2. LE has finally received the results from both Parabon, and familial DNA. They have a Parabon sketch, but will not release it. Why? This would also tip their hand on having this info. Once they receive the Parabon details, they realize who it is, and also realize they had a sketch from early on of the person sighted there(which they had initially discounted). They now know which family (maybe even specific to the person), but are requesting further tips to see this case through court. Furthermore, the PC was meant to presumably say to the killer: "We know who you are, you now know we know, just give in before we arrest you". This would completely avoid a trial and risk any chance of case not sticking.
Just MO.

Great post!! Agree 100%. Hoping LE can close the gap. They have in many other cases, take Holly Bobo for example.

 

[MistyWaters]

Could someone clarify/provide a link if this was an unexpected/unplanned/impromptu day off (I've heard unused snow day) or an official planned school holiday (I've heard in observance of Lincoln's birthday)? My spouse is a teacher and even an impromptu day off would have some advance notice.

Maybe others have already replied and this is only my recollect from substantial discussion on early threads pertaining to it, or if you want to do some digging you’ll find more information somewhere there.

So only my memory of the topic - It was not a public holiday nor a day off throughout the entire school system. However the “snow day” for Delphi HS on Feb 13, 2017 was posted on the school’s online calendar on their public website. Discussion at that time indicated schools are allotted a certain number of days to be closed due to snow each winter but if that’s not required it just becomes a day off for students (similar to employee sick time).

Note below: meeting with relatives refers to getting picked up by Libby’s father IMO

“The two eighth-graders were dropped off around 1 p.m. on February 13, 2017 to walk along the Delphi Historic Trails. They’d arranged to meet relatives at the start of the trail about an hour after they arrived. (They had the day off from school for a “snow make-up day.”)”
The Unsolved Delphi Murders: What Happened to Indiana Teens Libby German and Abby Williams?

 

[PNWgirl10]

Yes, there's an article about additional audio that was played for the families but not the public. I saw someone link it earlier, but I'm not sure where, so here it is:

https://www.wthr.com/article/police...of-man-behind-them-in-audio-played-for-family

I think this solidifies this man was not familiar to the girls. MOO but if you know someone you refer to them by name and that alone would give police all they needed for an arrest (placing someone at the scene of a crime). But because they refer to him as a man, it makes me believe they 100% did not recognize him. Of course, this is just my opinion.

 

[gregjrichards]

Welcome to Websleuths Newyooper, GrouchoMarxist, Bobiedoll and all new members. It is great to have you all here. Thank you so much for joining us and for caring about Abigail and Liberty’s case.

 

[apples12]

What if the girls recognized the suspect as a familiar person but soon were alarmed because they realized something was not right with him. Perhaps they realized he was in a delusional or psychotic state and turned on the recorder at that point.

 

[MistyWaters]

I've read a report by another WSer that the girls mentioned being followed by a man in part of the audio that was not released to the public, but was played for the family.

Can someone please confirm? I don't want to spread unfounded information- if I'm incorrect, please let me know and I'll delete! TY

This might be what you’re thinking about:

“State police say more audio from Libby German's cell phone was played for the victims' families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them.

Police say the girls mostly talk about "stuff girls talk about" in the recording, but they also mention the man. The only audio that has been released to the public from the phone is that of a man's voice ordering German and her friend, Abby Williams, "down the hill."..”
Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family

 

[gregjrichards]

Your wife would have advanced notice but would other people without children or ties to the community know? I live in a county with less than 3,000 people. (That's county, not town.) Those who don't have children attending the schools or those who don't work there don't always keep up with dates here. I currently have two school-aged children and school admin communication can vary. I don't know what Delphi's is like. If he knew that school had been canceled that day then IMO he either has ties to the school in some way (a relative attends, he works with the school system in a peripheral way, etc.) or he just happened to overhear something either that day or the day before.

I honestly think that it was just a bad coincidence that Abby and Libby were there that day and crossed paths with him. If it hadn't been them, I think it would've been another woman-probably one on her own.

I haven’t checked but the school has social media i.e a Facebook page and a website I am sure the fact it was closed that day would have been announced. He could even have just been near the school at start time and he saw nobody nor any school buses so he would know then it was closed.

 

[IceIce9]

My thoughts are the killer may have coaxed one of them to meet him. If it was via Snapchat the messages would be gone. One of the girls knew she wouldn’t be able to go alone so they made up a plan so their parents would just think they were going for a walk. It’s very strange to me that the girls were dropped off for one hour. How long does it take for the parent to drive back and forth? We’re the girls supposed to just walk across the bridge and back? And I still can’t get over the fact that a parent would even think it’s ok to drop off their teenagers in the woods alone!??

Edit- because I just read that the sister dropped them off. Did the parents know? Did the parents go there after sister panicked? Was the ‘witness’ the sister who saw someone suspicious when she dropped them off? And when she came back they were gone?

They asked Becky’s permission as they had spent the night at Libby’s home. Becky gave them permission as long as they could find a ride home. Which they did - Libby. called her father and asked if he could pick them up.

This information was detailed in one of the early interviews.

And they weren’t dropped off in the woods alone. This is a popular hiking trail and meeting spot, where kids and adults alike hike, meet, or just hang out.

In Indiana we have many of these trails throughout the state. I live just off a section of this trail system. At any time of the year you will see people of all ages walking, hiking, jogging.

The section of the trail next to my home is nearly 20 miles long, and an Indiana park ranger plows it every time it snows so that people can hike or walk even in the winter.

 

[apples12]

I suspect they were his first victims I think some of the thrill was planning, thinking, dreaming through the kill. I don’t think he’s attacked since. Some don’t. Some find that the fantasy is better than the actual crime.

Ex: The killings of Michella Welch and Jenni Bastian in Washington. It is believed both suspects did not kill again.

I completely agree with you on this.

 

[cluciano63]

I find it hard to imagine that in a small town, anyone and everyone who could even possibly be considered by anyone to be a weirdo, oddball, violent, loner, etc had not been reported over the past two years. So who is left? Some completely normal, respected man? Some twentyish guy with a regular job, who minds his business and keeps off the radar?

I don’t think it is true that someone else knows, either. Killing children is not a bragging kind of crime. Also, suspecting someone close to you of killing children, who is not on police radar already, seems unlikely. All jmo. Just saying I think LE is basing “local” assumption mostly on the fact of “knowing” the bridge at all.

 

[IceIce9]

I haven’t checked but the school has social media i.e a Facebook page and a website I am sure the fact it was closed that day would have been announced. He could even have just been near the school at start time and he saw nobody nor any school buses so he would know then it was closed.

The school has a sign in front that said “NO SCHOOL FEBRUARY 13” several days ahead of time. In Indiana they build snow days into the school schedule and if they aren’t used the kids get extra days off school.

 

[K9Enzo]

I believe the day off of school was planned in advance. It's also the reason the girls had a sleepover on a weekday.

 

[IceIce9]

I wasn't that poster, but there is the whole "people of walmart" thing. People wearing something inappropriate, etc. You take a picture and show a friend...can you believe this?? I think that is all the poster meant!

Uhhh ok. Thanks for that explanation

I guess I didn’t know taking pictures of Walmart people was a thing.

I hike trails and take pictures of birds, wildlife, and sunsets. I guess I am out of touch

 

[insatiable]

I think this solidifies this man was not familiar to the girls. MOO but if you know someone you refer to them by name and that alone would give police all they needed for an arrest (placing someone at the scene of a crime). But because they refer to him as a man, it makes me believe they 100% did not recognize him. Of course, this is just my opinion.

Did the girls actually use the word “man” or is the article just saying the girls were talking about a man? I’m not reading it as the girls actually used that word. They could have but I don’t see this as being proof that they did. This says they mention a man behind them. The girls could of said “the guy behind us” or “he’s behind us” and it could still be referred to by LE as “they mentioned a man”. Ykwim?

Edit to add- I have looked and can not find any source that says the girls mentioned any man other than it being stated in this article.

 

[MJPeony]

If you are confused about the sketches, WATCH THIS. PLEASE... This is about THIS case, just recorded.

Oh wow. Thank you. That's interesting and also discouraging. I got both the shirt color AND the glasses wrong! Makes me wonder how accurate the sketch is at all.

I guess I go back to thinking that what we are to focus on is what could be specifically different from the original. LE thought it important enough to put out a new sketch. So if eye-witness descriptions are notoriously often inaccurate, something makes LE think that this new depiction is definitely better than the other. Traits different enough that they are confident in this new one.

MOO.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think this solidifies this man was not familiar to the girls. MOO but if you know someone you refer to them by name and that alone would give police all they needed for an arrest (placing someone at the scene of a crime). But because they refer to him as a man, it makes me believe they 100% did not recognize him. Of course, this is just my opinion.

I agree, in that it’s reported they “mention the man” it doesn’t appear anything had occurred at that point to unduly alarm them.

But LE know what is on that tape and even if it’s not enough to directly identify this person, considering they’ve withheld this information I hope it makes the killer squirm to consider the fact his innocent victims took the opportunity to talk about him without him knowing.