Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #93

[KentuckyMama]

Maybe it would be helpful to have a *facts only* post. Maybe it can be added to the beginning of the thread. Such as who dropped them off that day. Times of photos. Times of calls and arrival of Libby s dad. LE statements. There seems to be a lot of confusion.

 

[CSIDreamer]

The last time I saw my son alive was on the 20th. He was found dead in the morning on the 21st. I chose the 20th as his date of death. Depending on the circumstances, parents can do this. Abby and Libby were taken on the 13th and found on the 14th. One family chose the date in which they were taken (and ultimately killed) while the other took the date in which they were found. There is oftentimes a psychology behind this. It's not unusual.

I'm really sorry.

 

[CookieMonster21]

We need a link that the first sketch is of a sex offender. Has this info been posted in MSM? If the link has been posted, let's bump it up.

jmo

This is the first I have heard of this, I would like to see it too.

 

[LaborDayRN]

When my family member (in her 20's) was murdered the original intent was sexual assault but she fought back and it enraged him. He killed her. The other girls he killed before were under 1o years old, he attacked them, raped them, sodomized them and killed them both at the same time. Not your average serial killer.

(((((Tillicum))))))

 

[carmenugt]

When my family member (in her 20's) was murdered the original intent was sexual assault but she fought back and it enraged him. He killed her. The other girls he killed before were under 1o years old, he attacked them, raped them, sodomized them and killed them both at the same time. Not your average serial killer.

I' sorry you had that experience. I think the girls put up a fight.They amaze me.

 

[Elle*Bee]

Why would they not choose the same date? Seems odd...

Why would they choose the same dates? They weren’t likely in the same room, planning the funerals together. It’s the funeral home that provides the obituary to their website and, if the family elects, the local newspaper. Date of death versus date found...personal choice. My friend’s son died of an overdose. Coroner ruled date of death was most likely very late on September 14th. However, his body wasn’t discovered until late September 15th. His younger sister’s birthday was Sept. 14th. The obituary, online memorial lists his passing on September 15th. It was a personal family decision. I don’t know what is listed on the tombstone or birth certificate, but there’s nothing online indicating that the young man ODed on his sister’s birthday (although he likely did). Official documents may show otherwise, but at least in my state there’s a bit of wiggle room. Our newspaper obits aren’t based on fully completed documents. Other states may handle it differently.

 

[LaborDayRN]

The last time I saw my son alive was on the 20th. He was found dead in the morning on the 21st. I chose the 20th as his date of death. Depending on the circumstances, parents can do this. Abby and Libby were taken on the 13th and found on the 14th. One family chose the date in which they were taken (and ultimately killed) while the other took the date in which they were found. There is oftentimes a psychology behind this. It's not unusual.

(((((mtnlites)))))

 

[MistyWaters]

He planned his act but probably not a victim. I sure hope this weekend something happens. I was listening to a podcast and they made it sound like this trail system goes a long way. Has anyone looked into other crimes in IN?

The rules of this thread are listed on page #1 and some of it pertains to discussion of people who are arrested for other crimes that have no connection to this one.

 

[peel]

The Shack is about a child who gets abducted and murdered by a serial pedophile who leaves behind clues. The father is a child of a alcoholic christian who beats his children. The premise is after his child is killed he struggles with God. What does the sheriff mean?

"the Shack" is far deeper then that....the main character kills his abusive father and carries the guilt his whole life......it all comes to a head when his own precious little girl goes missing and her clothes are found with blood stains in an old shack/cabin......the man goes thru a spiritual revelation where he talks to God...God talks to the man and that God loves all his children, even the murderer of the man's little girl....that God forgives......ultimately the man is convinced to release his anger and hatred and forgive his dtrs killer......Carter is suggesting that the killer of Libby and Abby can be forgiven by God IF he does the right thing and admits it..

clearly, the police have the idea that this perp has a religious side, a side of him capable of carrying remorse....

 

[gitana1]

Something else I thought was a little ironic is that the new sketch looks a little like Sam Worthington, the actor who played the main character in The Shack! Jmo

I don't think the powers that be realized my "comparison" was a joke!

 

[carmenugt]

Maybe it would be helpful to have a *facts only* post. Maybe it can be added to the beginning of the thread. Such as who dropped them off that day. Times of photos. Times of calls and arrival of Libby s dad. LE statements. There seems to be a lot of confusion.

The facts of the case are at the top of each thread.

 

[Wells]

I’d think the murderer would have to be in good physical shape in order to take on two victims at once considering both Libby and Abby were healthy, active girls involved in sports.

Anyone would would have to walk awkwardly across that bridge as there were gaps between the ties and some were rotted or missing.

There’s a photo of it on this link.

View attachment 181324

UPDATE: Officials: 2 bodies found in Deer Creek near Delphi

I am familiar with what the bridge looks like. We have been looking at this as a one or the other situation but it might not be. He could have been walking carefully because of the integrity of the bridge AND because of a limp or poor vision.

 

[everybodhi]

When I did the DNA test on 23andme I could not believe the profile I was given. Hair color, eye color, freckles or not, skin color, weight range (slim, overweight)....so many other markers that were spot on. Like others here have said, with a good enough sample, a pretty decent general description is possible. That is why I'm concerned with the quality of the DNA that they have, if they have any at all. These kinds of cases have to place a lot of weight on DNA match imo.

I don’t know much about DNA tests and I wonder, did your DNA test specify any age parameters?

 

[Spartygirl]

Everything I put out is for anybody to do whatever they want with, anyone can use my videos or pictures in any capacity without permission or approval.

Thank you.. I just did not want to share without your permission

 

[Seattle1]

off topic

 

[Bobiedoll]

I'm so confused. The podcast someone posted earlier (best case worst case) was a room of fbi agents talking about the case and the new developments. The said multiple times that the first sketch released to the public turned out to be that of a sex offender that was arrested recently and cleared off the delphi case. Where did this information come from? I haven't seen this reported anywhere else... Have any of y'all?

I caught that as well and put it off as an error. It is possible, I suppose, that they have some information we are not privy to. But seems very unlikely. Just doesn’t make sense.

 

[carmenugt]

I don't know why each family chose the date they did for the obituary, but let's keep in mind obituaries are not official documents. The family submits the information, not an official. Families can write whatever they want - nobody fact checks them or questions the information to make sure it matches other documents.

The official date of death would be what LE/ME determined and documented.

We should not assume that the different dates on the two obituaries necessarily mean anything other than preference by each girl's family.

jmo

Families in crisis get to do the best thing they know how at the time. Who is to say what is right in those circumstances. You just let them be and move along a pathway of recovery any way they can cope. If there is recovery.

 

[MistyWaters]

Maybe it would be helpful to have a *facts only* post. Maybe it can be added to the beginning of the thread. Such as who dropped them off that day. Times of photos. Times of calls and arrival of Libby s dad. LE statements. There seems to be a lot of confusion.

Nobody could’ve had even the slightest inkling this case would remain unsolved for 2 years or more. But had it been known it would’ve been really great and far less confusing to have separate threads for different topics of discussion. I’m hopeful a arrest on the horizon will solve that too!

But yes, I can understand why it’s extremely difficult for anyone to catch up with this case, especially anybody who hadn’t followed it until now. If I recall correctly, there have been Fact posts created in the past but I don’t know how they could be found unless someone remembers posting one.

 

[MassGuy]

I don’t know much about DNA tests and I wonder, did your DNA test specify any age parameters?

Those particular home tests, don’t have that capability.

New advanced testing, the type that law enforcement has to pay thousands for, does have that capability.

The huge age range here, indicates to me that such a test has not been performed.

I don’t think it’s a viable option.

 

[Peppery]

CASAREZ: So did you go -- did you go out -- since this was your property, you find out that they are there. Did you go out to the crime scene yourself?

LOGAN: The crime scene has been closed off. It was not -- my property was not released back to me until late Wednesday. I went to the crime scene Thursday morning to try to get a feeling of it. And it`s still difficult to just...

LOGAN: What did you see when you went out there?

CASAREZ: There was not much to see, other than the crime scene tape around the area. The area was still very pristine. You couldn`t actually tell that there was any such a violent action.

CASAREZ: You didn`t see any blood? You didn`t see a gruesome scene?

LOGAN: No, nothing. The area was very, very pristine. There was nothing there to see. I mean, really...

CASAREZ: Was there one crime scene and one location from what you could tell, or two separate crime scenes because there were two victims?

LOGAN: Just one. One scene. And apparently, I assume that both were found in this area because that`s -- what I`m pointing at to now is all that -- is all that was there.

CNN.com - Transcripts