Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #97

[Kateinfl]

I keep going back to the vehicle "abandoned" at the social service building on the 13th between noon and 5pm. Who would have seen that vehicle or even noticed it? LE wasn't called until after 5pm about the girls being missing so that vehicle would have been gone.

Makes me think that during the course of the day (prior to the girls even going missing) a patrol car saw the vehicle parked at the building which was no longer occupied and found it out of sorts and called it in to run its tags. I hardly think the casual person passing by that building would take note of the vehicle being parked there especially having such specifics as to the time of noon til 5pm.

I wonder if there were any signs posted on that property (social service building) saying something like "No parking", "vehicles parked here will be towed at owners expense", "no trespassing" and so on. Such a sign at that property would make a patrol vehicle check out a vehicle parked there.

This is jmo....people may park there when walking and going to the trail and maybe the witness saw the poi walking that way....so..they need the public to remember if they saw a car parked there that day...to be able to get a make and model..although after two yrs..that info would be hard to remember....but it's a chance...and then they could start looking for someone that drives or sold a car back then. and give the make and model to the public...as I said jmo...but its the only thing that kind of makes sense to me

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't know why they bother with those side-by-sides. Even police sketch artists admit that those sketches rarely if ever look anything like the actual perp. Eyewitness's are very bad at recalling details and translating what they do remember adds a second layer of uncertainty

I think that's true. Of all the sketches there were of the golden state killer, I thought only one looked similar to the way he actually looked.
Once they catch this guy, we will probably all be talking about how the sketch looked nothing like him. Imo

 

[ocgrad]

If they knew who this person is, but can’t locate him, one of their options would be to name him as a person of interest, asking him to contact them.

Even if they know who he, they could still name him as a person of interest and hold a press conference seeking additional information related to the Delphi case. That way they’d be sure some of the tips would be focused on the POI, who they know.

JMO

They didn't name Joseph Deangelo before they got his discarded DNA and verified he was the match. I've considered that if they know who, by investigating the DNA, the family and determined which member, then they don't know where he is. Before the investigation turned to him he may have vanished and they are putting this pressure on his family to locate him. If the investigation had changed gears before they announced it last week he could have sniffed that out and left.

 

[MistyWaters]

They didn't name Joseph Deangelo before they got his discarded DNA and verified he was the match. I've considered that if they know who, by investigating the DNA, the family and determined which member, then they don't know where he is. Before the investigation turned to him he may have vanished and they are putting this pressure on his family to locate him. If the investigation had changed gears before they announced it last week he could have sniffed that out and left.

Did they draw a sketch of Joseph Deangelo and ask the public if they knew who this guy was? I’m sorry, I’m not familiar with that case.

 

[IceIce9]

Walking the trails frequently under normal situations is quite different from being there under duress or trying to get to Abby's house from there. I've spent more time in that park then I can even remember, but if someone was threatening me and blind panic set in, I'm not convinced I'd be able to think clearly-especially if I were 13. I speak from personal experience from having actually been on the trails-and off.

Someone upstream had asked if it had been Abby & Libby’s first time there.

 

[Matic]

Someone in or around Delphi could really use that $250k reward. Make the right choice and turn this person in.

 

[MsBetsy]

Did they draw a sketch of Joseph Deangelo and ask the public if they knew who this guy was? I’m sorry, I’m not familiar with that case.

Yes, there were several sketches, from many different witnesses, over the years. Most of them looked nothing like him. If you google it, you can see them all!

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think we need to be looking for a coward with a beard. He’d Want to be hiding that cowardly chiny-chin-chin.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[sumzero]

This is jmo....people may park there when walking and going to the trail and maybe the witness saw the poi walking that way....so..they need the public to remember if they saw a car parked there that day...to be able to get a make and model..although after two yrs..that info would be hard to remember....but it's a chance...and then they could start looking for someone that drives or sold a car back then. and give the make and model to the public...as I said jmo...but its the only thing that kind of makes sense to me

Makes sense to me, too. It also indicates that LE is not close to IDing a subject. Not when they're grasping at straws.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, there were several sketches, from many different witnesses, over the years. Most of them looked nothing like him. If you google it, you can see them all!

That’s interesting. Am I understand correctly?.....LE released sketches even though they knew the one person they believed committed the crime looked nothing like the sketch? Or maybe, did they have their eye on more than one POI? If so, that’s usually something that doesn’t come up during the trial.

 

[ab01]

Yes, there were several sketches, from many different witnesses, over the years. Most of them looked nothing like him. If you google it, you can see them all!

Yah unfortunately a sketch is only as good as the witness’s recollections and how well the sketch artist can replicate those recollections.

I do have some hope in this case, as the witness is likely describing a person in a specific isolated area at a specific time

Coupled with the information that this sketch was done very early on

I can’t help but be cautiously optimistic

Moo

 

[chasing.halos]

I been doing some homework on a POI I have in mind and haven't kept up with WS the past few days. Does anyone know if it was windy that day Libby and Abby were murdered? I checked Wunderground for the history and it looks like there was mild winds from approx noon until 2 pm and then the wind laid down for the rest of the day. Would the wind be stronger on the bridge? IMO, the part of BG's hair appears to be blown forward (like bangs) giving the illusion that he is wearing a baseball cap. Also in what direction were the girls headed across the bridge? Were they walking away from the parking area and BG was following from the same direction? If so, is that heading toward the abandoned building where the vehicle was parked?

I am also curious if the mysterious vehicle could be a rental. Would LE check with rental companies if they have a description? And would they only check vehicles rented from IN? Nationwide?

The POI I am looking at lives in another state but could have connections 'up north'.

Also, is there a specific program that Purdue or any other colleges in the area that attract students? For instance, Auburn U is renowned for it's veterinary school, Duke U for medical program etc.

Wasn't there a fire in Delphi the day the girls disappeared? I'd like to know more about it if so.

I am still digging. Thanks for any help. All MOO!

I do know that Libby attended classes at Purdue:

"Liberty German dreamed of becoming a science teacher.

She was interested in solving crimes or finding clues and her curiosity in the sciences was serious business. She attended several classes at nearby Purdue University to try out different areas to see what interested her most. "

Delphi Daughters: Untold story of Abby & Libby

 

[Krwiley60]

Looking at this graphic (if I am reading this correctly), the girls were more or less at the end of the bridge when the footage of BG was taken. It seems like a very long bridge so I would assume that they would have known he was behind them for some time?



Again, looking at the graphic, which way did they go? Because the distance for the end of the bridge to the water appears quite far, which is why I'm curious as to where he took control over them. Did they leave the bridge and decide to walk back to the pick up point and were approached in the forest? Abby may not have been familiar with the area, but Libby and her family were.

According to reports, one of the girls father, Derrick, made it to the bridge, but turned away rather than crossing. The elderly gentleman that he spoke to mentioned that he had only seen a man and woman under the bridge. Where are these witnesses? When they were searching for the girls, they were calling their names and it is said that the voices carried very well. If the girls were close to the bridge and perhaps they screamed, then the people under the bridge should have heard something.

ETA: There was a female hiker on the bridge taking photos at the time the girls were murdered. Why did she not hear or see anything? Why did BG not target her or know she was in the area?

Their mouths could have been taped shut. Or gagged in some way. That’s the only reason I can think of as to why no one heard them.

 

[sunshineray]

I think this is really unlikely.

Most people who commit murder, want to get away from a crime scene as soon as possible.

They don’t want to spend a second longer there, than they have to.

They want it to appear that they were never there.

If this was his first murder (which I believe it was), this is even more likely. He’d be quite nervous in the minutes, hours, and days after the fact.

He probably wouldn’t want to return right away.

I agree with what someone said earlier, that taking on two targets is being very bold indeed, just from the standpoint of control, that it may indicate the killer has killed before.
As far as what I had said, i don't think he left via any trail as his outer wear could have gotten stained. Making his way back to his vehicle though the woods, thinking let me take this of, that off, change my appearance. I'm not certain on the timeline of other events though that day, just the 2:07 post to SM and 2:49 C pictures from the bridge. The father arriving around 3pm and then walking around before calling others to come down and look, before they all decide to call the police. I was just thinking maybe circumstances led to him being trapped there for awhile and that's how the second sketch originated? I feel so horrible for the families after the ISP told them before the conference what was going to be announced. Either they felt like some have voiced, that the LE doesn't know or like others that took it to heart and horror, this new strategy and the calling out of a possible insider "in plain sight" lurking amongst them for so long. It's heartbreaking either way.

 

[Skigh]

I think we need to be looking for a coward with a beard. He’d Want to be hiding that cowardly chiny-chin-chin.

Amateur opinion and speculation

He has had only 10 days or so to start growing one since the new sketch was shown!!

 

[MsBetsy]

That’s interesting. Am I understand correctly?.....LE released sketches even though they knew the one person they believed committed the crime looked nothing like the sketch? Or maybe, did they have their eye on more than one POI? If so, that’s usually something that doesn’t come up during the trial.

Before they knew he was the golden state killer, they did have sketches of him when he was "just" the east area rapist. He raped over 50 women so there were so many descriptions of him.
But yes, he was always the same guy so the sketches are all of him. There is a whole series of them with his hat/mask that he sometimes wore.
Anyway I just made the comparison in response to a post that made the point that sketches are not always that accurate.
Also no, I don't think they knew the sketches looked nothing like him. They were relying on witnesses descriptions. Imo

 

[nwmouse]

Yah unfortunately a sketch is only as good as the witness’s recollections and how well the sketch artist can replicate those recollections.

I do have some hope in this case, as the witness is likely describing a person in a specific isolated area at a specific time

In other words this was
Coupled with the information that this sketch was done very early on

I can’t help but be cautiously optimistic

Moo

I was watching an interesting true crime documentary last night and the lead detective on "The Murder At The Met" case (Craig Crimmins was the killer) said that a sketch is used to help exclude suspects, mostly. Hairstyle, possible race and age, weight, height, facial hair etc.

I'd never thought of it that way before.

moo

 

[Skigh]

Makes sense to me, too. It also indicates that LE is not close to IDing a subject. Not when they're grasping at straws.

I think the opposite.I unconditionally think they have a very good idea of who they think BG is.

 

[moonlessnight]

and was the original sketch of someone that was not placed at the park by a witness but simply came off the assumption that BG looked like a known SO? Did the FBI not analyze the video to see what we now see - a younger, thinner person without facial hair?

That’s interesting. Am I understand correctly?.....LE released sketches even though they knew the one person they believed committed the crime looked nothing like the sketch? Or maybe, did they have their eye on more than one POI? If so, that’s usually something that doesn’t come up during the trial.

 

[Suglo]

That’s interesting. Am I understand correctly?.....LE released sketches even though they knew the one person they believed committed the crime looked nothing like the sketch? Or maybe, did they have their eye on more than one POI? If so, that’s usually something that doesn’t come up during the trial.

He was wanted since the 70s. The sketches were all done in the 70s and maybe early 80s. He was only caught using genetic genealogy last year at the age of 77 after 40+ years. The sketches were all over the place and they never knew if they were of him or someone else who happened to be in the neighborhood. (He raped and killed people at night not during the day). His last known victim was in 1986 and then he went dormant for 32 years until he was identified through dna.