Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #98

[Cyber sleuth]

Haven’t posted in awhile and still new at best, I was drawn here because in my life while still in my younger than 20’s years I had some dramatic incidents. One being a best friend dying of an accidental gunshot, another being a friend or boyfriend of my younger sister’s best friend committing suicide so to speak anyway... and the third being a girl who was a friend of my younger sister and on the cheerleading squad I coached for them in elementary being murdered in an awful fashion by a boyfriend of a girl just one grade ahead of me in high school I so feel for the family of Abby and Libby and wish I could make a difference even in the most minuscule way. I have had many thoughts during posts but am so far behind as I have read forward I believe someone else has shared that thought and mentioned already I would ask though during a video posted earlier on of searches, does anyone remember a specific one with two men interviewed where it sounds like one slips and starts to say “victims” but stops mid word and corrects himself to say girls?

Yes but that individual is possibly family to the victim, not a named POI. I think discussions of him are being removed.

 

[margarita25]

Hi, everyone. As you see, I´m new here.
I was deeply touched by this case and I am so, so sorry for the girls and their families...

I keep thinking about all this stuff all over again and the first thing that always comes to my mind is that there´s something "out of joint" from the beginning of this uncanny case.

Wrong premises, maybe.

Welcome JustEve

Could you please elaborate on what you mean about “something “out of joint” with this case”? I’ve said before that “something “doesn’t feel right” but I can’t quite put my finger on it”. I believe my exact term was that I feel “some sort of “disconnect””.

Obviously it’s “out of joint” because the killer has not been caught over two years later, but I’m curious as to what you may be thinking specifically. Thanks in advance.

The bridge guy looks definitely fortyish to me. His clothing, his physique, his gait: everything. He is definitely not walking like a younger person, in my opinion. Of course it may be wrong.
Rsbm

I agree with this ten thousand percent (minus the gait which I’m currently “inconclusive on” because that to me is a variable factor based on the conditions of the bridge).

In addition, with the older voice imo, I am not sure at all about this sketch business or convinced about its relevance or validity, jmo.

 

[susiQ]

I have posted something similar once before but I'll do it again, bc I think it is of importance to consider that the murders could be motivated by other causes than what is mostly discused:

My theory (one of them):
The killer's motive was to silence one of the girls, I believe Libby, bc she knew something about him that would ruin his life if it came out, and that Libby may have threatened to tell what she knew. Abby was just at the wrong place at the wrong time and the killer choose to kill her too bc she was wittness.

The killers MO was that of a lust killer, possibly sexual motivated, and that he choose that MO to make the murders look as something else than it actually was in order to misslead police.

How would the killer know that Libby was on the bridge?
If the killer was facebook friend and/or Instagram follower of Libby maybe Libby might have posted on FB (privat message to someone?) or snapchat on Instagram something about going to the bridge so he would know.
Or he was stalking Libby, waiting in a car close to her home and followed when Libby and Abby left Libby's home by car ?

Also, we know that there was several in Libby's close circles that knew ( not that I suspect any of her family members) that the girls was going to the bridge, maybe one them have mentioned something to someone, by phone, or social media like ; " -Ok, but I just have to bring my sister (or; my daughter etc) to/from the bridge then I have time to " and like that the knowledge of were the girls were heading may have slipped out from the family inner circle.

Very, very interesting theory! And, your English is very good too

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Nothing in my opinion. I don’t think he will ever turn himself in.
Are there any stats on how many murderers actually turn themselves in on their own will?

ETA: I realize now that you’re asking what makes a person turn in the perp- not sure, I’d guess their own morals, if they have any.

And sometimes believing that they can and will be charged with murder after the fact, or whatever name IL gives that charge. (It seems like each state calls it something slightly different.)

 

[TTF14]

How would the killer know that Libby was on the bridge?
If the killer was facebook friend and/or Instagram follower of Libby maybe Libby might have posted on FB (privat message to someone?) or snapchat on Instagram something about going to the bridge so he would know.
Or he was stalking Libby, waiting in a car close to her home and followed when Libby and Abby left Libby's home by car ?

They also may have been calling around that morning for a ride to the bridge....

 

[margarita25]

Please forgive me as I’m a little slow this morning, but I’m trying to find some articles that relate specifically to shoe impressions left on leaves and not finding what I’m looking for...making a note here to look later after more coffee. Someone else may have better luck with this if they are so inclined to look.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

And sometimes believing that they can and will be charged with murder after the fact, or whatever name IL gives that charge. (It seems like each state calls it something slightly different.)

There must also be a (small?) % motivated by any reward offered. Most people have their price , regardless of moral standing? Moo

 

[TTF14]

There must also be a (small?) % motivated by any reward offered. Most people have their price , regardless of moral standing? Moo

I can't think of any case I've followed where a reward that was offered motivated someone to come forward.

 

[goldie finch]

Ok it's also royal and international, as Prince Harry in speaking about his newborn son, just called the press "You guys" and later "guys". So all regional bets are off!

 

[margarita25]

Ok it's also royal and international, as Prince Harry in speaking about his newborn son, just called the press "You guys" and later "guys". So all regional bets are off!

(Doh!!)

(ETA: not exactly “Queen’s English”, is it? Lol. These times, they are a changin’!)

 

[CSIDreamer]

Please forgive me as I’m a little slow this morning, but I’m trying to find some articles that relate specifically to shoe impressions left on leaves and not finding what I’m looking for...making a note here to look later after more coffee. Someone else may have better luck with this if they are so inclined to look.

Specific to the case or in general? Because in general, if the ground under the leaves are wet enough and the person heavy enough, there will be foot shaped impressions.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I wonder though with hindsight what Rader's family would say now if asked. It is odd how once one is away from someone and looks back how much you can see differently. Lol I do not know this from being around a serial killer but it happens in relationships for instance. When one is wrapped up in the relationship, it is more difficult to see but once out of them, well, hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

I refuse to call him BTK (not at you, just a thing I do and a name I will not use) because he is the type to get off on that name and think of his notorious fame in his own sick head. I will never forget him in the courtroom taking what he felt to be his power back in his last chance to do so--not because he was impressive but because he felt he was while most of us watched disgusted and sickened at his audacity and his own pathetic self delusion. The worst thing that can be done to him is for him to be forgotten and to feel like a nobody imo and he is. He killed many innocent people but a perp always has the advantage of knowing what they are going to do, it in no way makes them smarter than LE, victims or the public. It is like stacking a deck of cards to cheat at a game. Nothing intelligent about it, of course the perp knows all of the details and the plan, the perp did it. I want to say to them duh, what about that makes you smart in your own head? Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero.

Like the case here, with names, I think OBG or YBG or BG should be as far as the name goes. If he is a type like Dennis Nobody Dog Catcher Rader, he is waiting for a really memorable name that he hopes goes down in history. You know like Jack the Ripper, Golden State Killer. I get why names are given but I also believe some of these types get off on those names. It is that importance they wanted--gag--because any notice is better than none... If I had my way, a name would be given that would drive them up the wall... Like the recent PC and the word "coward".

Both of these girls had way more going for them than he did and were smarter than he. What a big man picking on two little girls, is that what he thinks? Pretty warped and deluded, I guess that is what it takes him to feel any power or control and yet to the rest of us, it shows nothing but cowardice. It is like trolls on the internet, if they can hide but be the attention of the thread or get the attention of the thread, control it or get a reaction, while using a screen name... In a same fashion but a far worse way, these perps getting the attention of the media and the town or nation, yet remaining unknown, apparently it is all they have to give them self-importance and they erroneously believe importance to others as well...

Abby and Libby will always be fondly remembered. This perp once put away will be forgotten except for the occasional reference of "remember that coward that killed those two brave, smart beautiful girls?", what was his name again.... Their names, however, will never be forgotten.

All jmo. Couldn't sleep and just talking out loud and rambling, sorry for the lengthy post.

This
I like Coward Of Delphi or Coward Of Carroll County.

 

[TTF14]

This
I like Coward Of Delphi or Coward Of Carroll County.

Oh I like the latter! CCC, easy to remember. Even kinda sounds like "sissy."

 

[margarita25]

Specific to the case or in general? Because in general, if the ground under the leaves are wet enough and the person heavy enough, there will be foot shaped impressions.

I was speaking generally, but really either/or.

(Eta: I really don’t know what I’m looking for...maybe that’s why I can’t find it haha)

 

[enelram]

Wonder if this deviant had stalked Libby for a while. Maybe
pursued her romantically and she rejected him and he was
out to get her that day. ??? Abby was collateral damage to him.
Quite often these types do stalk and plan. I'm sure FBI
knows.
Again, maybe a clue to religion and Libby's church activities?
Wasn't Delphi United Methodist Church her family's church?
I hope they're zeroing in on this possible link.

 

[susiQ]

They also may have been calling around that morning for a ride to the bridge....

Or maybe walked? Got dropped of somewhere close by, but not too close??

ETA: Meaning not too close to be directly associated with actually being there?

 

[susiQ]

This
I like Coward Of Delphi or Coward Of Carroll County.

I love Coward of Carrol County! The alliteration is perfect!!

 

[margarita25]

I have a question. Can any of you guys name a case where a “man” (non-familial) killed a little girl and there was NOT a sexual motive? (Excluding mass shootings.)

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

I have posted something similar once before but I'll do it again, bc I think it is of importance to consider that the murders could be motivated by other causes than what is mostly discused:

My theory (one of them):
The killer's motive was to silence one of the girls, I believe Libby, bc she knew something about him that would ruin his life if it came out, and that Libby may have threatened to tell what she knew. Abby was just at the wrong place at the wrong time and the killer choose to kill her too bc she was wittness.

The killers MO was that of a lust killer, possibly sexual motivated, and that he choose that MO to make the murders look as something else than it actually was in order to misslead police.

How would the killer know that Libby was on the bridge?
If the killer was facebook friend and/or Instagram follower of Libby maybe Libby might have posted on FB (privat message to someone?) or snapchat on Instagram something about going to the bridge so he would know.
Or he was stalking Libby, waiting in a car close to her home and followed when Libby and Abby left Libby's home by car ?

Also, we know that there was several in Libby's close circles that knew ( not that I suspect any of her family members) that the girls was going to the bridge, maybe one them have mentioned something to someone, by phone, or social media like ; " -Ok, but I just have to bring my sister (or; my daughter etc) to/from the bridge then I have time to " and like that the knowledge of were the girls were heading may have slipped out from the family inner circle.

Great post. It’s also worth noting that the killer had to have known there was no guardian around, right?

It seems risky to handle the girls this way not knowing if a parent is possibly just a ways down, or a grandparent is waiting near the entrance, or even another friend is goofing off nearby, etc.

 

[fred&edna]

DBM