IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #28

[Deleted member 278]

I'm not sure LE can get a DNA sample from someone they bring in for questioning, who has an alibi, which at the time, they can't prove is false?

They can ask the person to submit to a swab but they can't force the person to do so.

 

[Alexsea]

I often wonder about this.

There is a huge return on investment. All agencies need to ban together and put some serious funding into this.

Think of all the criminals that are roaming free because this is not being addressed like it should be. Nationwide problem that needs solved immediately.

There is no excuse for this. Funding needs to be gotten and there should be a public outcry about this.

We are way past allowing excuses about DNA backlog testing while criminals and rapists roam free.

Instead of agencies buying the next Humvee war surpless truck with all bells and whistles lets get some DNA testing done.

I have a friend who is a DNA analyst at Quantico. She's often frustrated by backlog/workload. Just what I've heard her say.


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[doubtingthomas]

Hello WS posters. I have been following this for the last couple weeks. Have also been reading news reports about this case. I won't mention any names but will reference an article I read that caught my attention. Just wanted to know opinions or if I am reading too much into this. From this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-one-murdered-Indiana-teens-speaks-out.html

The grandfather said that he didn't know Abigail Williams but that at first, he wasn't worried about the two friends.
'Or maybe Abby got into a fight with someone and they were hiding out at her 18-year-old brother's house?

I don't remember reading that Abby had a brother (which is no big deal) but he states he didn't know Abby yet he knew she had an 18 year old brother.

'Family called from Delphi to see if Libby had come to Flora and if we had seen her' he said. 'The first thing on our minds was that she might have ran away, maybe she was trying to get to her mom's [in Kentucky].

My first thought was, why would he think she would try to run away.

Am I reading too much into this? Thoughts?

 

[heaterann]

Why would that be frustrating? Everyone has opinions here. We need to tread carefully in regards to these girls. WAS is very victim friendly.

It's also their (our) right to opinion that they weren't doing ANYTHING other than what they appeared to be doing. Enjoying a nice day. Hiking a nice trail. Enjoying each other's company.
Wearing appropriate clothing for the outing, etc.

I have no problem reading your views. They don't mesh with mine maybe, but the only thing frustrating here is that this pig of a is still free.


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Its frustrating because theres no way that anyone could possibly know who these girls were like based off of a picture. If people think they can tell if someone is "innocent" "nice" "natural looking" "normal" based off of a few pictures I am just floored by that whole concept. Like I said being victim friendly is one thing ie we should not make rude comments about them or their family but to do the complete opposite with nothing to go on but a few pics does not seem in the spirit of sleuthing.... I hope the LE dont take that same approach.... well they look innocent so lets just focus on the pic of the BG and not look into these girls social media pages, their friends, or their lives??? JMO

 

[St. Anthony2017]

Absolutely!! Great idea. Those flyers should be in such places. These people live off the grid with their own set of woes, challenges and sub culture. Most may even be unaware of what happened.

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I don't think he is a transient. I think he has a car or truck and gets income from the government because he can't get a job. May be an ex-con who is angry that he got caught before and is a RSO for life.

 

[Scarlett12]

What about, "...no case is close to being developed "? That doesn't say to me that they know who did it.

I think they have a good idea and are just linking all of the facts


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[kittymittons]

I am not sure that there's any way to figure out who BG is based on the way the girls were dressed, personally. If they were wearing a renaissance festival costume or something maybe that could lead us to speculate that BG might also be dressed for teh same festival and that he therefore might be a renaissance festival enthusiast, which could lead us to search photos of people who do that around there, for example... but I personally - JMO - just am not certain how this line of thought can help, but I know for a fact it can hurt if their family members or friends or loved ones are reading here, which is usually the case. all JMO and please don't think I'm attacking you or your post.. I agree that ignoring a potential line of sleuthing is a disservice to the girls, but I just am not sure that they all belong in full-view here given the rules of the site and so on...

all JMO, and again, please don't take offense. I'm just explaining where perhaps some of the resistance to this line of conversation is coming from. IMO

Agreed. I don't think in this case their appearance gives us any clues besides what a sick the perp is.

It also shouldn't matter if you look sweet and innocent or not. Any victim regardless of their appearance/makeup/clothing choices is a victim, and their appearance is not something they should be judged for. Not saying anyone here is doing that, the thought just popped in my head.

Someones appearance doesn't make anyone any less of a victim (I get the idea that appearance may help to figure out clues of the perp, in this case I think it's too vague.) JMO.


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[Burnt Toast]

BBM
How would you know how Libby was dressed that day? I've never seen any photos of her from that day.

it was reported that Libby had on a tie dye shirt with fringe on the bottom and grey sweat pants. I am assuming this comes from whoever dropped them off or saw her leave the house that day.

 

[Nonna Gigi]

I cannot imagine how long it takes or the manpower needed to trawl through all those tips. 13000? It baffles me how they manage it. And they're still asking for more.

Actually that's the part that is being handled by the FBI. They have some kind of super computer program that catalogs all the information from tips entered into the system and manipulates it to make sense of such a huge data base. (I'm loosely para-phrasing what the program does.) I don't recall the name of it, but it was mentioned in the following podcast with the head FBI agent who was in charge of the 1993 murder case of Polly Klaas. The program was in it's infancy at that time, and was called one thing. Then they continued to improve it and in it's current version, it's called something different now. It was a two-parter podcast, I think it was in this one - Part 1
http://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-h783z-2235b85

 

[WebSight]

As a mom of a 14yo dd, I don't find Abby's attire strange at all. My dd, who is 14yo (also a 16yo dd), would totally dress this way to go out with a friend for the day...even hiking...and especially if she thought pics might be taken and posted on Instagram or snapchat. Very normal looking dress to me.

And, why is it okay to assume that two friends would dress exactly alike and then to assume that because one seems a little more put together on a given day that there is a "reason" for it?

Our daughters are very different: my younger one is more fashion conscious than my older one, with the younger looking trendy even around the house, where her older sister has on jeans, t-shirt, pony-tail and feels like she is lookin' good and good to go (which she most certainly is IMO)! But they are the best of friends with a thousand common interests other than clothes, shoes and hair styles.

So, I agree that I do not find anything telling in what Abby is wearing and I think she looks totally casual anyway.

I think that reading too much into the word "hike" can cause a misunderstanding as to the appropriateness of dress in this case. The girls were "hiking around" which is very different from an actual hike.

The girls went here often, probably crossed that bridge often. It is known to be a popular spot with the teens in the area.

They were dropped of for a few hours of "hiking around" and taking pictures. So, again the mode of dress for either girls was appropriate.

JMO, of course.

 

[Novelist]

Hello WS posters. I have been following this for the last couple weeks. Have also been reading news reports about this case. I won't mention any names but will reference an article I read that caught my attention. Just wanted to know opinions or if I am reading too much into this. From this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-one-murdered-Indiana-teens-speaks-out.html

The grandfather said that he didn't know Abigail Williams but that at first, he wasn't worried about the two friends.
'Or maybe Abby got into a fight with someone and they were hiding out at her 18-year-old brother's house?

I don't remember reading that Abby had a brother (which is no big deal) but he states he didn't know Abby yet he knew she had an 18 year old brother.

'Family called from Delphi to see if Libby had come to Flora and if we had seen her' he said. 'The first thing on our minds was that she might have ran away, maybe she was trying to get to her mom's [in Kentucky].

My first thought was, why would he think she would try to run away.

Am I reading too much into this? Thoughts?

I too will not mention any names as per ToS. I will just say that this line of thinking is what I consider outside the box and needs to be followed further...in that you need to follow your instincts and ask the hard questions here.

MOO

 

[ocgrad]

Here is a thought that I have not seen before.

Just speculating.

The BG appears to be moving towards the girls in an aggressive way in the very last photo.

It almost looks like they are trapped on one of those little wooden edges that stick out the side of the bridge. Like maybe they were even contemplating jumping off to get away from him.

So if that is the case then it means someone else could be coming up from the south way and coming at them too. They could really be trapped there by two people coming at them from both directions.

Im wondering if maybe they had already been on the ground and looking around on the ground when two perps spotted them and began chasing after them. They made it to the bridge and one perp went up one end of the bridge and the other perp ran across underneath the bridge to the
other side and went up the bridge on the other side to trap them on the bridge.

A person running on the ground underneath the bridge could make his way to the other end much faster than the girls trying to cross the bridge. Which could explain how they did not manage to make it off the end before being trapped.

I think BG is aggressively coming for them, at least for Abby (because I do think that's the edge of her hoodie left in the first photo). His leg is lifted the way it would be if he were running, not walking. And I think his hand is drawn back to pull a weapon (a knife or gun - even though he has one under his jacket that doesn't mean he couldn't have another on his hip), and I think all this action on that bridge is why Libby was able to record him without him knowing.

 

[whiskers]

I too will not mention any names as per ToS. I will just say that this line of thinking is what I consider outside the box and needs to be followed further...in that you need to follow your instincts and ask the hard questions here.

MOO

ITA. Hopefully LE is interviewing everyone the girls knew and related to. I'm sure they are.

 

[IllinoisMissing]

Its frustrating because theres no way that anyone could possibly know who these girls were like based off of a picture. If people think they can tell if someone is "innocent" "nice" "natural looking" "normal" based off of a few pictures I am just floored by that whole concept. Like I said being victim friendly is one thing ie we should not make rude comments about them or their family but to do the complete opposite with nothing to go on but a few pics does not seem in the spirit of sleuthing.... I hope the LE dont take that same approach.... well they look innocent so lets just focus on the pic of the BG and not look into these girls social media pages, their friends, or their lives??? JMO

I feel confident that LE has thoroughly examined the girls social media.

So let's pretend that 100% of us agree that one of the girls was meeting up with someone. Now tell me what we, as members here, do with that?

We can't sleuth their friends or family or random friends on their social media and discuss it here, so I'm not understanding where you're going with this?

We can, and some have, sleuthed away, but it can't be discussed here, so it isn't.

Now I'm frustrated.

JMO

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[Elley Mae]

I'm not sure LE can get a DNA sample from someone they bring in for questioning, who has an alibi, which at the time, they can't prove is false?

According to what i have read a felony gives them your dna, not sure if they are able to have a person come in for questioning offer them a can of soda then collect it after they leave. Jmo

 

[Cryptic]

Since LE is determined to save any critical updates until they absolutely need public assistance, I gotta work backwards. Starting with : Why were the girls there ? Why was BG there? Do you believe in coincidences ? Fine if you do, I just am not a believer that this vulnerable twosome was out there at the very far end of the trail to go hike on a day off. Again, which teens do you ever see do that at that age? Usually if you see teens out in the country they are partying and that's the 15-20 age group.

I can see your point, and I agree that it is statistically unlikely that two teenage girls would opt for hiking on a day off from school. At the same time, two rural girls opting for this activity on a trail that is well known in the local area is not unheard of.

As for the presence of BG, he could well have been pre-disposed to commit a horrific crime and have been "trawling" in an area that he felt comfortable in. If his mood, the victims, and the immediate environment (lack of witnesses) were all "right", BG would initiate the crime. If something changed, BG would break off the crime.

Such a mindset would not require alot of planning by BG. Rather, it would just require nerve and waiting for the "right" set of circumstances in an area that he frequented.

Returning to the other possibility that you mentioned (a meeting for a specific purpose), a very extensive search of social media, cell phone logs etc. has not suggested that the crime occurred following a meeting. Even still, the meeting could have been arranged by an intermediary using old fashioned verbal instructions.

Though it is unlikely that follow on instructions or secondary conversations would not have been done electronically, it probably cant be ruled out either. Thus, I don't think the suggestion of a meeting should be condemned out of hand.

 

[Novelist]

I feel confident that LE has thoroughly examined the girls social media.

So let's pretend that 100% of us agree that one of the girls was meeting up with someone. Now tell me what we, as members here, do with that?

We can't sleuth their friends or family or random friends on their social media, so I'm not understanding where you're going with this?

We can, and some have, sleuthed away, but it can't be discussed here, so it isn't.

Now I'm frustrated.

JMO

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Yes, we can sleuth their friends and family. No, we cannot talk about it here. But if there is something that doesn't ring true or something that feels out of place, we all know the tip line is still open.

MOO

 

[Wraith13th]

After looking at the picture of BG yet again I think I too can finally make out the outline of a gun under his right side. It looks as if it's in a shoulder harness that you would pull out with your left hand only he is reaching up high with his right to pull it out thus his hand is higher going under the jacket and shirt more exposed on that side. Maybe to not seem so obvious to the girls as he approaches. As for the thing around his neck, it almost looks like a skull design face warmer or bandanna to me. JMO...

 

[Hazelnutty]

Here is a thought that I have not seen before.

Just speculating.

The BG appears to be moving towards the girls in an aggressive way in the very last photo.

It almost looks like they are trapped on one of those little wooden edges that stick out the side of the bridge. Like maybe they were even contemplating jumping off to get away from him.

So if that is the case then it means someone else could be coming up from the south way and coming at them too. They could really be trapped there by two people coming at them from both directions.

Im wondering if maybe they had already been on the ground and looking around on the ground when two perps spotted them and began chasing after them. They made it to the bridge and one perp went up one end of the bridge and the other perp ran across underneath the bridge to the
other side and went up the bridge on the other side to trap them on the bridge.

A person running on the ground underneath the bridge could make his way to the other end much faster than the girls trying to cross the bridge. Which could explain how they did not manage to make it off the end before being trapped.

I like this theory. I sometimes wonder if BG was the one under the bridge watching and listening to the girls. Possibly while they were talking and taking pics and enjoying themselves, oblivious to this monster until it was too late.

 

[ninij9]

Hello WS posters. I have been following this for the last couple weeks. Have also been reading news reports about this case. I won't mention any names but will reference an article I read that caught my attention. Just wanted to know opinions or if I am reading too much into this. From this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-one-murdered-Indiana-teens-speaks-out.html

The grandfather said that he didn't know Abigail Williams but that at first, he wasn't worried about the two friends.
'Or maybe Abby got into a fight with someone and they were hiding out at her 18-year-old brother's house?

I don't remember reading that Abby had a brother (which is no big deal) but he states he didn't know Abby yet he knew she had an 18 year old brother.

'Family called from Delphi to see if Libby had come to Flora and if we had seen her' he said. 'The first thing on our minds was that she might have ran away, maybe she was trying to get to her mom's [in Kentucky].

My first thought was, why would he think she would try to run away.

Am I reading too much into this? Thoughts?

I'm not sure, but I don't think Mr bridge was too involved in his granddaughter Libby's life. It's only a feeling. An opinion.

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