IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #39

[GhostGhost]

For a victim bleeding out and dying, that area might as well be miles away from any help. That's the spot that I think a killer would take someone (just looking at the map and not having ever been there myself) to commit the crime. The water would be a bonus because he could wash up after.

This guy is physically fit. He knows the area, he is comfortable being outdoors for long periods of time and is calm and cool (judging from the voice) which suggests an older, more experienced individual. He's been around the block, so to speak. The long hike from the bridge to the actual spot where the girls were found served many purposes maybe--- one, it took the victims to a secluded and most likely deserted area far from help. Two, it made the girls physically tired and weak as they were likely not accustomed to walking for any long distances in that type of weather/rugged terrain. The killer held all of the cards.

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I don't think it's a long hike.

About a mile from where they were dropped off.


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[FreeRoad]

But the ravines of the area are not as defined from the air footage

You are right- I myself use the topo maps to inject that information. I was trying to assist those here who are having trouble understanding the distances and cardinal directions of the sites we are commonly discussing. I was just trying to palatably present one more tool.

I think the issue of the terrain is a subjective one. Obviously, not the terrain itself, but the "ease" of navigating it. I myself have, in the past often "walked" that kind of slope- not on a rugged hiking trip, but just out for a walk. I have a Forrester friend who does it 10-14 hours a day for his job; my mother would find it impossible. I live now in an area very similar to Delphi's terrain, and the "kids" here spend their days out prowling around the hills, as I get the impression Abby and Libby were known to do. Most of them do it in sneakers and sweatshirts, not heavy boots and technical clothing. Kids who grow up in "rustic" areas might very well think nothing of terrain like this.

So, I mean no disrespect or even argument with you. Just trying to understand what I can, myself, and help others to find new ways to see what they can't make sense of.

MOO

 

[Bemused]

I can't get past they have not officially ruled him out. He's a longtime member of the community. The LEOs have to know all the rumors and speculation. I don't see that standing unless there is a very good reason for them to not clear him.

I also do not think if they were truly clueless where it was headed that they wouldn't be back holding press conferences and releasing a bit more info to identify and catch him or them while memories are fresher.

 

[Cryptonite]

I've been lurking mostly ,have made a few post.I have listen to your theories and some have seemed fair and others ,well wow what can I say.I first thought of a drifter riding the rails,why cause he could stay in the woods unnoticed this time of year ,easy access to town taking the trail.I know the Andersons to the north which is a grain operation will load rail cars with grain and then load to rail stopping the flow of train traffic to get hitched to the cars.There are 2 layover tracks nearby 1 up by Rockfield the other south of Delhi a short distance. Could be possible imho.we have several workers from outside the area putting up large power lines stretching several miles,there not locAL people.

 

[GhostGhost]

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Jeans clean and in good condition.

 

[Cryptonite]

You are right- I myself use the topo maps to inject that information. I was trying to assist those here who are having trouble understanding the distances and cardinal directions of the sites we are commonly discussing. I was just trying to palatably present one more tool.

I think the issue of the terrain is a subjective one. Obviously, not the terrain itself, but the "ease" of navigating it. I myself have, in the past often "walked" that kind of slope- not on a rugged hiking trip, but just out for a walk. I have a Forrester friend who does it 10-14 hours a day for his job; my mother would find it impossible. I live now in an area very similar to Delphi's terrain, and the "kids" here spend their days out prowling around the hills, as I get the impression Abby and Libby were known to do. Most of them do it in sneakers and sweatshirts, not heavy boots and technical clothing. Kids who grow up in "rustic" areas might very well think nothing of terrain like this.

So, I mean no disrespect or even argument with you. Just trying to understand what I can, myself, and help others to find new ways to see what they can't make sense of.

MOO

No argument at all but that section from there and farther east I have listen to many old time hunters refer it to devils backbone

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I've been lurking mostly ,have made a few post.I have listen to your theories and some have seemed fair and others ,well wow what can I say.I first thought of a drifter riding the rails,why cause he could stay in the woods unnoticed this time of year ,easy access to town taking the trail.I know the Andersons to the north which is a grain operation will load rail cars with grain and then load to rail stopping the flow of train traffic to get hitched to the cars.There are 2 layover tracks nearby 1 up by Rockfield the other south of Delhi a short distance. Could be possible imho.we have several workers from outside the area putting up large power lines stretching several miles,there not locAL people.

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Thanks, your posts are helpful and are answering a lot of questions. :welcome:

Do you have a theory on whether the perp is local or not? Sounds, like you may feel he is an out of towner?

 

[Yvettea]

I've been lurking mostly ,have made a few post.I have listen to your theories and some have seemed fair and others ,well wow what can I say.I first thought of a drifter riding the rails,why cause he could stay in the woods unnoticed this time of year ,easy access to town taking the trail.I know the Andersons to the north which is a grain operation will load rail cars with grain and then load to rail stopping the flow of train traffic to get hitched to the cars.There are 2 layover tracks nearby 1 up by Rockfield the other south of Delhi a short distance. Could be possible imho.we have several workers from outside the area putting up large power lines stretching several miles,there not locAL people.

I also thought of a drifter staying in the woods until I looked at the nighttime lows in the area (some nights near zero.) Bad time for overnight camping.

 

[Cryptonite]

My first thought was what I had posted,but now I have to think local

 

[Beth11311]

It's not uncommon for police to have a very strong idea of who is responsible. The problem is having enough evidence (probable cause) to arrest the person and charge that person with the crimes committed.

There was a serial killer operating in Honolulu, Hawaii a long time ago. Police had a strong suspect and he worked in the area where the bodies were found. He also drove a vehicle similar to the one seen by witnesses. The guy skipped town and the murders stopped.

Thank you - I'm well aware of the need for probable cause to be able to arrest, and the need to have all of their ducks in a row so to speak, to ensure a successful trial. What I want to know is why in this particular case people feel that LE has their man, I guess I'm asking if there is evidence that I've missed or if it's just a feeling based on past cases.

 

[GhostGhost]

I also thought of a drifter staying in the woods until I looked at the nighttime lows in the area (some nights near zero.) Bad time for overnight camping.

And I think those jeans were worn for hours, not days.


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[Cryptonite]

Do we know of any people on the bridge area on the 12 th which was sunday

 

[BigCityAccountant]

My first thought was what I had posted,but now I have to think local

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In your personal opinion and the talk around town, does it seem like RL is involved in some capacity?

 

[Patriot10]

Terrain is very, very rough from what I have read.

The serial profiler talks about "comfort zones" when it comes to committing a crime. Serial killers often start their crimes close to home where they are most comfortable. To commit a full-blown, kidnapping and double-murder in broad daylight carries extreme risk. Too risky for someone from the outside or a non-local, imho.

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I don't think it's a long hike.

About a mile from where they were dropped off.


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[Gisjoe]

Maybe someone has mentioned this. What about that storage place across the street and to the west of where they were dropped off? I've read stories of people actually living in storage units. Sounds like a convenient place to have a kill kit handy. If you were planning on an event like this at the bridge.
I know storage places usually have security cameras. But maybe not? Just trying to throw ideas out there. If the police wanted to search such a place, would they need a search warrant for each storage unit? Or could they search all of them with one.

This is all MOO of course.




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[Deleted member 718]

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Jeans clean and in good condition.

Yep, he appears clean enough although I can't tell if he's had a recent bath.

I wonder how he looked afterwards.

Does anyone know if the coroner came to the scene? tia.

 

[Jethro4WS]

There is NO hiking off trail there. Its all private property when you get off that bridge and the park at the very beginning of the trail where the parking is located. Three-quarters of a mile away (where the girls were found) is NOT on a trail. It's all private. No one is "hiking" there.

People likely don't worry about private property as much as you emphasize. Unless there is a fence people will go off into wooded areas whether it is private property or not and property owners aren't going to be spending hours and hours of their day policing their land - they would quite literally not be able to do anything else if they even tried policing it - that can be accessed from several directions or even out of their sight.

Everyone's experience is different, but it has been my experience with large pieces of land like we see there that people pretty much don't care about people passing through or walking a path (I see people everyday on the path down the back out my window) so long as they don't come around the house and things like that or they don't go building deer stands or hunting without permission or shooting without permission or decide they are going to set up a meth lab or think your property is a good place to have drug transactions. But people that aren't causing any trouble aren't any bother. Again, your experience may be different.

 

[FreeRoad]

I meant the crime scene where the girls were found. That area looks to be very remote and far, far away from any sort of help.

There are several homes and farms within a 3000-foot (1/2-mile) radius of where their bodies were found.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Delphi,+IN+46923/@40.588215,-86.6385381,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x881309e3541d5d2b:0xf17e204b5559ad82!8m2!3d40.5875371!4d-86.6750059

Astounding, maddening. JMO

 

[Patriot10]

And I think those jeans were worn for hours, not days.


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Some serial killers carry their tools of the trade in a vehicle, but this perp I think carried his tools on his person....rope hidden under his jacket, weapon (gun) in his jacket pocket or a holster.

The crime required time and patience. The patience of an older man and even of a hunter waiting in a treestand for a deer to come along. I wouldn't be surprised if he had been roaming those woods on different days during different times of the year, just waiting for the right victim and for the right set of circumstances to come along. That tells me he's from the area. He's a local.

 

[Cryptonite]

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In your personal opinion and the talk around town, does it seem like RL is involved in some capacity?

It actually amazes me to think so ,I don't know him but imho he could know something,LE has been tight lipped here and I understand why Is RL BG isRL don't think so