IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #40

[liltexans]

Refusing would look pretty darn suspicious if two girls are just presumed missing,

I doubt he refused, but that's MOO. I think if he had, the Inside Edition reporter would have asked him why he refused to let people search his property.

 

[tokyorose]

Refusing would look pretty darn suspicious if two girls are just presumed missing,

Perhaps, that would depend on how you framed your answer. "Well, the sun has already set and it's pretty dark out there, why don't you wait until morning because I wouldn't want anyone to get hurt on my property, I'd feel terrible" Besides, I doubt they'd be here.

 

[expatCanada]

PC? Explain.

My understanding is that the 4th waiver allows for warrantless searches but doesn't have anything to do with PC. Is that incorrect?

 

[expatCanada]

Never mind. Misread. oops

Do we even know if RL knew the search was still continuing on the morning of 2/14? Small town farmers and landowners are known to go into town for breakfast and coffee. My grandfather met his buddies in town *daily* for their morning cofee and chatter.

As another posted noted, at this time the girls were known only as missing and possibly runaways. We have no idea what he saw when he left on the morning of 2/14. They weren't found into later. Maybe no one around his home was searching at that time and he didn't feel it was a big deal to go into town.

 

[liltexans]

Do we even know if RL knew the search was still continuing on the morning of 2/14? Small town farmers and landowners are known to go into town for breakfast and coffee. My grandfather met his buddies in town *daily* for their morning cofee and chatter.

As another posted noted, at this time the girls were known only as missing and possibly runaways. We have no idea what he saw when he left on the morning of 2/14. They weren't found into later. Maybe no one around his home was searching at that time and he didn't feel it was a big deal to go into town.

No, we don't know what RL knew or didn't know that morning or why he went into town. He may have had a previously scheduled appointment in town or he might have been going for his morning coffee or any number of things.

 

[tokyorose]

I doubt he refused, but that's MOO. I think if he had, the Inside Edition reporter would have asked him why he refused to let people search his property.

What if they inside edition reporter made the same assumption we all have? Clearly it's MOO here, but I think it's possible he did deny permission that night.. JMO without any confirmation to the contrary.

 

[Burnt Toast]

I live in Australia in the blue mountains, raised all my kids here and the place is covered in bushwalks, or trails as called in the US. There is no way I or anyone else we know would drop two teen girls off somewhere like that so they could take pics, maybe if they were older or had a chaperone but not at that age. I think it's telling that the sister dropped them off, I doubt the parents would have because most parents would find that a little worrying.
As for the description from LE, it's vague to say the least I have seen hoodie in one description, brown hair in another....

i would have had absolutely zero problems dropping off a 13 and 14 year old off for a two hour walk on a beautiful day not far from home, on trails they had been on many many times. Especially in a area with virtually no crime.

 

[Bemused]

We don't know why he went into Delphi that morning. Dr appt, see his probation officer, bank, etc. Do people think he should have helped search? Or what? Just curious.

No, IMO, he left for one reason or maybe both. He knew what they would find so he was afraid he would appear too nervous, and/or he wanted to appear unconcerned to police. MOO

 

[ninij9]

IMHO, had he refused permission we would have heard about it, either officially or thru interviews with locals. With all the finger pointing it would have been front page news on SM. My opinion only, of course.

To add to the fact that they did indeed gain access to his property, therefore finding the girls. I think this is a moot point.

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[expatCanada]

Disagree. He waived his rights as part of his plea deal.

I don't agree. Imho, calling it a warrant with probable cause means exactly that, there is probable cause, not just that he has ambiguous rights due to his probation. And in order to present any evidence in a trial, LE would definitely secure a proabable cause warrant to search to eliminate any defense strategy to prevent the evidence from being presented in court.

 

[liltexans]

What if they inside edition reporter made the same assumption we all have? Clearly it's MOO here, but I think it's possible he did deny permission that night.. JMO without any confirmation to the contrary.

We really don't have evidence either way, but that is something that a reporter might have found out and jumped on if they heard he refused. I just don't think he refused, but we don't know for sure.

 

[MistyWaters]

The latest Gray H video really put's things in perspective in regards to the bridge.
I'm a woman, I was once a 14 year old girl and the girls going there in the first place makes zero sense to me or my two teenage daughters for that matter.
I'm stuck on my original gut instinct that they were meeting someone.
Why would two young teens want to get dropped off by themselves in a fairly remote area to take pics?
I have kind off pushed that piece of info to the side but I can't stop thinking this was just an excuse they told they're parents to go there. I also remember one of the first interviews with LE when they stated that parent's need to pay attention and be aware of whats going on in they're kids lives or something along those lines.
To me this is an obvious read between the lines statement when I watch it again.
Think about where they were dropped off and where they could go from there?
No where but over the bridge and back again, there doesn't seem to be any other off trails or anything so we are to believe they had planned on spending a couple of hours on a trail that takes 20 mins or so to walk? Sorry don't believe it for a minute and I honestly think one of the girls was lured there to meet someone but that someone was not who they were expecting....

I also think BG is wearing a bucket hat not a hood, something like thisView attachment 113766

Thanks, some valid, thought provoking points.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I'm talking specifically about the evening of 2/13 when he returned from Lafayette, not the next morning when they resumed the search. And whether they needed to or not, they did ask. Do we know if it was LE that asked him on 2/13? If not then searchers would not be aware of the legalities regarding his probation and rights to search and seizure. I think it's pretty relevant to the case if he refused to have his property searched on the evening of 2/13.

I don't know what the terms of RL's probation is, but "if" the terms are that his person or property is open for a search without a warrant and he refused a search that would be a probation violation. I'm not saying that's what happened - just throwing it out there.


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[ninij9]

I can't link very well with my phone, but perhaps someone could link the definition of Probable cause warrant in a homicide? Or do we have any resident lawyers or legal peeps on here tonight?

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[tokyorose]

To add to the fact that they did indeed gain access to his property, therefore finding the girls. I think this is a moot point.

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Wouldn't it have mattered on the night of 2/13 if he denied permission? it would have given him a lot of time. OK, I'll stop since I"m alone on this one. I'll just file it away as another detail I don't know that would help me figure things out.

 

[lonetraveler]

I would agree with this, but who goes to a place like that expecting to find young girls? That doesnt make sense. But like I said, without knowing COD which would give us a better idea of motive then I dont know if this is, which I expect it to be, sexually motivated then going to that area prepared makes no sense at all. Unless he knew they would be there.

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I don't think he had a particular type of target in mind but instead was looking for any female who would be an easy target.

 

[ninij9]

Does anyone know if RL, or any person close to the girls and/or the girls family, are breeding pigs?
(I know it seems like an odd question but I do have a good reason to ask)


On another note;
One of my suspects, who lives a bit south of Delphi, popped up in the media in a video interview just hours before the image of BG was released by the media, in that interview my suspect was wearing a brown hoodie, has reddish hair and had a bit of a beard.

Oddly enough yesterday I fund another recent (dated ca 1 week ago, ca 5 weeks after the first interview) media-interview with the very same man AGAIN being interviewed about the girls murder.
And there is nothing that indicate that this man has any particular reason to be re-interviewed like having some connection to any of the girls or their families.

Isn't that kind of odd that he was re-interviewd ?

So now I wonder why media interviewed him again ?

Did he kind of mingle himself into the location where media, covering the case, was doing their thing?
Did police, for whatever reason, ask someone from media to interview the guy ?
Or was it just a coincident?

Can you share the link?

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[tokyorose]

We really don't have evidence either way, but that is something that a reporter might have found out and jumped on if they heard he refused. I just don't think he refused, but we don't know for sure.

Just to clear things up for me though, didn't we end up deciding here that his property was not searched on 2/13?

 

[expatCanada]

I posted this many times.The defendant's probation shall be supervised. The terms of probation are set forth in the Order on Probation and include the following: waiver of 4th amendment rights against search and seizure; participation in a drug and alcohol program at mental health and substance abuse evaluation; initial probation users fee in the sum of $100 and monthly probation users fee in the sum of $30; $100.00 probation administrative fee; no criminal violations; and no alcohol consumption.

I don't know what the terms of RL's probation is, but "if" the terms are that his person or property is open for a search without a warrant and he refused a search that would be a probation violation. I'm not saying that's what happened - just throwing it out there.


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[Hazelnutty]

Ugh, sounds almost like Jon Benet Ramsey musings..

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I thought the very same thing! And, the video shared with the LEO freaky smile made me think of BR just before that. :-/