IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

[Eileen730]

Jmo a drug dealer who would murder two young girls would be likely on LE's radar and they would know where to look for him. Also when drug dealers DO kill, they tend to shoot and run, leaving the bodies where they are, like with drive-bys. Anyway, I feel 99% certain this was a sex assault...1% aimed at one of the girls. Jmo

Well they sure called in he calvary.
Put up billboards.

 

[Wsimm]

if we did know the driver we would not be able to sleuth them.

True.....I was just wondering if anyone else thought this interesting and what their thoughts about this might be?

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

Rage over what ?

Revenge for what when it doesn't seem like he knew them and it seems like a chance encounter ?

Rage? A mentally unhinged person can rage over anything and take it out on anyone or anything that happens to be nearby . I've seen it myself way too many times in my life

 

[St. Anthony2017]

Such as?

Maybe they didn't know BG but they recognized his "date."

 

[NightOwl77]

If a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound if no one is there to hear it?

The heavy article and news reports say there were people there though... There was a lady that crossed right after they did and a couple as well. So if the killer and the girls were there. She was there too... at the same time and another couple. So that's three people that could have seen or heard them if they were there. :

[A woman who was at the bridge commented on a Facebook post by a family member of one of the girls, saying she had been at the bridge shortly after the girls posted the photo. She said she didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary.


“I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) a guy when I first got there and another couple once I got on the bridge,” Cheyenne Mekisha Engles wrote. “I didn’t see the girls at all. I also didn’t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.”]

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/

 

[Mainemom76]

Rage? A mentally unhinged person can rage over anything and take it out on anyone or anything that happens to be nearby . I've seen it myself way too many times in my life

IMO this has nothing to do with rage. This was a planned, targeted murder. This is someone who is known to one of the girls family members. This is NOT random. This is not about trespassing. JMO

 

[sumzero]

Rage over what ?

Revenge for what when it doesn't seem like he knew them and it seems like a chance encounter ?

Good question. Are we supposed to believe he didn't want them on his property so he disguised himself as someone younger, sucked in his gut, took off his glasses, and crossed the bridge ... in order to chase or force them to his property where he didn't want them in the first place? Please.

 

[Boxeador]

Where is that entrance on N300W? I'd like to locate it on a map.

Here is the article in closing the parking area art the 300 entrance.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Is there an article or statement by LE that says the FBI had anything to do with preparing the warrant? Carroll County Sheriff's Department is in charge of the investigation.

DELPHI, Ind. (CBSNews) — Indiana State Police, the FBI and Carroll County sheriff’s deputies are serving a search warrant Friday (Mar. 17) in connection with the murders of two Delphi teens.

http://5newsonline.com/2017/03/18/a...me-in-connection-with-murder-of-delphi-teens/

Sheriff Tobe Leazenby told Radar exclusively, “The FBI, State Police and local police applied for a search warrant for the property owned by Ronald Logan, who is currently in custody.”

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-ne...abigail-williams-liberty-german-bodies-found/

 

[expatCanada]

http://www.newsbug.info/monticello_...cle_9f53101a-199f-11e7-b5f4-a3a21ffea83d.html

Here is the article in closing the parking area art the 300 entrance.

 

[Confusion]

The heavy article and news reports say there were people there though... There was a lady that crossed right after they did and a couple as well. So if the killer and the girls were there. She was there too... at the same time and another couple. So that's three people that could have seen or heard them if they were there. :

[A woman who was at the bridge commented on a Facebook post by a family member of one of the girls, saying she had been at the bridge shortly after the girls posted the photo. She said she didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary.


“I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) a guy when I first got there and another couple once I got on the bridge,” Cheyenne Mekisha Engles wrote. “I didn’t see the girls at all. I also didn’t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.”]

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/

I have been wondering if anyone had heard anything from or about the couple, now I wonder even more.

 

[NightOwl77]

I think we have to keep in mind that after Libby got the video, things likely escalated very quickly and the presence of mind that Libby had initially was not likely to have been the case as the crime unfolded. Plus, they were both still children. I can only imagine the level of terror they felt in what was probably a very fluid situation, and I doubt that they would have perceived themselves in a position of trying to take control or run away, particularly if either was threatened with causing the death of the other upon any attempt to run or refusal to obey.

From what I heard in that audio, he was not taking No for an answer.

Maybe it did escalate quickly, but walking down the hill, across the stream and up over the next bank all takes time. Time the victims have to think about escaping or resisting. And there were 3 people in the vicinity during all of this (if it went down that way) that probably could be seen or heard as well. It's just getting less and less likely to me that a struggle or something didn't ensue if they weren't put in a car and driven away and brought back later. Adrenalin is pretty strong bodily response to resist when it kicks it... it actually makes your brain think fight or flight. It's a survival mechanism. And resisting that physiological response given the place, time of day and other people in the area (and the parents coming soon as well) which could be heard or seen just doesn't jive for me. Maybe it went down that way -- (walk over and immedicate kill), but I don't see the logic in it from the killer's standpoint or from the victims. It doesn't add up for me.

 

[otto]

Otto, if you look on this link that ex pat has provided, that plot is listed as only 2 acres as I had remembered so 200ft could be significant.
(TY for posting this ex pat)

Check this site as well.
I can't explain the discrepancy

http://maps.indiana.edu/index.html

 

[Ghosthunter]

Maybe the victims were killed quickly and a sexual assault happened post mortem. Some killers have to have victims that are deceased to sexually assault. Necrophiliacs. Jmo

 

[Mainemom76]

Check this site as well.
I can't explain the discrepancy

http://maps.indiana.edu/index.html

What are we looking at here? Sorry!!

 

[expatCanada]

Otto is using a different map that the one I supplied. I supplied the Carroll County property appraisal district map for taxes paid each year per the amount of land/home you own.

https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=377&LayerID=5553&PageTypeID=1

Just click on each parcel to see how big the area is and who owns it.

What are we looking at here? Sorry!!

 

[St. Anthony2017]

then you would take their phone, not kill them.

They would still be able to tell others what they saw.

 

[jillycat]

Maybe it did escalate quickly, but walking down the hill, across the stream and up over the next bank all takes time. Time the victims have to think about escaping or resisting. And there were 3 people in the vicinity during all of this (if it went down that way) that probably could be seen or heard as well. It's just getting less and less likely to me that a struggle or something didn't ensue if they weren't put in a car and driven away and brought back later. Adrenalin is pretty strong bodily response to resist when it kicks it... it actually makes your brain think fight or flight. It's a survival mechanism. And resisting that physiological response given the place, time of day and other people in the area (and the parents coming soon as well) which could be heard or seen just doesn't jive for me. Maybe it went down that way -- (walk over and immedicate kill), but I don't see the logic in it from the killer's standpoint or from the victims. It doesn't add up for me.

These were kids. And we don't know what he said or did to compel them to go down that hill, assuming they did just that. He may have been talking the entire time, threatening, and making a good case for remaining silent. He may have said 'do as I say and you'll be home for dinner'...we have no idea what that exchange was about once he had them in his control. There may have then been a struggle at the scene once it was clear this was headed in the direction it obviously went.

It just sounds like the girls are being characterized as having an adult ability to do what we would do, as we think about this from afar, as adults. I can buy that they, or at least Libby, fought back. I don't seen any logic in taking them away in a car, or spending time with them in a building, or moving them back to where they were found because it's too labor and time intensive and it would have been taking place in the dark.

I don't think they were walked to that area and immediately killed, but I do think they were taken there, assaulted and then killed, either after the assault, or as a result of it. And some tape or a gag stops the noise of resistance. He took two kids in broad daylight and successfully ended their lives while no one was the wiser or saw a thing (to the best of our knowledge). I'm sure he thought through how to prevent them from drawing attention to his abduction and the subsequent crime activity.

 

[lonetraveler]

What if they caught him cheating?

Cheating?

 

[Deleted member 155000]

then you would take their phone, not kill them.

Even if you understood phones have clouds? Maybe you'd be so mad about the risk...

I think we generally agree. I am just thinking through what might provoke their paranoia.


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