IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #48

[infarmgurl]

Eh... but that's say 12 years on a drug conviction (and I'm assuming 12 years is a guess since I know depending on the specifics and even the judge and state laws drug sentences can vary wildly) vs life in prison without parole for murder. That's quite a gamble.


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RL does not have a speach writer or editor.. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...berty-German-14-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-46/page5ff

 

[Hazelnutty]

Sorry just getting caught up today....

RSBBM:

Could it be possible, RL wanted a ride into town and he let a stranger drive him there? Someone he just met? Just thinking out loud.

I like that thought. The possibility of RL riding passenger hadn't occurred to me at all!

 

[Beth11311]

Eh... but that's say 12 years on a drug conviction (and I'm assuming 12 years is a guess since I know depending on the specifics and even the judge and state laws drug sentences can vary wildly) vs life in prison without parole for murder. That's quite a gamble.


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Agreed, Aropizt such a good point. Additionally, IMO none of us here on WS, nor anyone else for that matter, can factually show that people facing 12 years would most definitely kill if seen, unless there are studies I am not aware of...so IMO the original blanket statement ought to be more of an opinion, than stated as fact. MOOoo


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[mandy.maree]

This case has consumed me due to Liberty German looking so much like my 13 year old daughter . When it first appeared on the news it brought me to tears .. liberty like my daughter had a stout but athletic build , not your first choice when seeking a victim which brings me to my analysis ... in my past I worked with sex offenders and was a corrections officer before receiving a degree in speech pathology specializing in voice disorders .. there is a point here.
IMO we need to focus on either someone the girls were familiar with or someone of authority .. my reasoning;
The perp knew he was going to be dealing with these two girls , I say this because in a crime of opportunity it would be to much of a liability to try to manipulate and control two victims and liberty looked like she could take care of herself.. the possibility of one of them getting away would be to great a risk.
As I listened to the recording im fairly certain I hear "go down the hill" phonetically =gadown the hill" im not hearing a plosive "t" as in "get down the hill" which would be a directive... its possible the initial contact may have seemed relatively safe to the girls but uneasy enough libby kept her phone recording. Could BG have been taking them to see something interesting or needed help. Either way Im convinced he knew the area and knew of the girls .. this is a smart man this was planned IMO.
My last thought .. I listened very closely to the recording and to recordings of RLs voice .. to me they are far from a match.. Id put my reputation on saying this is not RLs voice . The pitch and inflections are in no way similar

Thank you for your thoughts on the voice. I agree 100%

I believe this was preplanned also. BG went there that day with every intention of killing somebody. I dont believe for a second this is his first violent crime or the first time he has stalked an area.
I do however think he had a weapon to control them. Abby may have been walking a little bit behind Libby as she seemed to have been earlier on the bridge. BG may have rapidly approached causing Libby to film. She may have seen something on him that worried her. I think he may have grabbed Abby and this could be on film straight after the stills we have been shown.

Weapon or not-Libby would not have run off and left her friend it doesn't sound like.

I do not want to imagine what happened after this as I believe things escalated very rapidly after they were told to go down the hill.

Still hoping and praying LE are just waiting for that one piece of evidence/dna to come back to make an arrest..



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[Aropizt]

RL does not have a speach writer or editor.. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...berty-German-14-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-46/page5ff

I'm sorry, what? I'm not sure what you're saying or referring to and your link just took me to beginning of thread 46?


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[expatCanada]

Media was at the first search warrant served on W. Bicycle Bridge Road
http://fox59.com/2017/02/16/isp-ser...-with-deaths-of-delphi-teens-no-arrests-made/

In the initial reporting of the search warrant at RL's it was only one reporter there. All other search warrants were served with no reporting by media at all.

 

[Burnt Toast]

If LE does NOT know, or suspect, who the killer is by now, they may come to regret not releasing more info that may have helped to identify the man in the image.

i think they are not releasing any more because they don't need to. When was the last time LE has come out asking the public for tip and information?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I agree. I just don't really see this happening. There's studies and all (one or two have been linked in previous discussions here) linking drug abuse to violent crime but that's not so much about people seeing the person using (or buying or selling) but more that drugs alter people's judgement in all kinds of situations. I just don't see how some teenage girls would've been much of a threat and why kill them? And frankly do we really believe someone who decided right at the spur of the moment to murder two girls for catching them using could've pulled off this crime so well? And I still don't get how the BG video even factors into such a scenario.

I mean of course we can't rule it out since we know so very little but IMO I just don't see this as likely. Have any of you ever inadvertently caught someone buying, selling, or using drugs in a public place before? I have. Quite a few times honestly (from high school to festivals to street corners in shady parts of town). I'm still alive to tell the tale. I strongly doubt I'm the only commenter here who has seen this stuff either. Because yes, drug use is startlingly common. Which bears the point even beyond anecdotal evidence that as common as drug use is then, how often do we see two young girls murdered for inadvertently witnessing a drug related crime?

Anyway, just my opinion. But I really feel like the drug thing is stretching it. People accidentally see all kinds of stuff. Honestly these girls were so young there's a reasonable chance that even if they did accidentally see something they might not have even known what it was. I was their age, summer before my 9th grade year the first time I ever laid eyes on drugs of any kind and it was some girls in a summer school class I was taking. Blew my mind. And it was what I now know would've been a felony amount of marijuana, there was a lot of it. Had it been something else I can't even imagine how I'd have reacted at that age. Or if I'd have had any idea even what it was. Do we really think these girls would've recognized something like meth? Or do we think someone dealing something like marijuana would kill over it? Just wondering.


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Just to make a couple of points; you said yourself that studies show drugs alter peoples' judgement in all kinds of situations but then exclude the possibility of it happening with the girls. As for "why would they risk life in prison?" criminals mostly don't think about the consequences of their actions; they think they won't get caught.

It doesn't matter if the teens recognized whatever was going on; all that would matter is if the druggies thought they did.

Lastly, some thought it is plausible that a drunk RL went into a rage and killed those girls for trespassing on his property or petting his horses. So I'm not quite understanding why people are so opposed to the idea that maybe some strung-out drug addicts could kill the girls for sending them to jail.

This is all MOO. Hopefully we'll get the answers soon.

 

[lonetraveler]

:drink: :needdrink:

Thank God, I thought no one was ever going to ask who BG is again!

 

[Jethro4WS]

Quote Originally Posted by St. Anthony2017 View Post

It may be a female voice imo and that could be the twist.

From jethro -
"I agree strongly. My working theory if there is more than one perpetrator is that at least one of them is female."

Interesting... what leads you to believe a second perp would be female?

Well, here is my current thinking for a female in a multi-perpetrator scenario. Libby was concerned enough to start recording video. BG was quite a distance away. We have gotten to see a clipped and enlarged (effectively zoomed plus some other adjustments) view of BG. Libby and possibly Abby would have seen him differently and certainly not as well as we see in those not so good images. There isn't any indication of anything in BG's possession threatening the girls from that distance - not in his hands for sure since we can't even see them. Also, if Libby was concerned enough to start a video I would think that level of concern would be enough to make them want to get out of there. Yet, that does not appear to be what happened. For some reason the girls could not get out of where they were.

So, my working theory is that there were one or more perpetrators near or behind the girls and that meant they were effectively, if not actually, trapped in place. If there were another perpetrator and it was a lone male that was near or behind the girls that would likely be enough to raise the concern to start recording. But, given that there aren't dense woods in the immediate area of where the girls were (per GH) at the south end of the bridge and no leaves or foliage then their view of the immediate area would be pretty good so it would not be as if someone could easily sneak up on them. However, if that other person were a lone female or a male/female couple then that might not raise the alarm that caused Libby to start recording until something started happening closer to the girls. Either way, I believe something occurred prior to BG getting anywhere close to the girls and that is what caused LIbby to start recording.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

Quote Originally Posted by St. Anthony2017 View Post

It may be a female voice imo and that could be the twist.

From jethro -
"I agree strongly. My working theory if there is more than one perpetrator is that at least one of them is female."

Interesting... what leads you to believe a second perp would be female?

Just moo because of the twist mentioned and a young woman would be less intimidating to the girls. I believe we will find out something soon. The killer may be smart but LE is much smarter!!

 

[otto]

Not if the 2nd person(s) were not on the bridge. One of my theories about the voice is that while Libby was filming BG on the bridge 80 ft away, the voice came from near or behind her, from someone closer to the phone. (It happens all the time we I am taking a video of my son playing baseball.) I think BG's role as we see him on the bridge was rounding them up, blocking their escape and that later he participated in murdering them. They only needed one person to go out on the bridge and force them off.

The photo is from before the suspect interfered with the children, so there's a reason that they videotaped him. He did something, said something, was dressed oddly, or somehow got their attention before they were in trouble.

If there were two suspects, the girl who was already at the end of the bridge with the camera would have seen that second suspect (I'm assuming that a second suspect would be right there, not on the other side of the creek).

 

[lonetraveler]

i think they are not releasing any more because they don't need to. When was the last time LE has come out asking the public for tip and information?

You have no idea how much I hope you are correct.

 

[otto]

I am convinced that the man who did this came home with damp, stinky socks that day, and I'm convinced that he made some excuse for his shoes ... perhaps he bought new ones, perhaps he put them in the dryer ... either way, I think he had wet feet at the end of the day.

Is there no one who's partner companion came home with something about his socks and shoes? Maybe new ones?

There is no way that the suspect murdered the children without having some trace of having walked through a creek especially given that his pants were not tucked in boots during the abduction.

Someone knows someone who had a problem with socks / shoes that day.

 

[shrimplegs99]

If this is drug-related, I think it could be related to vengeance, if perp(s) were previously affected by a 'snitch' who was close to the girls. MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

Gee great job coppers! A poor grampaw is forced by our justice system to serve hard time for his alcoholic addiction. This investigation was supposed to bring the vicious killer of ABBY and LIBBY to justice, not waste valuable resources on convicting a sickly old grampaw.

So this is what happens to innocent folks who want to help the police, media in a double homicide. Good luck getting any tips from BG's family or friends in identifying him. A bungled investigation from the start. Hes gonna lose his home, lovely horses, and his reputation over this. 4 freakin years!!

Casey anthony got less time. Im almost in tears over this poor mans fate. Im sorry if i offended anybody, but in my honest opinion the cops have no idea who the killer is.

Further to your thoughts, I've been reading some of the initial media reports from almost two months ago. Considering the amount of time that's passed from the early optimistic days of LE almost ready to nail the case shut, now I can't quite shirk an uneasy feeling about the unexpected direction this case has taken although I'd be delighted to be wrong.

Contrary to the time that's passed, I notice that RL is still very much an unofficial suspect according to SM. While LE continue to stress he's not a suspect, at the same time current events are keeping his name in the media spotlight. As he's now locked up for 3 1/2 years, considering his age and that's he's already over the hill in terms of male life expectancy, he could die before his release.

What I don't want to think about, is this a roundabout way of conveniently closing a potentially unsolvable case? Are folks in and around Delphi satisfied that RL is behind bars for whatever reason it may be? The next election is undoubtedly within the next 3 1/2 years. A few posters here have questioned the rational for locking someone up that truly requires an stringent rehab program considering it's well established that incarceration does not cure addiction and I strongly agree.

All that has left me wondering, hoping it's not what it's beginning to appear.

 

[Bemused]

Further to your thoughts, I've been reading some of the initial media reports from almost two months ago. Considering the amount of time that's passed from the early optimistic days of LE almost ready to nail the case shut, now I can't quite shirk an uneasy feeling about the unexpected direction this case has taken although I'd be delighted to be wrong.

Contrary to the time that's passed, I notice that RL is still very much an unofficial suspect according to SM. While LE continue to stress he's not a suspect, at the same time current events are keeping his name in the media spotlight. As he's now locked up for 3 1/2 years, considering his age and that's he's already over the hill in terms of male life expectancy, he could die before his release.

What I don't want to think about, is this a roundabout way of conveniently closing a potentially unsolvable case? Are folks in and around Delphi satisfied that RL is behind bars for whatever reason it may be? The next election is undoubtedly within the next 3 1/2 years. A few posters here have questioned the rational for locking someone up that truly requires an stringent rehab program considering it's well established that incarceration does not cure addiction and I strongly agree.

All that has left me wondering, hoping it's not what it's beginning to appear.

I do not want to misunderstand you, but are you saying you think LE is somehow framing an innocent man because they can't solve the case? TIA

 

[Deleted member 718]

If LE does NOT know, or suspect, who the killer is by now, they may come to regret not releasing more info that may have helped to identify the man in the image.

Agreed Clu. March 2016 little Shaylene Ammerman was murdered in Indiana. What LE disclosed as to her COD is completely different than we are hearing here. LE gave full graphic details as to how she was killed. I am positive the officers who found her have the same heartbreaking nightmares as the Carroll County officers. What could be the difference now?

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...arged-rape-murder-1-year-olds-death/82336526/

"More than 30 hours later, Shaylyn's body would be found next to a tree in an isolated, rural patch of land where the White River and Indian Creek meet, just outside of Gosport. She was suffocated, an autopsy showed, and badly bruised.

It was the "worst case of sexual trauma" forensic pathologist Donna Stewart had seen in her career. Stewart, who conducted the autopsy in Louisville, Ky., specializes in pediatric autopsies with sexual battery and molestation.

Shaylyn had "numerous very apparent injuries sustained in a sexual assault," the autopsy found, according to an affidavit filed Monday."

 

[ocgrad]

Agreed. Seems to me they don't have video of him speaking so they can't be sure. But if they had 2 voices they would know 2 '.

I don't believe they have said they didn't know if there was more than one, only that they would not comment on it.

 

[alexwood]

At least RL has some neighbors who care about him...glad to see that. Hope they are making sure his animals have new homes. I am feeling sad for his little dog.

As far as the investigation...does not sound promising right now.

I'm feeling sad for both of them, Cluciano.