IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #48

[Bemused]

They had been instructed to stay away from the area where the girls had last been seen because search dogs were out. Authorities told volunteers they didn’t want to chance contaminating the scene.

http://www.pharostribune.com/news/local_news/article_031b521c-f2e3-11e6-a249-a77587cb24f9.html


Soooooo my question is if searchers were told to stay out of the area the girls were missing from how is it a neighbor found them?

They were found at least 1/4 to 3/4 mile away from where they were last seen and on private property. Nothing nefarious to that in the slightest, and I'm sure LE has put the volunteer under a very thorough microscopic examination.

 

[whiskers]

I'll have to go digging for the link (pretty sure I posted it about 20 threads ago) but I'm sure that the FBI presence during the search on the 13th was one local volunteer searcher who happened to work for the FBI. Guess I'll start digging...

No need to dig...at least not for me. Thank you for that tidbit then. It explains how someone FBI related was present so fast.

 

[AnnD]

Lots of good points people are making and thankful we have such caring people wanting to be sure the BG is prosecuted.

JMO
One thing I dont understand in this case is why LE would not at least release the video portion of the BG on the bridge at least up until that last clip of him we do already see.

It would not harm the case anymore than what we already have seen. It would just give us a few moving fames so we may be able to see the walking gait.

More importantly though it may help to see the video to be able to identify the perp better.

The stills are blurry as we all know and the video is probably blurry too but just like we have done with the stills there are free off the shelf tools that can be done to enhance the video on our own and someone may gain a vital clue to maybe make a positive ID on someone.

I struggle to see how it can harm the investigation in any way because we already see the latest frame. So if they just back up the video and give us the moving parts all the way to that point there is no more harm that could possibly be done to the investigation at all.

I just dont get it. I was a big fan of our passed Foxfire and if I remember right he also felt that the public was a great asset that is under utilized by LE because of old strategies that are clung onto.

I firmly believe that some of the older strategies are just being hung onto because people just have always done things a certain way and keeping things close to the vest is fine when there is a good reason to do it.

I think the problem we have is people just cling onto some of those strategies when there really is no reason to. They do not ask the tough questions of themselves and really think through it. Is there any real harm in releasing the moving parts of what we have already seen?

IMO Absolutely not and it cannot possibly harm the case and can only help us find the BG. In fact I would be willing to bet there is much more of the video that could be released and edited to block out any parts that may be too graphic or disturbing without jeopardizing the case.
And if not that then I am sure there are some more spoken words that could be released to us so we can identify his vocal speech and maybe realize "Hey that is John Smith" talking.

The goal would be to give the public more so that the public can help LE. We are here to help them. Not hurt them or hurt the investigation.
We dont want to jeopardize anything and I dont think it will if it is carefully thought through what parts we can see.

Sorry. Rant over.

It just bothers me so much because I think we can help them more if we are allowed just a few more key breadcrumbs.

Once he is behind bars then LE should be able to match him up by his DNA and hopefully some DNA was found on the bodies or some article of clothing at the scene. The immediate problem at hand is to first identify him and get him to LE. I think we can help more if given more.

The only other reason is if LE already knows who he is and doesnt need our help anymore then that could explain why nothing else has been released to help us help them.

I think the rant is really over this time. LOL

I totally agree and I just keep thinking they are waiting to do just that after a certain amount of time without an arrest has passed.


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[Hatfield]

The only reason I can come up with that more of the video has not been released is that it's horrific.

If he pulls a weapon on them seconds after that image then it's also about the family and there feelings.

I agree that could be part of the reason but I am willing to bet LE could work with the family and get a release signed because I am pretty sure they want the BG prosecuted too.

Plus some editing and black out could be done to help out.

Releases are signed all the time for certain things shown to the public.

This may not be a good example but if anyone has ever seen Taxicab Confessions. When watching it you would think nobody would ever allow some of the stuff to be on the aired footage until you see the end of the show when the people willingly sign the release forms at the end. A lot of them are thrilled to sign the release forms.

In this case the need to identify and prosecute the BG may be enough to tilt the scales to willingly allow some footage that you ordinarily would not want to allow.

 

[finine]

Anyone with link to more then one encounter?

I swear I've heard this before also but looked high and low earlier today and could only find it "theorized" by a poster in thread #12. So mabye I imagined that LE said it...or maybe it's in one of the untranscribed press conferences (I only listed to the very first one, before the girls were even identified).

 

[Crimeariver]

the guy on the right looks like "BG"

Agreed, very much. Imo

 

[otto]

Lots of good points people are making and thankful we have such caring people wanting to be sure the BG is prosecuted.

JMO
One thing I dont understand in this case is why LE would not at least release the video portion of the BG on the bridge at least up until that last clip of him we do already see.

It would not harm the case anymore than what we already have seen. It would just give us a few moving fames so we may be able to see the walking gait.

More importantly though it may help to see the video to be able to identify the perp better.

The stills are blurry as we all know and the video is probably blurry too but just like we have done with the stills there are free off the shelf tools that can be done to enhance the video on our own and someone may gain a vital clue to maybe make a positive ID on someone.

I struggle to see how it can harm the investigation in any way because we already see the latest frame. So if they just back up the video and give us the moving parts all the way to that point there is no more harm that could possibly be done to the investigation at all.

I just dont get it. I was a big fan of our passed Foxfire and if I remember right he also felt that the public was a great asset that is under utilized by LE because of old strategies that are clung onto.

I firmly believe that some of the older strategies are just being hung onto because people just have always done things a certain way and keeping things close to the vest is fine when there is a good reason to do it.

I think the problem we have is people just cling onto some of those strategies when there really is no reason to. They do not ask the tough questions of themselves and really think through it. Is there any real harm in releasing the moving parts of what we have already seen?

IMO Absolutely not and it cannot possibly harm the case and can only help us find the BG. In fact I would be willing to bet there is much more of the video that could be released and edited to block out any parts that may be too graphic or disturbing without jeopardizing the case.
And if not that then I am sure there are some more spoken words that could be released to us so we can identify his vocal speech and maybe realize "Hey that is John Smith" talking.

The goal would be to give the public more so that the public can help LE. We are here to help them. Not hurt them or hurt the investigation.
We dont want to jeopardize anything and I dont think it will if it is carefully thought through what parts we can see.

Sorry. Rant over.

It just bothers me so much because I think we can help them more if we are allowed just a few more key breadcrumbs.

Once he is behind bars then LE should be able to match him up by his DNA and hopefully some DNA was found on the bodies or some article of clothing at the scene. The immediate problem at hand is to first identify him and get him to LE. I think we can help more if given more.

The only other reason is if LE already knows who he is and doesnt need our help anymore then that could explain why nothing else has been released to help us help them.

I think the rant is really over this time. LOL

It's not uncommon for the public to think that they are as capable of investigating murders as those who are trained to do the job.

There was a reason for releasing a still from the video, and a clip from the audio. What we need to keep in mind is that this suspect is a predator who is very likely threatening both in action and in what he says. I think it would scare people if they, for example, saw the suspect running towards the children, pulling a gun out of his pocket, and verbally threatening the children, and I'm not convinced that it would help with the identification. In fact, I think people might be overcome by the violence of the situation and be unable to take the suspect out of that role and view him as a neighbour, friend, or family member. Portraying the suspect as a still image with an audio clip keeps the information about the suspect neutral, and that it probably more important when asking people if they recognize the suspect as someone they know from their day to day lives.

 

[ab01]

Lots of good points people are making and thankful we have such caring people wanting to be sure the BG is prosecuted.

JMO
One thing I dont understand in this case is why LE would not at least release the video portion of the BG on the bridge at least up until that last clip of him we do already see.

It would not harm the case anymore than what we already have seen. It would just give us a few moving fames so we may be able to see the walking gait.

More importantly though it may help to see the video to be able to identify the perp better.

The stills are blurry as we all know and the video is probably blurry too but just like we have done with the stills there are free off the shelf tools that can be done to enhance the video on our own and someone may gain a vital clue to maybe make a positive ID on someone.

I struggle to see how it can harm the investigation in any way because we already see the latest frame. So if they just back up the video and give us the moving parts all the way to that point there is no more harm that could possibly be done to the investigation at all.

I just dont get it. I was a big fan of our passed Foxfire and if I remember right he also felt that the public was a great asset that is under utilized by LE because of old strategies that are clung onto.

I firmly believe that some of the older strategies are just being hung onto because people just have always done things a certain way and keeping things close to the vest is fine when there is a good reason to do it.

I think the problem we have is people just cling onto some of those strategies when there really is no reason to. They do not ask the tough questions of themselves and really think through it. Is there any real harm in releasing the moving parts of what we have already seen?

IMO Absolutely not and it cannot possibly harm the case and can only help us find the BG. In fact I would be willing to bet there is much more of the video that could be released and edited to block out any parts that may be too graphic or disturbing without jeopardizing the case.
And if not that then I am sure there are some more spoken words that could be released to us so we can identify his vocal speech and maybe realize "Hey that is John Smith" talking.

The goal would be to give the public more so that the public can help LE. We are here to help them. Not hurt them or hurt the investigation.
We dont want to jeopardize anything and I dont think it will if it is carefully thought through what parts we can see.

Sorry. Rant over.

It just bothers me so much because I think we can help them more if we are allowed just a few more key breadcrumbs.

Once he is behind bars then LE should be able to match him up by his DNA and hopefully some DNA was found on the bodies or some article of clothing at the scene. The immediate problem at hand is to first identify him and get him to LE. I think we can help more if given more.

The only other reason is if LE already knows who he is and doesnt need our help anymore then that could explain why nothing else has been released to help us help them.

I think the rant is really over this time. LOL

Good observations, I'm fairly confident if LE thought they had something that they could release that would help the public to identify BG they would do it. Nobody, other than the girls family and friends wants to catch this guy more than LE does! This I can guarantee you! They know much more than we do and I for one think they probably have their reasons for what they do and don't release. JMO


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[Eileen730]

So anyone in baggy jeans a hoodie and blue jacket looks like the bridge dude?

 

[Bemused]

Agreed, very much. Imo

The face? I don't know if that's my own brothers or father from the face. I can discount it mostly due to the body and the unique set to his head and hands. YMMV

 

[haven71]

I've always thought since the beginning that BG looks like he is trying to make himself both stand out less and look less threatening.

 

[rilesp23]

Which guy is this? Sorry.

Agreed, very much. Imo

 

[Boxeador]

The thing that standsout is that you can see right into the woods.
JMO, but it looks like the crime scene would be visible if a walker looking east from the north end of the bridge.

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

Anyone with link to more then one encounter?

I wish I was able to search right now but I am having connectivity problems still..but there is a news station interview with a father in the community who mentioned his daughter uses the trail frequently and had had more than one unnerving encounter with creeps. I cannot recall exactly how he worded it but it eluded to the fact that apparently some unsavory types often were around the trail system area. I hope his daughter was interviewed by LE thoroughly for descriptions of these men who had bothered her previously.

 

[ab01]

So anyone in baggy jeans a hoodie and blue jacket looks like the bridge dude?

Yep that's pretty much it....reminds me of swatperp in the missy bevers case. Other than the clothing not many identifying features can be made out. And in that case there is a video that was released to the public....fwiw


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[Peace777]

So anyone in baggy jeans a hoodie and blue jacket looks like the bridge dude?

No but one never knows. Don't forget the perp or perps likely didn't know a video or picture existed on Libby's phone correct? Just sleuthing and things that make me go huh? Not accusing anyone in that news report picture of anything. All Jmo

 

[Hatfield]

Good observations, I'm fairly confident if LE thought they had something that they could release that would help the public to identify BG they would do it. Nobody, other than the girls family and friends wants to catch this guy more than LE does! This I can guarantee you! They know much more than we do and I for one think they probably have their reasons for what they do and don't release. JMO


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You could be right. I would love to work more closer with LE and get some of their reasoning behind some of the decisions they make.
I think it would probably answer a lot of questions.

The problem I have is since they elect to not tell us hardly anything at all and not give us more to help them then the questions keep coming up.

In past cases when they gave media interviews on the status of cases those helped a lot because it gave the media a chance to ask some of the questions we have been asking.

 

[No it's not]

RL Court Summary, recent HTO case:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3g3DEap84xwcFFiN01YeXlKZ1E/view?usp=sharing

https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase/#/vw/Search

 

[Bemused]

You could be right. I would love to work more closer with LE and get some of their reasoning behind some of the decisions they make.
I think it would probably answer a lot of questions.

The problem I have is since they elect to not tell us hardly anything at all and not give us more to help them then the questions keep coming up.

In past cases when they gave media interviews on the status of cases those helped a lot because it gave the media a chance to ask some of the questions we have been asking.

I have worked with more LEOs than I can remember and one thing I've learned is they'll ask when they need help, and they tend to remain silent to outsiders, even when they're working with them, when they don't. I respected them as colleagues of sorts so I never wanted to make them feel uncomfortable or put them in an awkward position by asking for more. They will ask if and when they need help from the public. I personally find all the "if LE would only do x, y, or z" statements tiresome because I watched their press conferences and these men and women want this guy's head on a pike. IMO

 

[jillycat]

I agree that could be part of the reason but I am willing to bet LE could work with the family and get a release signed because I am pretty sure they want the BG prosecuted too.

Plus some editing and black out could be done to help out.

Releases are signed all the time for certain things shown to the public.

This may not be a good example but if anyone has ever seen Taxicab Confessions. When watching it you would think nobody would ever allow some of the stuff to be on the aired footage until you see the end of the show when the people willingly sign the release forms at the end. A lot of them are thrilled to sign the release forms.

In this case the need to identify and prosecute the BG may be enough to tilt the scales to willingly allow some footage that you ordinarily would not want to allow.

That phone or the info taken from it are in evidence so I doubt that the family has any say in what's released or not. I can't imagine that they had a voice in what was already released or the disclosure that it's from Liberty's phone.

I agree that it might help for the public to see more, but it might be too disturbing and/or affect parts of their case they can't afford to reveal. No idea. Frankly, I think it's probably pretty disturbing.