IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #50

[kat913]

I know I have to let this go....but I cannot get over the mirror image...what are the astronomical odds of that occuring. There is a math problem for it I am sure!!


But 7.13.12 and 2.13.17 is too odd for me!!

 

[otto]

I don't know...why would they have asked if someone saw a hitchhiker? Not a very common 1st idea I don't think? Usually would ask about vehicles...not hitchhikers? MOO

The only place where I have read any suggestion that the suspect walked or hitch-hiked on his way to murder two girls in a remote Indiana park is here.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Or determined exactly how truthful the witnesses were.

My thoughts too - I was about to say the same. Seems a lot of people interviewed have lied about things based on LE comments. Hence 70 warrants and subpoenas. (15 SW and 55 SP IIRC). Is that high number normal? I do find that quite unexplainable TBF.

 

[WebSight]

Excellent thoughts/points by you both...but LE couldn’t have totally missed something so trivial. Right? :thinking:

No, I am sure you are right. I suppose LE has a way to verify that the photo was actually taken, loaded and sent right away? Of course if they have that ability to confirm then no need to question the timestamp. My daughter, who has not been involved in this case one iota and still has not even seen one picture, was happy to chat about it, as you probably know. She kind of feels that the perp used the phone to his advantage. She would probably not know, nor would I have, that LE could determine a definite time.

See, that is what is so great about having this forum. We can have our ideas and theories and then someone can help us expand on them or point us in a new direction! Thx Reggie!

 

[otto]

Because the witnesses that day didn't see any strange cars or LE was able to match cars to people hiking? He was either on foot, hitchiked, hopped a freight train, or stole a car undetected. We don't know what witnesses may have observed and told investigators in interviews.

OR ... he parked at the cemetery and was not on the trails except at the SE end of the bridge.

 

[Ghosthunter]

When I try to understand something like this, I don't immediately search sex offenders in the area. My instinct is to understand the crime scene and how the suspect moved through the crime scene. In this case, the crime scene extends from the North entrance of the park to the cemetery, and the SE end of the bridge. My next curiosity is how he would have looked after committing the murders. I think he had wet feet.

If this is the same suspect, I have to wonder why there's a 20 mile distance between abduction and bodies in 2012, and less than a mile between abduction and bodies in 2017. Got away with it, getting careless, doing it closer to home, giving more away by accident?

Great points! Do you think bg may be a serial killer? I think he may be a SK due to his comfort level in abducting 2victims and in broad daylight. Your thoughts?

 

[Shiressleuth]

I know I have to let this go....but I cannot get over the mirror image...what are the astronomical odds of that occuring. There is a math problem for it I am sure!!


But 7.13.12 and 2.13.17 is too odd for me!!

I wonder if the MS13 could indeed have any connection here as mentioned in the last thread?

 

[expatCanada]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/29458...eving-grandfather-pays-heartbreaking-tribute/

"We are actually expanding out," Riley said. "We want people who may have seen somebody walking, that may have picked up a hitchhiker, that may have seen a hitchhiker around that afternoon."
and here:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...g-road-near-delphi-police-want-to-talk-to-you

Video has the exact words from LE

The only place where I have read any suggestion that the suspect walked or hitch-hiked on his way to murder two girls in a remote Indiana park is here.

 

[otto]

I personally don't think the video was very long before it just went to audio as L likely put it in her pocket to continue recording sound only . I think the last seen time stamp could be when that shift to audio only may have happened. And it is the audio that has captured the'criminal activity' be that abduction by vehicle or being taken 'down the hill' to the creek. MOO.

The timestamps we have are a photo of Libby on the tracks, with the camera facing the NW, and the there is evidence of the suspect as late as 2:30 (e.g.: audio clip). I think we have all been thinking that the part of the clip that is missing is the ending, but maybe it's from what was said and what happened leading up to the order that they go "down the hill".

 

[Burnt Toast]

Suggest you contact ISP with this. Great idea!

who would pay for all of these tests if every mother in indiana and beyond would line up?

 

[otto]

I know I have to let this go....but I cannot get over the mirror image...what are the astronomical odds of that occuring. There is a math problem for it I am sure!!


But 7.13.12 and 2.13.17 is too odd for me!!

Could be! Some people have a peculiar number obsession.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Maybe the audio clip is from 2:30. Maybe he came up from under the bridge and after walking a short distance, turned around and made friendly conversation with the girls - to obtain information about how their day was going, and then switched to "down the hill".

That would suggest that 23 minutes after the photo was taken of Abby on the tracks (and no suspect in sight), the suspect had successfully abducted them and was ordering them to go down the hill on the SE end of the bridge (towards the private driveway). They were found on the opposite side of the creek, and I'm pretty sure he didn't carry them there. They walked. I don't believe that a vehicle was parked on a private driveway during the abduction and murder of two girls on a Monday afternoon in February.

Perhaps he was going to take them up to his car at the cemetary but the next people on the bridge disturbed him so he just left them. JMO.

 

[Bemused]

OR ... he parked at the cemetery and was not on the trails except at the SE end of the bridge.

I've seen Nin's great picture but is the cemetery that remote? Does it have a regular caretaker? Was anyone visiting the grave of a loved one? What is on the opposite side of the cemetery on the other side?

 

[her]

I think another route to look at this is past crimes in Delphi. When was the last murder in that town or better yet double homicide?

 

[otto]

Great points! Do you think bg may be a serial killer? I think he may be a SK due to his comfort level in abducting 2victims and in broad daylight. Your thoughts?

Absolutely! That he can manage two young teen girls, one of whom is 200 pounds and athletic, suggests he has some confidence and authority in that situation. As long as sexual assault has not been officially ruled out, as far as I'm concerned it is the only motive on the table.

 

[otto]

I wonder if the MS13 could indeed have any connection here as mentioned in the last thread?

What is MS13?

 

[KyMom]

I wonder if the MS13 could indeed have any connection here as mentioned in the last thread?

.
I don't want to rule it out, but BG doesn't look to me to be someone who'd be in a gang, esp MS-13. I've seen a number of pics and footage of that gang, we've even had some of them in a few towns here who've been arrested and he just doesn't look like he'd be in with them. Of course, I could be wrong.

jmo

 

[Jabarn]

Great points! Do you think bg may be a serial killer? I think he may be a SK due to his comfort level in abducting 2victims and in broad daylight. Your thoughts?

I know you were replying to Otto, but wanted to reply.

Clearly, the BG is disturbed. IMO, he could already be a SK, or BG is a fledgling SK. He has gotten so lucky either way, because this was a cold, outright evil and brazen attack with so many opportunities to be caught in the act, as many sleuthers here have pointed out.

This act of brazenness, the cruelness of it, if not a SK, then I lean toward a revenge killing. Someone cold and dark, who knew the girls would be there, and the motive was punishment for one or both. I have not seen any evidence either girl had enemies, but who knows for sure.

So we keep going around and around with trying to understand why.

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

I wonder, and this is more in response to your other post about the river/creek being important...I wonder if (assuming this might be the same killer) he chooses to be close to the river so he can clean up/wash away evidence, or to help muffle sound, or maybe both? I suppose sometimes we find that these individuals have some weird hangup on a particular memory or experience that they are trying to relive, or destroy, or whatever. In the Iowa case, there was at least one MSM article where a relative claimed that that abduction/murder was due to a relative's actions surrounding drug involvement, also.

It's the very same thing here. The road that goes under the Monon Bridge leads to a private residence, and where they went down the hill might have been visible from the house - depending on tree foliage. The Iowa girls were found a short walk (maybe 1/4 mile) from a turn-around dead-end road. They were found by chance when hunters nearly missed them as they were walking within feet of their remains.

 

[Bemused]

I know I have to let this go....but I cannot get over the mirror image...what are the astronomical odds of that occuring. There is a math problem for it I am sure!!


But 7.13.12 and 2.13.17 is too odd for me!!

Sometimes a coincidence is just a coincidence.